Should Canada unhitch its American wagon?

Zzarchov

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Canada will always remain close to America, simply because Canadians are by and large Identical to Americans in Culture. Oh there are minor differences in history and things that don't come up in day to day life very often... but we watch the same TV, eat the same food, listen to the same music and can generally be transplanted to the other country for long periods of time without really noticing a change (more so than we would between regions in our own nation).

As someone from Ontario, I have more in common with someone from Northern New York than I do with someone from Newfoundland.
 

Zzarchov

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Side note: MikeyDB, your problem seems to stem from the inability to see the problems with simple human limitations.

We have corrupt governments because all large groups of people have corruption. People who work at McDonalds who get their friend a job are corrupt (using your influence with the swing manager to get your friend hired over a more compentant applicant).

So as long as things are reasonable, and life is good and stable (which it is) why should we have radical shifts into unknown waters that not only rockthe boat, but risk capsizing it? For what, Moral indignation that will be proven useless in 20 minutes after another governing body sets in? Corruption is always present, the only issue is if its rampant or managable.
 

MikeyDB

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Zzarchov

Ever bought a book? Check out the price for that book in Canada and the price for that book in America.... Still got this warm feeling for your identification with the folk in New York State?

Even when our dollar is worth as much if not more than the American dollar...getting ripped off in Canada is a way of life....a way of life Canadians accept as "normal".
 

Zzarchov

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Oh of course, its the hates Canada tax, and I applaud all retailers who try and pull it off.

Part of it, is that even though our dollar is worth more .. our staff are paid more. That person selling you the book, isn't free. And they are paid more than an American clerk.

Even still it does get out of hand and I still salute any retailer who can pull it off. Because as I do when I see instances where its blatant, I just either forgo purchasing it..or if I need it, purchase it from the USA cheaper.

Thus the US dollar slowly (if everyone does this) goes up in price, and the Canadian dollar goes down, and things return to normal.

Or, the Canadian sellers change their price, and I return to purchasing Canadian.
 

MikeyDB

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Zzarchov

So you're suggesting that we simply give up...? "It's the nature of who and what we are to accept that injustice reigns supreme..."

Let's take the vote away from women...hell it can't be all that important...

Let's let the Roman Catholic Chuch bugger our children and hide their malfeaseance ....

Let's accept that our politicians will steal billions from us while mismanageing the future of our society and ladling debt on our unborn children...

Yeah let's all pretend that everything is just fine...!

It's our "nature" to embrace corruption...because corruption begins at home...and we wouldn't want to have to be faced with making choices about our own corruption now would we!

Great argument.
 

MikeyDB

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Once again applauding theft!

You're a prince of a fellow! Everyone is free to steal from everyone else and gain your respect and your admiration.

Are you a member of Stormfront...?
 

Zzarchov

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Theft? You mean free will and the ability to live your life and make your own choices good or ill with out some self-righteous loon trying to be your dictator/nanny?

You whats a lie? When you try and say "marketing is the same as lying" by MARKETING YOUR OWN OPINION TO OTHERS.

I mean seriously, I think someone needs to gain a perspective on life and where his or her own power to rule the lives of others ends.

If I want to buy a status symbol and "waste my money".. screw you, its my money, I laboured for it and I can do as I see fit with it.
 

MikeyDB

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Zzarchov

You worked for your money and you think you have rights...but people who are preyed-upon by the corporations and indsutries that built this morass of corruption they...well they don't have rights now do they..?

Mr.Zzarchov

"It is the noblest affirmation of "free-will" that some will suffer greatly for my comfort and my prosperity". It is the legacy they have created for themselves through their failure to stand up for themselves." "It is the predator and the con-man who represent the greater morality through divesting humanity of the plague of the concept of shared-responsibility."

Wonderful ethos.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Praxius

I didn't put that little Canadian flag there.

Well you're fully able to switch it to something else.... maybe Botswana?

And I'm sorry you're uncomfortable with the reality that CAnadians don't think and havent for a very long time.

Sorry, your reality is not in phase with my own.

How do you think successive corrupt governments have been elected in this country?

LIberals and Conservatives? The same way the Republicans and Democrats do..... so if we don't think and the above is the end result, then the US must not think either. Then again, this occurs in every country.... the UK, Australia, etc.... so I guess none of them know how to think either.

But then again, I have never voted Liberal or Conservative in my life.... so by that reasoning, I guess I think after all.

Why do you think that Canadians aren't buying Candian produced goods but flocking to buy junk at Home Depot and Walmart that's produced in third world nations?

