Privatizing Aboriginal Reserves

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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www.cynicsunlimited.com
These are children who had no choice in where they were born and who their people were to be. Assuming you are right and the natives don't care (which I know isnt true as I know natives who have lost family members to suicide) it does not justify not caring or "yawning". They are just children and their deaths were preventable.

I never said natives don't care, but they don't seem to be doing much about their situation. They're adults, they have to do things for themselves.

Individually we care, it is a tragedy, but as a collective, Canadians don't care because these suicides keep occurring. The rate that these suicides occur is far above the national average and nothing is done. Usually, when we see something broken, we try to fix it. That is not happening here. No interventions here, and they are not permitted because we see them as outsiders, so we let them wallow in their squalor.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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I never said natives don't care...
That is exactly what you said...

Most of us just yawn at the suicides because it natives don't care, no one else will.


... but they don't seem to be doing much about their situation.
{Turtle Island Native Network} • View topic - National Aboriginal Youth Suicide Prevention Strategy
{Turtle Island Native Network} • View topic - 2006 Aboriginal Youth Suicide Prevention Walk
{Turtle Island Native Network} • View topic - Intervention, prevention - shine light on a dark subject

And that's just from one source.

They're adults, they have to do things for themselves.
Can you prove they don't?

Individually we care, it is a tragedy, but as a collective, Canadians don't care because these suicides keep occurring.
Can you back that up?

The rate that these suicides occur is far above the national average and nothing is done.
Well I already proved the latter to be a lie. Sadly the former is quite true, and would likely only be exacerbated by any policy you'd support.

Usually, when we see something broken, we try to fix it. That is not happening here. No interventions here, and they are not permitted because we see them as outsiders, so we let them wallow in their squalor.
I've already proven that statement to be a complete lie.

How long do you plan on lying through your eye teeth?

Are you ever embarrassed by how easy I prove you to be a bigot and a liar?
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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They are poor country people left to languish as rich govts and a rich country surrounds them. They are cultural prisoners living in squalor, yet they are surrounded by wealth.

The same can be said about pretty much everyone. It doesn't matter who you are, or what colour of skin you have. There are poor people in all the races and creeds. Saying that all First Nations are living in squalor is incorrect.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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The same can be said about pretty much everyone. It doesn't matter who you are, or what colour of skin you have. There are poor people in all the races and creeds. Saying that all First Nations are living in squalor is incorrect.
It isn't just incorrect, it's an outright lie.

I'm not due to head back up to Rama for a couple weeks. But rest assured, I will be bringing my camera and I'll force feed dumpster some more reality.
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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It isn't just incorrect, it's an outright lie.

I'm not due to head back up to Rama for a couple weeks. But rest assured, I will be bringing my camera and I'll force feed dumpster some more reality.

I was just trying to be kind to him.;)
 

shadowshiv

Dark Overlord
May 29, 2007
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It seemed only fitting since he began putting that "Landfill" disclaimer on his posts.

I can only keep it nice with people who express an obvious bigotry, so long, before they get what they so richly deserve.

The back of my virtual paw.

I know that, Bear. I am glad you are able to keep it remarkably civil sometimes especially considering some of the topics discussed.:)
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,418
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Low Earth Orbit
Dumpster needs a job, something to feel good about, then maybe he can respect himself and men with balls.
 

dumpthemonarchy

House Member
Jan 18, 2005
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www.cynicsunlimited.com
I am not aboriginal but I have property I have been entrusted with on Cape Breton Island.
Our family has a connection to that land that goes back several generations. As for a spiritual connection, I would say yes. A couple of months ago I might not have agreed with that statement but today I do. I walked across it for the first time as belonging to me. My
Great Grand father, my Grandfather and my Father owned it before me as it became mineonly two years ago.

I remember them talking about it being on a Queen Victoria Deed and how they felt about it. I remember their descriptions and its location and how it fit into their culture, and it being by the sea. Yes I would say that people can develop a spiritual connection to a land that is part of your heritage.

Some people don't have and that is fine, but when you are critical of natives or others that do, I feel you may be boarding on being disrespectful of other peoples beliefs. It may be intentional or by a lack of understand of others. I am not outraged though I just feel sorry for you in the fact that you cannot grasp how other feel. You notice I did not say how others think, but how they
feel there is a difference between the two. That is too bad because we can learn a great deal about people and how others view the world if we can be respectful about others feel about things. I do recognize there are questions within the native communities and its their business the direction they want to go. I also have a daughter who we adopted decades ago and she has her status
and so do the grand children. I listen to the heritage discussions and I do not believe them to be made of superstitions or anything else, it is part of their belief system and appreciation of the world around them. People should know something about which the speak before making comments that are not based in fact or substance.

