Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice

[L Gilbert]

In 1981, the Status of Women Action Committee (ball breaking feminists) fought hard to ensure that women were considered equal to men in the Charter of Rights. With that equality came the right of all women to be treated equal to men in all respects. Since men have always kept their own name, regardless of whether they were married, from that time on women kept their name regardless of whether they were married. No matter where one is in Canada, there is always a fee to change a name, whether that change is to a name similar to a spouse or otherwise. What is happening in Quebec is no different than the rest of Canada with, it appears, one exception. It seems that in Quebec there must be a good reason for a name change, and it seems that the reason of "patriarchy" is not a good one. Men would face the same difficulties in changing their last name for reasons of "matriarchy", so there is equality.

I agree, so?

The term feminism was tossed around upthread with the implication that feminists should be all over this. They were all over it in 1981 to ensure that women retained the right to keep their last name. Feminists are not the ones that are upset about this right.

In fact, the real problem has nothing to do wth feminism or women. This is a point that needs to be addressed my men and women alike regarding the name changing rules.

Yeah.

 

[TenPenny]

Indeed. I can understand the desire for some traditionalists to make it easy for them to change names with a marriage, but there are really good reasons why changing your name should be difficult. For men and women both. The idea that you have to apply for it, and really want it, seems like a good idea to me.

Exactly, it should be more of an actual action, because it has major implications.

I've known people who have to get University diplomas re-issued in their new names, which makes no sense to me - if Jennifer Brown went to medical school, why can they issue a new diploma just because she subsequently changed her name to Jennifer Jones? Jennifer Jones never went to medical school.

I like the Quebec system - you are who you are for legal purposes.

 

[Ariadne]

Exactly, it should be more of an actual action, because it has major implications.

I've known people who have to get University diplomas re-issued in their new names, which makes no sense to me - if Jennifer Brown went to medical school, why can they issue a new diploma just because she subsequently changed her name to Jennifer Jones? Jennifer Jones never went to medical school.

I like the Quebec system - you are who you are for legal purposes.

I think that a number of women prefer to keep their own name because, as you point out, degrees are issued to a person with that specific name. Re-issuing degrees costs a fair bit of money, so first people pay to change their names, then they have to pay each institution to re-issue degrees. Seems to make a lot more sense to hang on to one's own name.

 

[L Gilbert]

Exactly, it should be more of an actual action, because it has major implications.

I've known people who have to get University diplomas re-issued in their new names, which makes no sense to me - if Jennifer Brown went to medical school, why can they issue a new diploma just because she subsequently changed her name to Jennifer Jones? Jennifer Jones never went to medical school.

I like the Quebec system - you are who you are for legal purposes.

A rose is a rose even if it's just called a flower or Aida, Chrysler, or Midas' Touch. Jennifer is still Jennifer whatever her name is and she's the one that got the degree.

I think that a number of women prefer to keep their own name because, as you point out, degrees are issued to a person with that specific name. Re-issuing degrees costs a fair bit of money, so first people pay to change their names, then they have to pay each institution to re-issue degrees. Seems to make a lot more sense to hang on to one's own name.

I agree.

 

[Madi]

In 1981, the Status of Women Action Committee (ball breaking feminists) fought hard to ensure that women were considered equal to men in the Charter of Rights. With that equality came the right of all women to be treated equal to men in all respects. Since men have always kept their own name, regardless of whether they were married, from that time on women kept their name regardless of whether they were married. No matter where one is in Canada, there is always a fee to change a name, whether that change is to a name similar to a spouse or otherwise. What is happening in Quebec is no different than the rest of Canada with, it appears, one exception. It seems that in Quebec there must be a good reason for a name change, and it seems that the reason of "patriarchy" is not a good one. Men would face the same difficulties in changing their last name for reasons of "matriarchy", so there is equality.

The term feminism was tossed around upthread with the implication that feminists should be all over this. They were all over it in 1981 to ensure that women retained the right to keep their last name. Feminists are not the ones that are upset about this right.

In fact, the real problem has nothing to do wth feminism or women. This is a point that needs to be addressed my men and women alike regarding the name changing rules.

No matter where one is in Canada, there is always a fee to change a name, whether that change is to a name similar to a spouse or otherwise.

Not in Quebec. A spouse cannot legally use his/her partner's family name. You cannot have your documents issued in your spouse's family name.
For a fee, you can change your family name if it's strange, mispronounced, ridiculous, etc. Also, your given name (easily).
One can choose any family name (if the previous conditions apply) but his/her spouse's.