Because we're poor?

I dunno.... I don't shop at either of those stores. I buy what I need, when I need it. I don't splurge or buy something based on it's brand name or where it came from or its price.

Why do you suppose there are line-ups around Timmy's to gulp down a coffee that's been provided by slave-wages in fields far from you cozy community?

Don't honestly care.... I don't drink or eat at Tim Hortons, so once again, your generalizing doesn't apply to me yet again. Also.... where is our country different in these aspects compared to any other country one can choose out there which does similar or the exact same?

But then again.... if I was to "Think" about the question, People generally goto Tim's for their cheap coffee, because it's #1 - Cheap and #2 - People need a cafine fix for the morning..... oh... #3 - People are addicted to cafine and perhaps the nicotine they slipped in there a few years back.

Why do you suppose it's accepted by Canadians that twenty-two years later the monkey-farts that call themselves CSIS and the RCMP fall all over each other avoiding the issues of their entrenched incompetence and failures...from Air India to Mayerthorpe to pension fund fraud etc. etc. etc....

It's not accepted, but the difference is people need to know what they can do in these matters. If the organizations set out there to protect and inform us are not protecting and informing us.... then we should be firing asses left and right until we get answers..... meh.... jail some too while we're at it, make examples.

If there is nothing we can do in the existing form of government, then we make a new government that does.

How do you accept that year after year Canadians are content to live with escalating costs for everything while Americans hold us to "agreements" they're willing to break in a heart-beat and gouge us all at the gas pumps buying gasoline made from oil they purchased from Alberta?

I never said I was content with this way of life and escalating costs, have you even read any of my posts in regards to that and the solutions I presented?

The above is also why I have been saying in here that we should be cutting from the US. In fact, I've been saying this for years, long before I came to these forums, that's for sure.

Action and Response..... if you want to be taken seriously in markets or just internationally as a strong nation, then you must not be scared of taking action and holding people responsible for their own. If the US is screwing us over, if they are backing out of agreements and contracts, if they are taking more from us then we are getting from them, then that is their action and thus, we should have a response..... the response would be punishment for such violations and restrict further trade and interaction until those attitudes and actions are resolved/corrected.

Canadians are stupid Paxius because they're unwilling to take a stand on anything. They're sheep who embrace their ignorance.

As Bender once said "You don't see me not complaining."

You don't see me hiding away or sitting on the fence on topics here do ya? I present solutions as well as complaints, regardless on how foolish or crazy those solutions may sound.... at least they're something.

Unwilling to take a stand on anything? Sheep who embrace their own ignorance? There is one Canadian Trait I'll admit I see in these forums a lot.....

The constant complaining about everything that's wrong in the world and yet presenting no solutions to the problem..... just complaining. Case in point: You complaining about Canadians, yet produce no solutions to the problem..... you just moan about it.

Stop stating to me the obvious or what you think is right and wrong, and present solutions to the obvious. That's the problem with Canada, if anything.... We'll state the obvious and complain, but bicker too much about the problem and what it exactly is, and we forget to find a solution/resolution when we're all done with it......

I think we all just smoke too much pot.
 

Praxius

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Oh of course, its the hates Canada tax, and I applaud all retailers who try and pull it off.

Part of it, is that even though our dollar is worth more .. our staff are paid more. That person selling you the book, isn't free. And they are paid more than an American clerk.

Even still it does get out of hand and I still salute any retailer who can pull it off. Because as I do when I see instances where its blatant, I just either forgo purchasing it..or if I need it, purchase it from the USA cheaper.

Thus the US dollar slowly (if everyone does this) goes up in price, and the Canadian dollar goes down, and things return to normal.

Or, the Canadian sellers change their price, and I return to purchasing Canadian.

Don't forget about US-Made books and such having to cover shipping costs to Canada.... and with oil prices and such, I'm not suprised the prices haven't increased actually.
 

MikeyDB

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Praxius

Ok you're not affected nor influenced by what's happening around you...right?

And this may come as a shock to you but I've said many times on this site and others that Canadians need to stop playing the game....

But you can't convince a Canadian of anything unless its the wisdom of listening to Don Cherry and selectively ignoring dynamics around them when they want to feel insulated from the outcomes of their decisions. You'd probably find it difficult to believe that the World Trade Center in New York City was destroyed by people who thought a great deal like you.

It doesn't matter what I do or what I think.... I've allowed my future and my families futures to be determined by people who don't even live on the same continent as me....

