Plane that killed five was overloaded

[Kakato]

I imagine our piper 180 was overloaded most of the time with 4 passengers,full fuel and baggage.I remember my mom telling us to all lean forward at takeoff so we could get off the small runway in BC we flew from.
I never knew if she was joking or serious.

I dont know what single and twin otters will haul but the ones I worked around would take as much stuff as you could fit in them.

 

[#juan]

I imagine our piper 180 was overloaded most of the time with 4 passengers,full fuel and baggage.I remember my mom telling us to all lean forward at takeoff so we could get off the small runway in BC we flew from.
I never knew if she was joking or serious.

I dont know what single and twin otters will haul but the ones I worked around would take as much stuff as you could fit in them.

The thing about the Otters is that they were designed as a STOL (Short Takeoff and Landing) aircraft so they necessarily had a relatively low wing loading so unless you were carrying lead bricks, it was hard to put too much weight in them. The adaptation of the Pratt and Whitney PT-6 turbine engine made them even better.

 

[lone wolf]

On behalf of radial-lovers everywhere .... ouch!

 

[Kakato]

The thing about the Otters is that they were designed as a STOL (Short Takeoff and Landing) aircraft so they necessarily had a relatively low wing loading so unless you were carrying lead bricks, it was hard to put too much weight in them. The adaptation of the Pratt and Whitney PT-6 turbine engine made them even better.

Is that what they call Walter equipped?

As for short takeoffs and landings,i can only shake my head at some of the one's I have seen,I built a kilometer long airstrip for them and they rarely got past the barrels that marked the start of the strip.
I think the single would pack six 45 gallon fuel drums.not sure if that was max load for weight or space.

YouTube - otter quick take off

 

[#juan]

Is that what they call Walter equipped?

As for short takeoffs and landings,i can only shake my head at some of the one's I have seen,I built a kilometer long airstrip for them and they rarely got past the barrels that marked the start of the strip.
I think the single would pack six 45 gallon fuel drums.not sure if that was max load for weight or space.

YouTube - otter quick take off

I haven't heard that term before. The Turbo beaver and Otter as well as the Pilatus all use the Pratt and Whitney Canada turbine engine. For a time PWC owned that particular market segment.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

On behalf of radial-lovers everywhere .... ouch!

Never flew a turbine single, my first turbine was the Twin Otter. I have old videos of the Beaver and Single Otter, but the best sound came from the Norseman, and the only video I have of it was taken of me taking one for a test flight after it was rebuilt, and the engine sound was drowned out by a two stroke Rupp pump.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Is that what they call Walter equipped?

As for short takeoffs and landings,i can only shake my head at some of the one's I have seen,I built a kilometer long airstrip for them and they rarely got past the barrels that marked the start of the strip.
I think the single would pack six 45 gallon fuel drums.not sure if that was max load for weight or space.

Even the piston one got off quickly. If I remember correctly, it would hold 85 gallons in the centre tank, which you filled first and used last, 65 in the front and 45 in the rear, which were left empty unless needed. I can't remember the exact numbers. I rarely used the front or rear tanks, filling them all could keep you in the air for over 9 hours if you were careful, way beyond my bladder capacity.

I regularly hauled 6 - 7 45's, off water, not land, to supply fire camps, (which I loaded and unloaded myself). I'm digging through my memory here now, it had a max take off weight of 8000 lbs, can't remember the empty weight. But when we fitted it with bomber tanks it was a very effective fire fighter with quick turnaround times, not needing such long lakes as the Canso did, ( the CL-215 wasn't even thought of yet). The tanks held 100 gallons of water each, which is 2000 lbs, not a lot of water, but a lot of fun.

 

[Kakato]

Even the piston one got off quickly. If I remember correctly, it would hold 85 gallons in the centre tank, which you filled first and used last, 65 in the front and 45 in the rear, which were left empty unless needed. I can't remember the exact numbers. I rarely used the front or rear tanks, filling them all could keep you in the air for over 9 hours if you were careful, way beyond my bladder capacity.

I regularly hauled 6 - 7 45's, off water, not land, to supply fire camps, (which I loaded and unloaded myself). I'm digging through my memory here now, it had a max take off weight of 8000 lbs, can't remember the empty weight. But when we fitted it with bomber tanks it was a very effective fire fighter with quick turnaround times, not needing such long lakes as the Canso did, ( the CL-215 wasn't even thought of yet). The tanks held 100 gallons of water each, which is 2000 lbs, not a lot of water, but a lot of fun.

My otter pilot for 3 years was a great guy and still flying for ookpik,our twin otter flights were all Ken Borak and once a year we would get a herc in with a c-can on the ice.
Unlike Yellowknife and parts west the ice here was ten feet thick.
I love flying,my brother was the youngest pilot in Canada for a day,my mom became a pilot at 35,then went commercial and instructor and trained the air cadets for many years here,my dad became a pilot at 50.

My mom stopped flying when her boyfriend crashed head first into the rocky mountains in southern Alberta while training someone doing canyon turns and lost the instruments.
We had a low wing piper 180 which sucked but it only cost $6000.00 back then.
A high wing would have been much nicer.

I fly when they let me,sans licence!
If I ever win the lottery I'm buying an a-star,and an otter.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

My otter pilot for 3 years was a great guy and still flying for ookpik,our twin otter flights were all Ken Borak and once a year we would get a herc in with a c-can on the ice.
Unlike Yellowknife and parts west the ice here was ten feet thick.
I love flying,my brother was the youngest pilot in Canada for a day,my mom became a pilot at 35,then went commercial and instructor and trained the air cadets for many years here,my dad became a pilot at 50.

