Resetting taxes versus raising GST

[Omicron]

One thing that seems to be getting overlooked in all this discussion of taxation is the trade agreements.

It was not all that long ago that most govt revenues were generated from trade tarriffs and excise taxes, in fact prior to WW1 this was about 90% of all govt revenues, it is now less than 10%. If you are really interested in getting rid of income tax and strenghtening our Candian economy it is the free trade agreements that need to go.

We in Canada are in a superior position to most as we have all the resources we need and still have the skill and ability to internally manufacture most of what we need so let the others come to us for our resources and to take advantage of our marketplace but let them pay for the privelige too.

Yeah... Canada is one of two countries with all the elements required to go it alone as an industrial society... the other being Russia... which is why others need to trade with us way more than we need to trade with them.

I would laugh harder when Harpezoid says he's got to give tax-reduction welfare to corporations, saying it's the only way to encourage business to come here and stay... but instead I feel a combination of sadness and terror that there are people who believe him.

As if a diamond-miner is going to put on a pout and huff away to dig his diamonds somewhere else. What's he going to do... take the mine with him?

 

[PoliticalNick]

We have a trade surplus with the US....and you want to start a trade war?

Its not a trade war, it is claiming our sovereignty as an independant nation who can actually be independant. We do not need to bow down to the frickin US or anyone else.

 

[Avro]

Its not a trade war, it is claiming our sovereignty as an independant nation who can actually be independant. We do not need to bow down to the frickin US or anyone else.

You're right, we don't want to bow down to the US, but we are making money off them.

 

[PoliticalNick]

You're right, we don't want to bow down to the US, but we are making money off them.

And we could make a sh*tload more and reduce your income tax to almost nothing. I thought you would be for this. You make such a big deal about not paying taxes and this is a simple solution that achieves your goal.

Remember, they need us more than we need them.

 

[Avro]

As if a diamond-miner is going to put on a pout and huff away to dig his diamonds somewhere else. What's he going to do... take the mine with him?

No, buy the mine and take the profits and resources home.

China is doing just that.

And we could make a sh*tload more and reduce your income tax to almost nothing. I thought you would be for this. You make such a big deal about not paying taxes and this is a simple solution that achieves your goal.

Remember, they need us more than we need them.

How could we make a ****load if your customer goes elsewhere?

 

[Said1]

One thing that seems to be getting overlooked in all this discussion of taxation is the trade agreements.

It was not all that long ago that most govt revenues were generated from trade tarriffs and excise taxes, in fact prior to WW1 this was about 90% of all govt revenues, it is now less than 10%. If you are really interested in getting rid of income tax and strenghtening our Candian economy it is the free trade agreements that need to go.

We in Canada are in a superior position to most as we have all the resources we need and still have the skill and ability to internally manufacture most of what we need so let the others come to us for our resources and to take advantage of our marketplace but let them pay for the privelige too.

Hey sure, the old branch plant economy model would be good, given that stuff is designed/made up here and bought here, without any real need to export stuff, anywhere, ever. Sure cut ourselves off, who needs access to bigger markets when there's us.

 

[Avro]

Hey sure, the old branch plant economy model would be good, given that stuff is designed/made up here and bought here, without any real need to export stuff, anywhere, ever. Sure cut ourselves off.

Canada is a branch plant economy.

 

[Said1]

Canada is a branch plant economy.

Was. Evolving.

 

[Avro]

Was. Evolving.

Yeah, we'll sell anything that isn't nailed down and destroy the environment at the same time.

What a paradise we are building.

 

[Said1]

Yeah, we'll sell anything that isn't nailed down and destroy the environment at the same time.

What a paradise we are building.

Gotta preserve the global status quo, Avro.

 

[Avro]

Gotta preserve the global status quo, Avro.

Make up your mind.

 

[Said1]

Make up your mind.

About what?

 

[Avro]

About what?

Do you want an open market or a protectionist one?