While I can't reasonably expect them to be available to a reasoned dialogue their example has been to launch cruise missiles and invade nations around the world so I should follow their example and close my mind to anything I don't like or understand....
 

Praxius

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Zzarchov

So you're suggesting that we simply give up...? "It's the nature of who and what we are to accept that injustice reigns supreme..."

Let's take the vote away from women...hell it can't be all that important...

Let's let the Roman Catholic Chuch bugger our children and hide their malfeaseance ....

Let's accept that our politicians will steal billions from us while mismanageing the future of our society and ladling debt on our unborn children...

Yeah let's all pretend that everything is just fine...!

It's our "nature" to embrace corruption...because corruption begins at home...and we wouldn't want to have to be faced with making choices about our own corruption now would we!

Great argument.

Well that sort of matches what you are presenting.... I mean, we apparently don't think... so if we don't think... why not just give up?

If we were truly sheep and just let those in power get away with everything, then all of those fine examples you presented above which I quoted, probably would have never been heard about, there wouldn't have been inquiries or criminal charges being laid, the Liberals would still be in power.... or if you wanted an updated example: The Conservatives would be staying in power after this money scam of their own...... the RCMP would still have their corrupt commissioner, and they'd all still be Tasering the hell out of us for trivial things.

Decisions are being made, many people (perhaps not all) in Canada do keep informed and do think.... and many of them help fight for change each day. They continually expose the problems in our governments and elsewhere.

But once again..... you commented on us never doing anything, that we don't think, that all this still keeps happening and then you turn and ask Z "So you're suggesting that we simply give up?" although you seem to be presenting the same argument.

What do you propose we do about all these contiual problems?

If there is no plan, then there is no action. Jumping into action without a solid plan will just get you something like Iraq.
 

Praxius

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Praxius

Ok you're not affected nor influenced by what's happening around you...right?

I am aware of it, I am not affected by it..... or at least no more then you are.

And this may come as a shock to you but I've said many times on this site and others that Canadians need to stop playing the game....

And what game again?

You presented examples for your argument, I do none of those things you listed.... therefore I'm playing the game because I don't fit your generalization easily? :-?

That's just silly.

But you can't convince a Canadian of anything unless its the wisdom of listening to Don Cherry and selectively ignoring dynamics around them when they want to feel insulated from the outcomes of their decisions. You'd probably find it difficult to believe that the World Trade Center in New York City was destroyed by people who thought a great deal like you.

Meh, we all think alike in some fashion or another.

Once again, you should be aware that I don't get my worldly news from Don Cherry, let alone any of my hockey information from him. Another case in point flawed.

That Canadians "selectively ignoring dynamics around them when they want to feel insulated from the outcomes of their decisions." ~ Who here has been posting the majority of the news and media reports around the world from various news sources so that other forum members have something to debate/talk about and to also be informed since he came here?

*raises hand* OOOOooo OOoooo Prax! I know this one!!!!

Whom is also Canadian? Hmmmmm..... that's one example that completely counters the majority, if not all your generalizing complaints about our culture and way of thinking.

It doesn't matter what I do or what I think.... I've allowed my future and my families futures to be determined by people who don't even live on the same continent as me....

Then who's fault is that?

Speaking of outcomes of our decisions. If you have allowed this to happen to your future and your family, then do something about it.

While I can't reasonably expect them to be available to a reasoned dialogue their example has been to launch cruise missiles and invade nations around the world so I should follow their example and close my mind to anything I don't like or understand....

Who is this again? Canada or the US you're talking about?

Who is telling you this is the right thing to be doing, that we should be following who's example? Who told you to close your mind to anything you don't like or understand? Is that supposed to be this Canadian attitude you spoke of?

(See I continually try to inform myself on various things :p )
 

MikeyDB

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Freedom is slavery, thats your best retort? wow.

What has been your contribution? To paraphrase.." The superior human being who victimizes people is the best suited to lead.".....

You have the freedom to decide who you work for to feed your family and raise your children don't you? By circumstance and situation a great great many people do not have that "freedom". You've stated that you think that he ability of advertising and marketting firms is affirmation of the superiority of the "entitled"-class.... When a child murders another over a pair of name-brand running shoes...because Michael Jordan endorses them and imples that athletic prowess and fame and fortune will follow if only you wear these particular shoes with this particular logo..... When children are convinced that annorexia and bulimia are appropriate strategies to "fitting-in" to fulfilling the "model" that Madison Avenue and Paris HIlton and Larry Flint and multi-billion dollar objectification empires provides to you this is not only accpetable but perfectly normal.....

