Praying versus acting

[kowalskil]

The following advice is from a prayer book:

"Pray as if everything depended upon God, act as if everything depended on you."

I think that this is consistent with the idea of NOMA, formulated by the biologist Stephen Gould. We exist in the material world; God exists in the spiritual world.

The context in which the idea of NOMA was formulated is summarized in my article about futile conflicts between theists and atheists:

atheist

 

[Cliffy]

Can a spiritual person be an atheist? Can a theist still be spiritual? To me, religion is the antithesis of spirituality more so than atheism. A spiritual person does not need gods. My spirituality grew out of my personal experiences of life. From my perspective, both religion and science are dogmatic and although there is much that I disagree with in both, I have no reason to quarrel with either. Where I take exception with both is when they assert their superiority over each other or (among the religious) among themselves (my religion is better than yours).

 

[gopher]

The Bible says a man can have NOTHING unless God gives it to him.

In other words, the supposed god exists in the world and is fully responsible for everything.

 

[Cliffy]

The Bible says a man can have NOTHING unless God gives it to him.

In other words, the supposed god exists in the world and is fully responsible for everything.

And Man is fully responsible for creating god and the bible. So who is responsible for everything?

 

[JLM]

The following advice is from a prayer book:

"Pray as if everything depended upon God, act as if everything depended on you."

I think that this is consistent with the idea of NOMA, formulated by the biologist Stephen Gould. We exist in the material world; God exists in the spiritual world.

The context in which the idea of NOMA was formulated is summarized in my article about futile conflicts between theists and atheists:

atheist

Don't take any chances....................do both!

 

[darkbeaver]

The following advice is from a prayer book:

"Pray as if everything depended upon God, act as if everything depended on you."

I think that this is consistent with the idea of NOMA, formulated by the biologist Stephen Gould. We exist in the material world; God exists in the spiritual world.

The context in which the idea of NOMA was formulated is summarized in my article about futile conflicts between theists and atheists:

atheist

" Pray as if everything depended upon God, and act as if everything depended upon you."

There is no contradiction. The only God contemplated by the earliest writings was that energizing spark of God in every individual human and your expertise in the dual relationship between mind (spirit) and matter (body). Always the ancients instructed in the theology of mind (god) over (matter) beast. Always the instruction was to seek God within. There is no approach to God except the esoteric. Everything depends on the fragment of God in you. You are God. Haven't you been instructed to become more Godlike in all that you do? So does self consciousness evolve a body or does a body evolve a self consciousness?

?

The Bible says a man can have NOTHING unless God gives it to him.

In other words, the supposed god exists in the world and is fully responsible for everything.

You could substitute Nature for God and have certainty and be done with supposing. Praying or thinking at the self conscience level is an act physically demonstrated by the associated brain waves. Thinking and acting are not separate things.

 

[damngrumpy]

If God knows everything then why would I need to pray for anything?
I don't beg so I guess the prayer thing is not top of my agenda

 

[JLM]

If God knows everything then why would I need to pray for anything?
I don't beg so I guess the prayer thing is not top of my agenda

Yeah, it's kind of like chicken soup, probably won't do a hell of a lot of good, but probably won't do a hell of a lot of harm either!.

 

[lone wolf]

Is that praying ... or begging?

 

[damngrumpy]

I don't beg and I don't spend much time with the prayer thing either
Depend on one's self determination, I have enough faith in myself I
guess

 

[SLM]

If God knows everything then why would I need to pray for anything?
I don't beg so I guess the prayer thing is not top of my agenda

I'm curious, why do you assume prayer has to be "for" something? I've always viewed prayer as a form of momentary reflection or quiet meditation. Whether it is directed inward or to some higher power just depends upon the beliefs of the individual.

 

[Sal]

I view prayer as connecting with self and the energy/higher power/universe out there. I use it to center myself and meditate on what action I should be taking and how best to approach it.

 

[JLM]

I view prayer as connecting with self and the energy/higher power/universe out there. I use it to center myself and meditate on what action I should be taking and how best to approach it.

Whatever works, eh? You know there's gotta be someone running the joint who's a lot smarter than the human animal.

 

[Sal]

Whatever works, eh? You know there's gotta be someone running the joint who's a lot smarter than the human animal.

I agree with that.

I am into the ebb and flow of energy etc. I am a huge believer in whatever we put out there is what we pull back to ourselves. I also believe our thoughts are incredibly powerful so we have to be mindful of how we treat others (in every way) , what we speak, how we act and what we think. It all matters and all produces results in some manner.

Basically I believe we shape our reality/universe.

 

[JLM]

I agree with that.

I am into the ebb and flow of energy etc. I am a huge believer in whatever we put out there is what we pull back to ourselves. I also believe our thoughts are incredibly powerful so we have to be mindful of how we treat others (in every way) , what we speak, how we act and what we think. It all matters and all produces results in some manner.

Basically I believe we shape our reality/universe.

All good stuff, Sal..............I'm not particularly religious but a lot times what "goes around comes around"!

 

[Sal]

All good stuff, Sal..............I'm not particularly religious but a lot times what "goes around comes around"!

yes I do believe we decide "what comes around" but I have a kind of "out there" belief system...

 

[SLM]

yes I do believe we decide "what comes around" but I have a kind of "out there" belief system...

You reap what you sow. It's not that "out there".

 

[Sal]

You reap what you sow. It's not that "out there".

Yes you are right, it is pretty traditional actually. There are a lot of biblical beliefs/sayings/writings that I would support. Lots of wisdom there.

 

[kowalskil]

Thank you for interesting replies. Here is the entire prayer:

Pray as if everything depended upon God, act as if everything depended on you.

Prayer invites God to let the Divine presence suffuse our spirits, to let the Divine will prevail in our lives.

Prayer cannot bring water to parched fields, nor mend a broken bridge, nor rebuild a ruined city;

but prayer can water an arid soul, mend a broken heart, and rebuild a weakened will.

Best wishes to all,

Ludwik

 

[karrie]

If God knows everything then why would I need to pray for anything?
I don't beg so I guess the prayer thing is not top of my agenda

Geez, I haven't prayed 'for' anything since I was a kid. I sat in church one day and looked around at all the bent heads, the looks of concentration, and my mind tried to extrapolate that one small church, outward to all the churches across the world, heads bent, asking for things. And I stopped. I started saying thanks instead. Looking for thank you's I could send regardless of the situation. It offends some people, but boy, I'm glad my egotistic little mind (yes, I thought perhaps god needed little old me to lend him some balance) turned prayer around.