Obama: Throw Mubarak under the Bus!

[TenPenny]

Even if that means the electing of radical Islamic fundamentalists?

Once again, we have that sticking point. Democracy is only allowed if we approve of the candidates. Otherwise, those silly ignorant Egyptians might elect someone that we don't approve of. And we can't have that.

Why should we sit idly by and let mad men, duly elected or otherwise take power, only to fill more body bags?

The whole freedom and democracy concept is lost on you, is it?

 

[CDNBear]

Once again, we have that sticking point. Democracy is only allowed if we approve of the candidates.

No, I approve of democracy. Full stop.

Otherwise, those silly ignorant Egyptians might elect someone that we don't approve of.

People do "silly ignorant" things when they're desperate. That doesn't make the outcome more palatable.

And we can't have that.

I'm not saying they can't. I'm asking what do you do?

Every country with a fundamentalist Islamic gov't, is scary. Non?

The whole freedom and democracy concept is lost on you, is it?

TP, I'm going to ignore your snide comment. You continuously complain about my commentary, and yet here you are, poking the Bear.

Are you looking for a fight?

I'm just asking questions, nothing is lost on me. Well perhaps how you can cry about me being bellicose, then trying to pick a fight with me.

 

[earth_as_one]

I'm proud that during WW II, my grandfather signed up in the armed forces to fight for freedom, justice and democracy. The Egyptian revolution is the same fight with the same goals.

Some people obviously support the dictator. But its hard to come out and say that you support an oppressive dictator and would support a brutal crack down, which would likely end in a mass slaughter. Instead they resort to irrational fear mongering and personal attacks in support of tyranny, oppression and injustice.

 

[TenPenny]

If you approve of democracy, full stop, then you allow other countries to elect who they want.

Just because you think you're some big scary guy who shouldn't be poked, don't fool yourself that others think you're of any more importance or intelligence than anyone else. You have a carefully created image, but that's all it is.

 

[CDNBear]

If you approve of democracy, full stop, then you allow other countries to elect who they want.

Can you show me where I attempted to stop them from electing whomever?

I advocate for restraint and clearer thinking, before making rash decisions that may end in worse conditions then they already suffer.

Just because you think you're some big scary guy who shouldn't be poked, don't fool yourself that others think you're of any more importance or intelligence than anyone else.

I don't think I'm big scary or anything other then who and what I am.

You have a carefully created image, but that's all it is.

You are most entitled to your opinion. But that hardly explains why you cry about my bellicose nature, then try and pick a fight. Seems quite disingenuous. Hypocritical even.

But mostly silly if you were to ask me. I hope I won't have to read anymore your tearful crying about how rude and so on I am in the future.

But its hard to come out and say that you support an oppressive dictator and would support a brutal crack down, which would likely end in a mass slaughter.

Kind of like the one state solution eh?

Instead they resort to irrational fear mongering and personal attacks in support of tyranny, oppression and injustice.

Really? I don't support Mubarak. I do support realism and critical thought.

I hope that the people of Egypt get a gov't that is actually beneficial to them.

I don't see a fundamentalist one being such.

BTW EAO, your whole post is a personal attack, against anyone that doesn't agree with you. So STFU with the whiny sh!t already.

 

[earth_as_one]

For some people, freedom and democracy are platitudes.

The people who support freedom, democracy and support the will of the Egyptian people to overthrow their dictator can say so clearly.

People who support Egypt remaining a brutal oppressive dictatorship can't come out and say it, since few people would buy it. Instead they have to resort to spin and fear mongering, while claiming they abstractly support freedom and democracy, just not in this specific case.

Either you support freedom and democracy as a fundamental human right or you don't.

Your true colors are showing CB.

 

[El Barto]

And how exactly will you feel when the body bags start gracing the evening news?

I do agree with the premise of your post, we should not install democracy anywhere, nor should we meddle in it at all.

But sometimes, is there not some justification in doing so, when to do nothing would certainly lead to an astonishing loss of life?

A very delicate question. Sometimes doing something could lead to some severe backlash. If there was an official invitation to go help, then (depending) we would have to go , but would we be ready to take the blame if it goes wrong?

 

[TenPenny]

Is it our job to overcome the democratic will of the people in a foreign country?

As far as I'm concerned, the Egyptian people, just like the Americans, should be allowed to vote for whatever government they choose, whether we like it or not. If that government turns out to become an oppressive dictatorship in future, well, that's what they wanted. If the people then want a change, and want our help, we'll have to consider that at the time.

 

[CDNBear]

For some people, freedom and democracy are platitudes.

You being an exellent example.

The people who support freedom, democracy and support the will of the Egyptian people to overthrow their dictator can say so clearly.

Do you have some problem with cognitive skills? I'll say it again, maybe this time you'll understand it. I do not support Mubarak.

People who support Egypt remaining a brutal oppressive dictatorship can't come out and say it, since few people would buy it. Instead they have to resort to spin and fear mongering, while claiming they abstractly support freedom and democracy, just not in this specific case.

I support it in this specific case and hope Egypt elects a gov't that benefits its people. Not start needless wars, circumcise young women, force men to wear beards, and stone 9 year old rape victims to death. That isn't fear mongering EAO, that is what happens in an Islamic state, where the there is no separation from church and state.

Either you support freedom and democracy as a fundamental human right or you don't.

I do, I know you don't. Which is why you support Hama, a group that came to power by throwing its opponents off roofs.