When people purchase a ticket to attend a major league baseball game or basketball game or hockey game, the fact that the price is inflated to cover the advertising budgets of huge gaming monopolies is evidence of how "superior" mind works...

When the unemployed begin riots and burn neighborhoods because the plant their father worked in has closed and the production given to off-shore "foreign" workers who are willing to accept far lower wages...that's your notion of "progress"... When pharmaceutical drugs are more predominant than "street drugs" and controlled substances comprise multi-billion dollar businesses because they're marketted so skillfully and consumed so openly by the silver screen heroes and darlings of fashion mags...that's your 'morality' suceeding...

Good for you, you've got what you want.
 

Zzarchov

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Uh huh...

So your logic is its better if a child kills another child over a pair of brandless shoes, than over a pair of brand names shoes..

shouldn't your primary concern be the murder of children not what brand of shoe they wear?

You think marketing has anything to do with girls altering their physical appearance? Are you that gullible?

Anorexia may be here, in other parts of the world is massive overfeeding leading to unhealthy obesity. These trends (like footbinding and wearing rings on your neck) are not related to the "modern world" but are throwbacks to the humanities earlier days..

If you don't like the marketing and hype of the hockey game, don't go. You don't need hockey tickets to live. Prioritize.

If the fathers plant closes he can go into business for himself. Your logic is that people in the third world are inhuman and don't deserve a job because we should pay local workers more than they are worth?

Subsidize the local economy to drown out people in other countries who want to work?

Im quite familiar with jobs, even ones I do, going overseas. Heres a concept I go with: If they are willing to work harder and the cost of living is less (allowing lower wages) Then I either need to bring something to the table (more efficiency, higher quality) or accept that the world isn't going to give me charity so I can have more money than I deserve.

You want a world where the average person is forced to pay more for substandard garbage. Told where to work and for how much. The world tried that, it failed.
 

MikeyDB

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Zzarchov

What fantasy do you live in?

You believe that marketting shares no responsibility for anything that's negative but is in fact the fountain of all that's good in the world??????

Why is it that atrocities like the Jon Benet Ramsey case take place? Why is it that eating disorders are a plague in America and many other "prosperous" nations? Why is it that we embrace the notion that "the suit makes the man" when we all know at a fundamental level that a doctor or a lawyer or a plumber or an accountant dressed like Bozo who's capable at his work doesn't rely on his suit to emphasize his skill and aplomb at the task he undertakes.... You talk long about how marketting is the cornucopia of all that's good but why are you so resistant to the idea athat an artificial reality is fundamentally flawed?

I doubt we can go much further discussing these points Zzarachov, you believe in Cia pets and Coca Cola as the ultimate in prosperity and I believe that marketting generates far more negative outcomes and consequences than it promotes stability and peacefulness.

Marketting is the underbelly of greed and convincing people that happiness or contentment comes with "ownership" of this kind of car or this brand of clothing or this fantasy of popularity...its a false identity and a system of let's pretend.
 

Zzarchov

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Why does Anorexia exist? Fundemental human needs to alter ourselves.

Or do you blame marketing for the following similar conditions:


Paudong Neck Rings



Mauritania obesity farm (ie, making girls obese)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3429903.stm



Traditional Chinese Foot Binding.




See, this is where your argument falls flat.
 

MikeyDB

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Zzarchov

Read really slowly if you have to and use your finger if you must....

When artificial concepts suggest "beauty" can be realized by deforming the human body then that activity is embraced. When "mating" is associated with appearance and the possibility of "getting laid" is bound to the Chevy four-door rather than the two-seater MG...when sexual prowess and demostrable "success" is objectified through a Hummer or a Bentley Rolls Royce or a Lamborghini....the acoutrements of consumption become the symbols of trustworthiness and "suggest" a personality or a quality that may or may not exist as part of the individual sporting that fad...its phoney Zzarchy old boy. When you buy a car to impress the girls and your "friends" it's a phoney temporary and quite fleeting legerdemain your engaged in perpetrating and has nothing to do with who you are as a person. When you believe that your value as a human being is enhanced by wearing a Cross your Heart bra...when high-heals make your legs more shapely (and cause many problems later on) when you're convinced you're feathers will attract a mate and you don't have the wherewithal to deal with life on any other basis than the phoney and the fleeting glamour of fashion...there's not much to your life and that will become apparent readily when you lose your means to perpetuate the myth.

Marketting is a way of substituting myth for reality Zzarchy and a continent of North Americans have embraced myth and substituted fantasy for reality for decades.

Sorry Z try again if you must....