Section 393 of the Civil Code of Québec stipulates that women and men in Québec must exercise their civil rights under their own name.

Exactly, it should be more of an actual action, because it has major implications.

I've known people who have to get University diplomas re-issued in their new names, which makes no sense to me - if Jennifer Brown went to medical school, why can they issue a new diploma just because she subsequently changed her name to Jennifer Jones? Jennifer Jones never went to medical school.

I like the Quebec system - you are who you are for legal purposes.

How would you like a legal system that forces you to take your spouse's family name "for legal purposes"?

 

[Ariadne]

Have you ever responded to a thread and then realize that it's probably one of those school kids looking for feedback on an essay topic? That's what this felt like with the maki-feminist ****.

What if there was a school kid that couldn't be bothered to research the topic, or didn't know how, and instead searched online forums for opinons about the subject .. and then spewed out some argument or essay about women in Quebec being forced to keep their maiden names because it was easier when they get divorced. Imagine how ill informed the next generation would be.

 

[TenPenny]

How would you like a legal system that forces you to take your spouse's family name "for legal purposes"?

You have a strange grasp of the concepts involved.

 

[Madi]

You have a strange grasp of the concepts involved.

Not stranger than yours.
At least I am flexible as I am pro-choice.

Have you ever responded to a thread and then realize that it's probably one of those school kids looking for feedback on an essay topic? That's what this felt like with the maki-feminist ****.

What if there was a school kid that couldn't be bothered to research the topic, or didn't know how, and instead searched online forums for opinons about the subject .. and then spewed out some argument or essay about women in Quebec being forced to keep their maiden names because it was easier when they get divorced. Imagine how ill informed the next generation would be.

Are you talking about taxslave's comment? You should direct your comment towards him/her.

 

[lone wolf]

Have you ever responded to a thread and then realize that it's probably one of those school kids looking for feedback on an essay topic? That's what this felt like with the maki-feminist ****.

What if there was a school kid that couldn't be bothered to research the topic, or didn't know how, and instead searched online forums for opinons about the subject .. and then spewed out some argument or essay about women in Quebec being forced to keep their maiden names because it was easier when they get divorced. Imagine how ill informed the next generation would be.

I'd say that "school kid" probably got a much broader-scoped response than the one one would get from writing a letter to her/his Member of Parliament.

 

[Madi]

I'd say that "school kid" probably got a much broader-scoped response than the one one would get from writing a letter to her/his Member of Parliament.

Hats off to lone wolf!

 

[willqccan]

I signed it. Better have the choice than not have it.

 

[mentalfloss]

Someone get Justin Trudeau on the phone.

Quebec is turning into Harperville.

 

[willqccan]

Someone get Justin Trudeau on the phone.

Quebec is turning into Harperville.

Federalismville maybe? Not sure myself. For the name issue, if I would get married soon, I would suggest my future wife not to do this but would be somehow honored if she'd want to take my name. That's a personal/couple choice in my opinion.

 

[Madi]

Federalismville maybe? Not sure myself. For the name issue, if I would get married soon, I would suggest my future wife not to do this but would be somehow honored if she'd want to take my name. That's a personal/couple choice in my opinion.

Exactly, personal choice.
Thank you.

 

[no color]

Oooops. I had it backward:
Quebec newlywed furious she can't take her husband

"Women keep their birth name after marriage and continue to exercise their civil rights under that name, i.e. they must use their birth name in contracts, on credit cards, on their driver's licence, etc. They are free however to assume their husband's name socially."

This rule applies to all women domiciled in Québec, even if they married outside Québec or outside Canada, except women married before April 2, 1981 already using their husband's last name to exercise their civil rights."
Source: Justice.gouv.qc.ca

Weird. So legally they have to pay extra to adopt their husbands' names.

Interesting. However it appears that the rules are not cast in stone. Me and the Mrs were initially married in the United States in 1998. My wife automatically assumed my last name upon marriage. All of her U.S. documents (driver's license, social security card, passport ..etc) were replaced to account for the name change. When we eventually moved to Canada (Montreal), and she went to obtain her Quebec driver's license, they simply swapped her Arizona driver's license with a Quebec driver's license. The SAAQ (Quebec Department of Motor Vehicles) kept the same name on the Quebec driver's license as was present on her Arizona driver's license. Same applies for her Canadain Social Insurance card and her Canadian Passport. My last name is present on all these documents. The wife also uses my last name regarding any correspondance with the government (Federal or Provincial). This also applies for income tax purposes. I don't see any case where the wife uses her maiden name. It would be confusing otherwise to have two official names.