 

[Said1]

Do you want an open market or a protectionist one?

Clearly open markets, but I didn't say do it the way you described it 'sell anything, kill the environment' - paraphrasing of course. My second statement was in reference to the fact that what you said (above, where i paraphrased) seems to be a global phenomena, as in what everyone else is doing.....the status quo. Man I'm tired, are the bags under my eyes showing?

 

[PoliticalNick]

If we have a product or resource someone else needs they will buy it. Think about it, you need gas for your car so no matter what the price you still buy it.

Same for all the US and other foriegn businesses that come here to make a profit. If they won't do it for the profit we allow then somebody else will. We don't need home depot and wal-mart because there are 5 others waiting to take their place as long as there is money to be made and they will open stores and sell products in Canada whether they can make $500 million/yr or $100 million/yr. Everybody seems to think we need all this free trade BS but we have been marketed into believing it by the same companies that want the $500 million instead of the $100 million.

 

[Said1]

If you say so, but think about it. if they won't do it for the profit we allow (meaning produce things for the local economy and for export, globally), they can go somewhere else, and they have. Labour is extremely mobile.We don't want other box stores because we don't want to pay more. No one wants to pay more.Well some might. And, like the 5 others supposedly waiting to replace walmart etc, there are 5 others waiting to take our place in world markets, too.

 

[PoliticalNick]

If you say so, but think about it. if they won't do it for the profit we allow (meaning produce things for the local economy and for export, globally), they can go somewhere else, and they have. Labour is extremely mobile.We don't want other box stores because we don't want to pay more. No one wants to pay more.Well some might. And, like the 5 others supposedly waiting to replace walmart etc, there are 5 others waiting to take our place in world markets, too.

Who says we need a 'they' to produce anything, we are quite capable on our own of producing all we need, anything for export is gravy and holding it til other resources around the world diminish just make them more valuable. You are simply buying into their marketing that nobody else can provide us with the same service at the same price and for less profit. If we close the open market we actually have more control over our prices and inflation because we have more control over the value of our dollar.

Do we have to remain reasonably competitive in the export market if we choose to stay in it, sure, but we don't have to give it away for free like we do now either.

 

[Avro]

If we have a product or resource someone else needs they will buy it. Think about it, you need gas for your car so no matter what the price you still buy it.

Same for all the US and other foriegn businesses that come here to make a profit. If they won't do it for the profit we allow then somebody else will. We don't need home depot and wal-mart because there are 5 others waiting to take their place as long as there is money to be made and they will open stores and sell products in Canada whether they can make $500 million/yr or $100 million/yr. Everybody seems to think we need all this free trade BS but we have been marketed into believing it by the same companies that want the $500 million instead of the $100 million.

So you want to completely close off the Canadian economy?

I'd love to see the economic model for that.

Please.....educate me.

 

[TenPenny]

The best part is that corporate tax cuts DON'T WORK. But, Flaherty likes them because business people like them...

... an analysis of Statistics Canada figures by The Globe and Mail reveals that the rate of investment in machinery and equipment has declined in lockstep with falling corporate tax rates over the past decade. At the same time, the analysis shows, businesses have added $83-billion to their cash reserves since the onset of the recession in 2008.
The issue has emerged as highly divisive, with the Liberals questioning the effectiveness of the no-strings-attached tax cuts as a job creation tool. They are pledging to roll corporate taxes back to 2010 levels to free up billions of dollars for spending on family-focused social programs, including day care and tuition.
Jim Flaherty, the Harper government’s Finance Minister, acknowledged in a telephone interview that corporate tax cuts are a tough sell when companies are still hoarding cash. But over the long term, he said, his “comfort zone” comes from the fact that business leaders and economists have widely endorsed tax cuts as a job creation tool.

 

[Avro]

I've seen old Farty stumble and fumble in an interview when confronted with the collapse of the Irish economy....one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the West.

We should base coporate tax rates on the amount of jobs corporations create here or something along those lines.