Refuse to choose® women deserve better® than abortion

[Cliffy]

You know: YukonJack not just Yukon? Or YJ. Surely you can not be that lazy?

I am Jack!:lol:

Seriously though, I think it comes from all the different handles I've know you by over the years. Hard to keep track of all the ad ons, so I gave up. Now you are just plain ol' cranky "Jack". It's OK Jack, because you will live on in infamy none the less.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

YJ is OK? All right then, I will use that from now on. Yukon Jack is a mouthful. Same way, I won’t mind if you refer to me as SJP.

 

[Cliffy]

YJ is OK? All right then, I will use that from now on. Yukon Jack is a mouthful. Same way, I won’t mind if you refer to me as SJP.

I don't mind when people call me Cliff.
Just don't call me Clifton or Clifford!:angryfire:

(You know I am just baiting those who would like to piss me off. I couldn't care less what people call me as long as it is not late for a pole dance.):lol:

 

[taxslave]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As I said in the first post, there is in place free contraceptives for children. There is in place free sex education taught in class. Yet your abortions persist. By CHOICE.

I am against abortion plainly--- because it destroys an innocent life, by chemical dissolution (ask your wife doctor) or by being disintegrated and being sucked through a straw. Poof, the taking of life!

I am not against it because of the church I go to. There are many churches that deem the practice "necessary".

The only "necessity my friend" is an Economic one. Abortion is an Economic choice, not only on the part of the man who fathered that innocent child, for obvious reasons. It was men who sent those women to those back alleys you talk about.

The woman makes an Economic decision as well to choose not to deal with an innocent life. Look at the decisions being made by mothers today to kill their own children even after they are born!

Economics is of course too the reason for the doctors fee for service for that "simple chemical douche" designed to take a human life. Does your wife and thus your household "benefit" by abortion? Answer me that please. We will all know where you are coming from.
Finally economics proliferates the system itself... from day one... to effect the slaughter of innocent life.

All for "Valuables" not Values!

You mentioned above many things about our progress- boasting of many tangible, utilitarian things, of the "Valuables" of todays progress. I am talking about the digression of "Values" today. Brother today You, perhaps your wife and household, as well as her patients and those forgotten fathers they choose "Valuables" and selfish personal comfort- not the value of Innocent life.

Brother, in every generation you talk about there is a choice of innocence and guilt. In every individuals life since there was also that choice. There was innocence and guilt in the 40's, in the 50's, in the 60's and through to today in ALL countrys.

But I am talking about innocent life...

Innocent life, a life that will simply never,
ever be given a chance, your chance. It also will never have the "personal liberty" you talk about...
to make "your choice". :fish:
---Abortion---
The innocence is disintegrated, by your selfish choice.

There is a large part of your problem. In when you think life begins. Despite what many religious leaders preach life does not begin at conception. It begins only when a life form is capable of breathing independently.
There are other methods of birth control available but in many states teens cannot simply go into a clinic and get pills like they can in more enlightened parts of the world. There is also vasectomy, which works quite well and has fewer side effects than any surgical procedures used on women.

 

[taxslave]

I don't mind when people call me Cliff.
Just don't call me Clifton or Clifford!:angryfire:

(You know I am just baiting those who would like to piss me off. I couldn't care less what people call me as long as it is not late for a pole dance.):lol:

I never knew that you pole danced. Please don't post pictures.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

I don't mind when people call me Cliff.
Just don't call me Clifton or Clifford!:angryfire:

(You know I am just baiting those who would like to piss me off. I couldn't care less what people call me as long as it is not late for a pole dance.):lol:

Same with me, Cliffy, I couldn’t care less what people call me. I realize that SirJosephPorter is a mouthful (same as SirRupertMargartroyd was), so I can understand people calling me by some shorter name.

But Yukon Jack seems to be sensitive about it, I don’t know why. No matter, I will refer to him as YJ from now on.

 

[bluedog]

*************************************************
*************************************************
(Nice try YukonJack! One more time!))


