RCAF eyes Resolute Bay for new Arctic base

[Ariadne]

It seems to me that without Harper, the Northern shores were pretty much ignored. All those waters, communities and land masses need to be protected because the US has the idea of running a shipping channel through the middle somewhere and claiming everything North. That would be a tragedy for the Canadians in those Northern communities.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

It seems to me that without Harper, the Northern shores were pretty much ignored. All those waters, communities and land masses need to be protected because the US has the idea of running a shipping channel through the middle somewhere and claiming everything North. That would be a tragedy for the Canadians in those Northern communities.

Yes, you have to give Harper some credit for visiting the north and trying to generate interest in a part of the world the Chinese govt cares about greatly too. Except, we own it, don't we? The USA is very keen on it too. The whole world wants to use the Northwest Passage for shipping, are we going to be able to stop them? No. But we have to regulate and control traffic through it. For security purposes, the USA will demand it.

 

[Cliffy]

Sun activity and the warming trend are supposed to end in 2012. Then a cooling trend where the NW passage is frozen over again. Much ado about nothing. This cycle is ending and a new Ice Age is on its way. Just another little trick by Mama Nature to put us in our place.

 

[Ariadne]

Yes, you have to give Harper some credit for visiting the north and trying to generate interest in a part of the world the Chinese govt cares about greatly too. Except, we own it, don't we? The USA is very keen on it too. The whole world wants to use the Northwest Passage for shipping, are we going to be able to stop them? No. But we have to regulate and control traffic through it. For security purposes, the USA will demand it.

If it runs through the country, we own it. They can run their shipping channel further north ... maybe around the northern coast of Russia ... if they want control ... too bad about the ice in between. If they want to run a shipping channel through Canada, then Canada makes all the rules ... none of this warship perched in Canadian waters because they want their way no matter what.

 

[Cliffy]

If it runs through the country, we own it. They can run their shipping channel further north ... maybe around the northern coast of Russia ... if they want control ... too bad about the ice in between. If they want to run a shipping channel through Canada, then Canada makes all the rules ... none of this warship perched in Canadian waters because they want their way no matter what.

Ya! Nuke em!

 

[Ariadne]

I suggest blocking each end of the proposed channel and taking it from there.

 

[lone wolf]

A roaring mouse needs big ships that can fire big rockets. Power is what nations respect, if you don't give displays of hard power, and a williingness to use it, nations step on your face as they trod over you. Soft power is fine for diplomats, but out in the open, soft power equals weakness. Not everything is decided in meeting rooms, not everyone or nation in the world is reasonable all the time.

========

An article about China and the Arctic on the al-jazeera website. Interest is growing. You buy gunboats to show you mean business, then commerce becomes easy as everyone knows the rules.

The dragon looks north - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

...and you think Canada has that capability?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Of course we do. Russia, with a smaller economy, has more and bigger icebreakers, and they are nuclear. What do we spend our money on? We need ships more than jets to patrol the Arctic. Time is being wasted in Ottawa. We lack national objectives here.

World News: Canada well behind Russia in race to claim Arctic seaways and territory - thestar.com
"Losing control over access to the waterway could cost Canada any chance of profiting from escort fees and other tolls if climate change permanently opens the meandering route through often tight channels."

"Ottawa still hasn’t set a start date for construction of a new Polar class icebreaker promised in 2008."

 

[Ariadne]

Of course we do. Russia, with a smaller economy, has more and bigger icebreakers, and they are nuclear. What do we spend our money on? We need ships more than jets to patrol the Arctic. Time is being wasted in Ottawa. We lack national objectives here.

World News: Canada well behind Russia in race to claim Arctic seaways and territory - thestar.com
"Losing control over access to the waterway could cost Canada any chance of profiting from escort fees and other tolls if climate change permanently opens the meandering route through often tight channels."

"Ottawa still hasn’t set a start date for construction of a new Polar class icebreaker promised in 2008."

What exactly are Russian or US icebreakers doing in Canadian territory? Are these countries threatening Canada to the extent that Canada requires defences against the US and Russia? Not sure how to block the entrances, but two ships should work for starters ... one at either end.

 

[lone wolf]

Of course we do. Russia, with a smaller economy, has more and bigger icebreakers, and they are nuclear. What do we spend our money on? We need ships more than jets to patrol the Arctic. Time is being wasted in Ottawa. We lack national objectives here.