My mom stopped flying when her boyfriend crashed head first into the rocky mountains in southern Alberta while training someone doing canyon turns and lost the instruments.
We had a low wing piper 180 which sucked but it only cost $6000.00 back then.
A high wing would have been much nicer.

I fly when they let me,sans licence!
If I ever win the lottery I'm buying an a-star,and an otter.

My internet is acting up so the video is jerky, I'll have to watch it later, but it brings back memories yet.

I assume you had a Cherokee 180, they were a nice airplane, a bit stiff legged on landing, but stable. I actually preferred them over high wings in rough weather and strong winds.

I lost my best friend when I was 22 or 23 thereabouts, he was only a year older than me, he had a wing come off a Beaver. It sux, I've since lost 8 other friends and several aquaintances. It was a dangerous job and I'm surprised I'm still here. I lost my nerve a couple of times but kept going back.

 

[Kakato]

My internet is acting up so the video is jerky, I'll have to watch it later, but it brings back memories yet.

I assume you had a Cherokee 180, they were a nice airplane, a bit stiff legged on landing, but stable. I actually preferred them over high wings in rough weather and strong winds.

I lost my best friend when I was 22 or 23 thereabouts, he had a wing come off a Beaver. It sux, I've since lost 8 other friends and several aquaintances. It was a dangerous job and I'm surprised I'm still here. I lost my nerve a couple of times but kept going back.

It was a piper cherokee called snowbird after jls.
She had a picture of a seagull on the front of it.
I remember flying out of Elko BC at 1 in the morning heading to Estevan Sask.,she could fly without instruments but it still scared the hell out of me.
Then at 9000 feet the door popped open and her boyfriend had to hold it in untill we landed 2 hours later.He was allmost 220 pounds and a good thing he was.
Good times! Just glad I wasnt with the bro when he took the prop out on a landing.
I still rib him about that.

Have to admit,it's allways nice to have wings.:lol:

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Have to admit,it's allways nice to have wings.:lol:

Funny how hard livin', grief, terror and disaster can give you a twisted sense of humour, and mine isn't always appreciated by everyone, but they haven't lived my life either. (Helo and fixed wingers do rib each other). Funny thing, when I was voluntold to fly the Beaver, (I was the Noresman/Otter driver) we first had to comply with an Airworthiness Directive which required us to remove the struts and check the fittings for cracks because someone in Ontario lost a wing because that operator failed to comply with the same AD. Yup, the same operator that cost my buddy his life.

 

[#juan]

I'm running around a bit here. The old Otter was the only airplane I ever saw fly backwards. One of the older hands was landing in a really stiff, steady, head wind. What I assume he did was throttle back until the wind was losing him a bit of headway. From the ground it looked like he was standing still at 300 feet or flying backwards very slowly.

 

[lone wolf]

I'm running around a bit here. The old Otter was the only airplane I ever saw fly backwards. One of the older hands was landing in a really stiff, steady, head wind. What I assume he did was throttle back until the wind was losing him a bit of headway. From the ground it looked like he was standing still at 300 feet or flying backwards very slowly.

Ever seen the Feisler (?) Storch? In a relatively light wind it can do the same ... and take-off almost vertically

 

[Kakato]

Funny how hard livin', grief, terror and disaster can give you a twisted sense of humour, and mine isn't always appreciated by everyone, but they haven't lived my life either. (Helo and fixed wingers do rib each other). Funny thing, when I was voluntold to fly the Beaver, (I was the Noresman/Otter driver) we first had to comply with an Airworthiness Directive which required us to remove the struts and check the fittings for cracks because someone in Ontario lost a wing because that operator failed to comply with the same AD. Yup, the same operator that cost my buddy his life.

You have to have a twisted sense of humour,
Ever got "otterback"?

I allways gave the heli pilots a hard time,just not in the air when they cranked uo rolling stones on the headphones and asked if I wanted to "play"

Hellya! low level or high level,dont care,just do it!

 

[bobnoorduyn]

You have to have a twisted sense of humour,
Ever got "otterback"?

I allways gave the heli pilots a hard time,just not in the air when they cranked uo rolling stones on the headphones and asked if I wanted to "play"

Hellya! low level or high level,dont care,just do it!

Not sure what you're gettin' at, must be newer jokes. But I used to love playing Laura Brannigan while bombing.

I loved playing little jokes, especialy with "pavement pilots" who would look at my broken fuel gauges, which always read empty, and ask if we had enough gas to make it. I would tap the gauges, look at them intently and depending on my mood would say either, "oh sure, we have plenty", or "I sure hope so".

Sometimes I could make a glassy water landing so smooth that no one noticed, except me, and would step taxi all the way to the dock with everyone thinking we were still in the air. In my peripheral vision I could watch as everyone leaned back expecting a firm whollop when we hit a large immoveable object close to shore, they didn't even know we had landed. When I chopped the throttle and the airplane slowed abruptly but smoothly there was quite a collective sigh, and quite a bit of laughter from me.

Or faking disgust and acting scatterbrained, while studying and old outdated map, madly crumpling it up and chucking it out the window, then saying, "screw it, I'm going with my gut" really got the tourists worried.

But I haven't walked onto an airplane, with dark glasses and a red tipped white cane and tapped my way to the front and take my seat. One guy I know of did just that, the flight attendants thought it was funny, but the company took a dimmer view. But that was then, I think it only generated a memo.

I'm still a bit twisted.

 

[#juan]

Interesting item:

Although there are countless airplane accidents, structural failure is one of the least common causes. But it has not been a rarity with the Piper Malibu. Since it came to market in 1983, the Malibu and its derivatives have been involved in 12 crashes in which the airplane came apart in midair, killing everyone aboard. (Between 980 and 1,000 of the airplanes have been built.)

This would not be good news for owners of this particular model.