Good mORNING aLL!!
(Role call please)
(No need to call for the minutes, ya got 'em in front of you!)
(Lets call this meeting to order, what do you say!)

Well,
Lets try this again, from a different angle.

When we left yesterday you were arguing that "viability" only = "valu-ability". In essence. Correct?

Alright, now you had all devalued the "uniqueness and individuality the result of a gene pool never before seen and never to be seen again", as a concept for determining valu-ablity of invitro life. Correct?
It had no current value despite being "unique, invidual and the result of a gene pool never to be seen again" until the post birth stage of life, correct?

Brothers and Sisters, a pretty rock or ugly gemstone deserves better, it has the same qualities and we treasure them!!! This is Human life here!!!

After birth only is it valuable? Only after it was Nurtured and Protected to Gestation escaping the hazards... medical, yes, but also the hazards the result of personal politics or social and/or familial pressure! Only after the birth!

Abortion is a choice? Because before that birth obviously the child just is not, was not, deemed valuable to the mother father or social structure where it was concieved.
They would pick up a rough gemstone from a cave and nurture "it" to "perfection"!


I was berated for imposing my value on that unique gene pool I mentioned earlier never to be seen again. individual life with a beating heart nervous system and waste elimination system correct?
Many of you argued. Since it was not an independent life, free from the mothers womb living and breathing independently on its own, OUTSIDE the body is was not valuable.
I asked you all about six months, eight months, at what stage of life does it lose the "dependent fetal growth stuck to its mother and dependent on its mother" tag? I ask you?

Only. After cutting the cord, does it recieve its own "now you are valuable tag"! When!!!! It long before gained value as a unique gene pool never to be seen again.

Some still insist though it gains its value only in birth!!! Why? Is it independent then??? At what stage of development does it truly become independent of the mother and sustaining, when it is self sustaining? ??? When, I would ask... early infancy- infancy, early childhood, childhood, preteen, teen- at which point is it truly independent? The legal system will tell you only early adulthood guarantees independence. Do you seriously believe "independence" is the stage of growth that begins human rights?

Define vaibility
Define sustainability
Define self sustainability
Define value when it occurs!:fish:

 

[Niflmir]

It's a choice because it has nothing to do with the value of anything but the choice.

There are many examples of valuable, yet mentally ill, people throughout history. Of these people there are plenty of examples where they attempted to kill somebody. Is the right to self defense someone not present simply because the person was valuable? No, the value of an individual is irrelevant to whether something is right or wrong.

The right to terminate a parasitic relationship is no different.

 

[Liberalman]

All children must be bought to birth and let the government take care of them.

We need the future taxpayers.

The only choice the woman should have is the choice to go to jail or the choice to give birth to their babies.

This fall the Conservative party of Canada will introduce a bill that protects the fetus from inception to birth which means the woman that has an abortion will be charged with murder.

Like in cigarettes it is legal to buy but smoking is subject to fines.

This means that doctors will have the legal right to perform the abortion but the woman that has the abortion will be sent to jail.

This is the only time I agree with the Conservatives.

 

[YukonJack]

bluedog, what do you mean by:

"*************************************************
*************************************************
(Nice try YukonJack! One more time!))"

 

[taxslave]

All children must be bought to birth and let the government take care of them.

We need the future taxpayers.

The only choice the woman should have is the choice to go to jail or the choice to give birth to their babies.

This fall the Conservative party of Canada will introduce a bill that protects the fetus from inception to birth which means the woman that has an abortion will be charged with murder.

Like in cigarettes it is legal to buy but smoking is subject to fines.

This means that doctors will have the legal right to perform the abortion but the woman that has the abortion will be sent to jail.

This is the only time I agree with the Conservatives.

That is about the stupidest idea I ever heard. Does sound like something the republican boot licking toadies Harper has around would come up with though.
Bluedog: You still seem to think life begins at contraception which is wrong and although you are free to believe that you do not have the right to force this erroneous view on others. The only person who has any right to decide to have an abortion or not is the pregnant women. Certainly no man has any right to impose his will on women.