Your true colors are showing CB.

I know what my colours are EAO. It's you that hasn't clue one what yours are. But thanx for the personal attack anyways. I'll remember this post the next time I see you whining about being called a Nazi sympathizer.

A very delicate question.

Dear Gawd, someone gets it. Thanx EB.

Sometimes doing something could lead to some severe backlash.

I agree. Hence my delicate stance here. I'm no fan of anything stemming from the Muslim Brotherhood. But I'm very much a proponent of freedom and democracy.

If there was an official invitation to go help, then (depending) we would have to go , but would we be ready to take the blame if it goes wrong?

No one is ever truly ready for blame. But in this case, the west will be damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

If Egypt elects a repressive regime, that starts another war with Israel, slaughters its non Muslim citizens, and so on. The west will be accused of sitting idly by and doing nothing to stop it.

 

[El Barto]

who would ever want an oppressive dictator?

 

[CDNBear]

Is it our job to overcome the democratic will of the people in a foreign country?

Nope. I just hope they make a good choice. One that wil benefit Egypt and the people.

As far as I'm concerned, the Egyptian people, just like the Americans, should be allowed to vote for whatever government they choose, whether we like it or not. If that government turns out to become an oppressive dictatorship in future, well, that's what they wanted.

You know what TP, I fully agree.

I just hope they contain the suffering to Egypt and those that voted for them.

If the people then want a change, and want our help, we'll have to consider that at the time.

Excellent idea. You could have said that when I asked you several posts ago.

who would ever want an oppressive dictator?

No body ever wants one, but some people need one. Iraq was a prime example of that.

 

[TenPenny]

Excellent idea. You could have said that when I asked you several posts ago.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I was required to answer to your bidding. You must have me confused with some of the cowering masses trembling at your feet.

 

[El Barto]

Bottom line is respective the soveriegnty of another country. The U.S. has backed up Mubarak but now is dancing to a different tune as they supposed to stand for Democracy and freedom. This is their delicate sitiation tho the implication will affect us all.

 

[CDNBear]

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that I was required to answer to your bidding.

Really?

You truly are a sad little man TP. I thought there was hope in some form of peace. I guess only one of us is the bigger man.

You must have me confused with some of the cowering masses trembling at your feet.

No, I had you confused for a mature man.

Boy was I mistaken.

 

[TenPenny]

Really?

You truly are a sad little man TP. I thought there was hope in some form of peace. I guess only one of us is the bigger man.

No, I had you confused for a mature man.

Boy was I mistaken.

You may well be the bigger man, but being fat doesn't count for much.

 

[CDNBear]

Bottom line is respective the soveriegnty of another country.

Yes. But! If that sovereignty may affect surrounding country's health and well being, couldn't one say preventing a repressive group like the Muslim Brotherhood from gaining power, was a good thing?

The U.S. has backed up Mubarak but now is dancing to a different tune as they supposed to stand for Democracy and freedom.

On the flip side of the coin, the Muslim Brotherhood, isn't really about democracy or freedom. So saying they should be kept off the ballot, could be taken as supporting freedom and democracy.

This is their delicate sitiation tho the implication will affect us all.

Most likely. Gas prices will likely be affected, for one area that will affect us.

Just call me the devils advocate.

You may well be the bigger man, but being fat doesn't count for much.

How mature. I guess my PM went right over your head.

TP, I love it when you prove me right...

I guess that makes me the bigger man, both figuratively, and literally...

 

[gerryh]

I'm proud that during WW II, my grandfather signed up in the armed forces to fight for freedom, justice and democracy. The Egyptian revolution is the same fight with the same goals.

Some people obviously support the dictator. But its hard to come out and say that you support an oppressive dictator and would support a brutal crack down, which would likely end in a mass slaughter. Instead they resort to irrational fear mongering and personal attacks in support of tyranny, oppression and injustice.

Really? You supported the over throw of the democratically elected government of Germany at that time? Yet you don't advocate the same thing when it comes to middle eastern country's? A little 2 faced eao?

 

[CDNBear]

Really? You supported the over throw of the democratically elected government of Germany at that time? Yet you don't advocate the same thing when it comes to middle eastern country's? A little 2 faced eao?

Nice volley GH!!!!

 

[El Barto]

Yes. But! If that sovereignty may affect surrounding country's health and well being, couldn't one say preventing a repressive group like the Muslim Brotherhood from gaining power, was a good thing?

On the flip side of the coin, the Muslim Brotherhood, isn't really about democracy or freedom. So saying they should be kept off the ballot, could be taken as supporting freedom and democracy.

Most likely. Gas prices will likely be affected, for one area that will affect us.

Just call me the devils advocate.

Pushing out the fundamentalist from the ballot can have an adverse effect too, form Egypt and surrounding countries.
This is going to be very interesting seeing how it plays out.
There may be no middle road on this one.

 

[Kreskin]

Yeah...Obama ain't much good at this stuff.

How's having a community organizer as president working out? - Ezra Levant

I listened to Shimon Petes, President of Israel, this morning on CBC. He said simply that, for all his faults, Mubarak was a friend of peace..........and that war is inevitable if the Muslim Brotherhood comes to power in Egypt.

What a friggin joke. Reagan was in when Sadat was assassinated and Mubarak took over.

Obama's doing a helluva good job on this. There are Republicans who agree on that too.