World News: Canada well behind Russia in race to claim Arctic seaways and territory - thestar.com
"Losing control over access to the waterway could cost Canada any chance of profiting from escort fees and other tolls if climate change permanently opens the meandering route through often tight channels."

"Ottawa still hasn’t set a start date for construction of a new Polar class icebreaker promised in 2008."

The biggest of icebreakers can't move any of those islands far enough apart to have the passage declared international water. As far as anything around the North Pole goes, the closest Canadian territory is some 500 km away.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Well, satellites are pretty old tech too. If India can launch rockets, why can't we? Think of all the good engineering jobs that would be made in Canada, for Canadians. Our military right now has to ask other countries to send up satellites. It's a joke.

Satellites are not "old tech". Satellites can have serve many different purposes, some quite advanced. Most countries pay the private sector to launch their satellites as it's cost prohibitive unless you're doing it on a constant basis.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Satellites are not "old tech". Satellites can have serve many different purposes, some quite advanced. Most countries pay the private sector to launch their satellites as it's cost prohibitive unless you're doing it on a constant basis.

Satellites and rockets have been around since Sputnik. They are advancing all the time as NASA's new one on Mars. Geopolitics is not always profitable but to show you want land, you have to do things to show you own it. Other countries like China are pushing us to to do something in this vast region and we try to get away with as little as possible.

Canadian politics are entering a crossroads, always trying to accomodate everyone and achieve a happy concensus doesn't seem to be working like it used to. Other countries just aren't playing ball like they're supposed to. But then China still have several hundred million peasants just getting by.

 

[Kakato]

The reason Satellite coverage is scetchy in the north is because your right below them,so at the north pole your probably behind any satellite.Think of them like a megaphone and your right at the small area of the cone.Funny but I had more luck keeping a sat signal for internet then I did for my sat phone in the Arctic. We were also through Rodgers so even though I was thousands of miles from Vancouver it was like a local call to phone there.

 

[petros]

It's not hard to get a cell connection but try moving data. The bandwidth sucks.

 

[Machjo]

Denmark wishes to see China join the Arctic Council as an observer. Greenland sees potential with China. And an admiral from China has made a territorial claim to the Arctic. The world sees opportunity here, and we don't have a base there yet.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/indepth/2011-11/05/c_131230851.htm

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Arrival+China+Arctic+puts+Canada+alert/5625461/story.html

China

Somewhat misleading. The first link is about economic cooperation, nothing military or political involved. The second link involves Chinese intervention via an Arctic country with its consent.

The third link is more political and military in nature, but even it tries to argue its case on teh basis of a flawed interpretation of international law, which could easily be overcome.

Should greenland want closer ties with China, it's well within its right to do so.

At the end of the day though, Canada's territorial integrity won't be protected by simply having a larger military, but rather by establishing our claims in international law.

 

[Kakato]

It's not hard to get a cell connection but try moving data. The bandwidth sucks.

They only got cell phones in Rankin inlet 2 years ago.Farther north unless your in an area with a tower there is no cell service.
Cell phones dont work off satellites though and I know our sat phones and internet would work most of the time but as your so far north there is a couple hours a day where you get no sat service.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Somewhat misleading. The first link is about economic cooperation, nothing military or political involved. The second link involves Chinese intervention via an Arctic country with its consent.

The third link is more political and military in nature, but even it tries to argue its case on teh basis of a flawed interpretation of international law, which could easily be overcome.

Should greenland want closer ties with China, it's well within its right to do so.

At the end of the day though, Canada's territorial integrity won't be protected by simply having a larger military, but rather by establishing our claims in international law.

China has an odd enterpretation of international law, look at all the cloned Apple stores and patent law. The Chinese employees in the Apples stores in China are totally sure Apple is a Chinese company. That is because, "Like, we're in China, China makes the product, we sell it in China, so it's Chinese. What's the problem?"

China is trying to make international law, it will likely fail, but at present, they are not listening to facts. This would not be news if Egypt had this attutude, but a dynamic country with over a billion people and very focussed tendencies has it. So we must bear with it. China has made claims in the South China Sea that shocke Vietnam, and the Philippines.

Greenland is looking for investment, nothing wrong with that.