People can have all the spirtual feelings they want, and they likely do without any intervention or bother from me. But when it is brought into law as an argument, then I strongly challenge that, because in this case it squanders public funds. Just to repeat, people can be spiritual all they want, but when they bring it into the public realm, I strongly disapprove.

When something is brought into the public realm, then it is open for discussion, good and bad. Some people don't like that, that's not my problem. Belief is not a fact, sorry. Beliefs like many other things, such as dated social ideas, can be challenged and have to be for democracy and progress.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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But when it is brought into law as an argument, then I strongly challenge that, because in this case it squanders public funds.
Culture is a factor in court cases all the time, civil and criminal.

Just to repeat, people can be spiritual all they want, but when they bring it into the public realm, I strongly disapprove.
Who brought it into the public realm?

When something is brought into the public realm, then it is open for discussion, good and bad.
You keep saying it was brought into the public realm, but haven't established how.

Some people don't like that, that's not my problem.
We already know what you problems are. A serious lack of education in First Nations, and Canadian History.

Belief is not a fact, sorry.
You should be, because in a court of law, 'belief' is very much part of the process.

[/quote]Beliefs like many other things, such as dated social ideas, can be challenged and have to be for democracy and progress.[/QUOTE]Thank God we have laws that prevent the mob rule you so eagerly seek.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
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Privatizing is an excellent euphamism for giving Canadians the opportunity to relinquish responsibility for all those extra expenses/discounts ... unless it's going to turn into one of those long discussions where everything is settled and then it has to be redone from the beginning. That's a waste of time and money. I'm in favour of privatizing the Reserves such that they deal directly with their preferred organization and the federal government has nothing to do with it whatsoever.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
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I'm in favour of privatizing the Reserves such that they deal directly with their preferred organization and the federal government has nothing to do with it whatsoever.
What do you mean by privatizing?

Treat them like municipalities.
Ahhh, the ever vigilant concepts and bigotries of colonialism.

Aren't you putting the cart before the horse? Shouldn't the very first question be, what Nations are required and what is the minimum level of service that is required? That's the difference between you and I. When it comes to problem solving, I like to start at the beginning and work my way logically through the problem. It may be more difficult than the generalizations you use, but in the long run, I think the extra effort is worth it.

That's a good idea ... let the privatization lead to self-governance and self-reliance.
Which one is a good idea, incorporation or privatization?
 
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Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
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What do you mean by privatizing?

Ahhh, the ever vigilant concepts and bigotries of colonialism.

Aren't you putting the cart before the horse? Shouldn't the very first question be, what Nations are required and what is the minimum level of service that is required? That's the difference between you and I. When it comes to problem solving, I like to start at the beginning and work my way logically through the problem. It may be more difficult than the generalizations you use, but in the long run, I think the extra effort is worth it.

Which one is a good idea, incorporation or privatization?

Not at all. The cart is already out of the blocks and no one really cares whether the horse or the cart came out first ... the minimum required ought to have been sorted out in the last hundred years or so. Is the expectation that Reserves are perpetually supported by and reliant on the Canadian government, or do they want some sort of sovereignty such that they are autonomous, can travel freely without passports and can function within our politically correct, multicultural country? If Reserves have special consideration, should all Canadian cultures have special privileges, or does it become the responsibility, at some point, of our multicultural groups to be self-sustaining?
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
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Not at all. The cart is already out of the blocks and no one really cares whether the horse or the cart came out first ... the minimum required ought to have been sorted out in the last hundred years or so. Is the expectation that Reserves are perpetually supported by and reliant on the Canadian government, or do they want some sort of sovereignty such that they are autonomous, can travel freely without passports and can function within our politically correct, multicultural country? If Reserves have special consideration, should all Canadian cultures have special privileges, or does it become the responsibility, at some point, of our multicultural groups to be self-sustaining?

Ok, so just off the top of my head.

It's a false assumption that no one really cares. Perhaps you meant to say that you don't care? But many do, count me amongst them.

Are you under the assumption that the Reserves receive money from the Federal Government out of the goodness of it's heart? Here's a hint, the funding is actually a payment owed under a contract. A contract which, by the way, has prominent mention within the constitution. They are not living on our land, it's the other way around.

Lastly, First Nations are First Nations because they were first. Not just another cultural group within our society. I'd go so far as to say that without them, our society would not be our society as we've come to know it.

Now, I will openly admit that I'm not completely knowledgable about all the particulars of treaty obligations. I'm not certain whether privatization necessarily means giving up rights under a treaty. But I do understand the basics and the history enough to know that this is not a simple thing to change.