 

[JLM]

That is about the stupidest idea I ever heard. Does sound like something the republican boot licking toadies Harper has around would come up with though.
Bluedog: You still seem to think life begins at contraception which is wrong and although you are free to believe that you do not have the right to force this erroneous view on others. The only person who has any right to decide to have an abortion or not is the pregnant women. Certainly no man has any right to impose his will on women.

I would amend that slightly to read "the only person/entity who has a right is the one that hasn't got a voice (yet)".

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Some still insist though it gains its value only in birth!!! Why? Is it independent then??? At what stage of development does it truly become independent of the mother and sustaining, when it is self sustaining?

We don’t know, bluedog, that is why it is all so arbitrary. I draw the line at fetal viability, but somebody else my draw the line at birth. Somebody else may draw the line at the point when heartbeat can be heard, somebody else still at the moment of conception.

These are all equally valid points of view, since we don’t really know when life begins. The question is if one of these viewpoints (namely life begins at conception) should be imposed upon everybody else, everybody who doesn’t agree with it.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Define vaibility
Define sustainability
Define self sustainability
Define value when it occurs!

Bluedog, we cannot, and that is the problem.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

This fall the Conservative party of Canada will introduce a bill that protects the fetus from inception to birth which means the woman that has an abortion will be charged with murder.

I don’t believe it, Liberalman. I have said it many times, Harper may be crazy, but he isn’t stupid. If he tries to outlaw abortion, that will be the quickest way out of power for him. Harper wants to stay in power, he is not going to do something as stupid as trying to ban abortion.

Do you have a link to this?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

That is about the stupidest idea I ever heard. Does sound like something the republican boot licking toadies Harper has around would come up with though.

I agree, taxslave. There are no doubt right wing ideologues surrounding Harper (that is why I don’t trust him, even though at present he is governing from centre right). However, unlike the ideologues, Harper wants to stay in power. So he is not going to touch the hot potato of abortion.

He has wisely stayed away from gay marriage, and he is not about to get into the quagmire of abortion. Personally I wish he would try to ban abortion. He won’t succeed, but he will be sure to lose the next election.

I am sure Liberalman has got it wrong. So Liberalman, again, do you have a link to this?

 

[Liberalman]

This fall the Conservative party of Canada will introduce a bill that protects the fetus from inception to birth which means the woman that has an abortion will be charged with murder.

I don’t believe it, Liberalman. I have said it many times, Harper may be crazy, but he isn’t stupid. If he tries to outlaw abortion, that will be the quickest way out of power for him. Harper wants to stay in power, he is not going to do something as stupid as trying to ban abortion.

Do you have a link to this?

Harper knows that his government days are numbered so he will do what he origionally promised by protecting the fetus from inception to birth and when the opposition triggers an election the Conservatives will get the majority.

A lot of people in Ontario and Quebec are against abortion but they will not admit it pubically because of their fear of the activists they will only act in secret as at the ballot box.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Harper knows that his government days are numbered so he will do what he origionally promised by protecting the fetus from inception to birth and when the opposition triggers an election the Conservatives will get the majority.

A lot of people in Ontario and Quebec are against abortion but they will not admit it pubically because of their fear of the activists they will only act in secret as at the ballot box.

Libralman, if the next election becomes a referendum on abortion, Conservatives will lose and they will lose big. They will be lucky to get 10 seats in Ontario (out of 103) and they will get zero in Quebec (out of 75).

But as I said, I just don’t see Harper doing that. Where did you read this? Again, where is the link?

 

[gerryh]

Murder is murder, infanticide is infanticide, whether it be after the baby's born, or 2 weeks after conception, it matters not.

 

[Cliffy]

Murder is murder, infanticide is infanticide, whether it be after the baby's born, or 2 weeks after conception, it matters not.

I hear they are considered a delicacy by some tribes in Borneo.