Nation may lose £3.5m Shakespeare first edition
- Thread starter Blackleaf
- Start date
RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
But you know what I mean, keeping on about the british empire and the way they treated other countries is fine and well...but you have to look at it in the context and time it was in.
I'm not ashamed to say my country once had the biggest empire the world has ever known, not entirely built on slavery or the threat of WMD's....I just simply get touchy when people bang on about how bad they were...ok the other way too...i.e. Master Blackleaf, but I refuse to accept people like my great-grand parents were evil wicked colonialists because they were british in the zenith of the british empire...it simply wasnt like being german during the second world war.
you know what I mean right?
But you know what I mean, keeping on about the british empire and the way they treated other countries is fine and well...but you have to look at it in the context and time it was in.
I'm not ashamed to say my country once had the biggest empire the world has ever known, not entirely built on slavery or the threat of WMD's....I just simply get touchy when people bang on about how bad they were...ok the other way too...i.e. Master Blackleaf, but I refuse to accept people like my great-grand parents were evil wicked colonialists because they were british in the zenith of the british empire...it simply wasnt like being german during the second world war.
you know what I mean right?
Yes Daz I know what you mean, but you complain about this, and I have to sit here reading peoples crap about the US in 1776 (hell even before that, for some) through today and what f.uckups the US has in store for us in the future.
It's as if change of govenrments and people never happen, it's just a string of endless corruption, greed and interests.
Yes I know exactly what you mean.
It's as if change of govenrments and people never happen, it's just a string of endless corruption, greed and interests.
Yes I know exactly what you mean.
RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
very true.....
I think it's maybe a clash of cultures
I agree, I just think that there is a side of history that seems somewhat in the closet, the british view of the independence war for example, I mean, your taught about it, it's something historians over here shy away from, although I think they shouldnt, for example how each succesive british prime-minister was against the war and how our King was on the same powertrip we tried to stop in the magna carta.
Did you know the british school system has only JUST allowed for the teaching of the british empire?, I think why people like myself and blackleaf bang on about this nonsense is that it's a bit of a taboo subject here.
as I say, sorry about that...........Although, here's something local to me that might interest you, my town, southampton, until recently had a HUGE memorial errected where the Mayflower and the pilgrims left for the new world from the west quay docks in southampton...it's just been destroyed to make way for a shopping complex on the quay........thats a decent example of greed and self interest....shameful really, I just hope they dont do the same to the titanic or Benny Hill memorials!!!
very true.....
I think it's maybe a clash of cultures
I agree, I just think that there is a side of history that seems somewhat in the closet, the british view of the independence war for example, I mean, your taught about it, it's something historians over here shy away from, although I think they shouldnt, for example how each succesive british prime-minister was against the war and how our King was on the same powertrip we tried to stop in the magna carta.
Did you know the british school system has only JUST allowed for the teaching of the british empire?, I think why people like myself and blackleaf bang on about this nonsense is that it's a bit of a taboo subject here.
as I say, sorry about that...........Although, here's something local to me that might interest you, my town, southampton, until recently had a HUGE memorial errected where the Mayflower and the pilgrims left for the new world from the west quay docks in southampton...it's just been destroyed to make way for a shopping complex on the quay........thats a decent example of greed and self interest....shameful really, I just hope they dont do the same to the titanic or Benny Hill memorials!!!
No, I had no idea they tore down the memorial, I do remember reading about it though. We have a titanic memorial in Manhattan also, about 60 feet high, if I remember correctly.
It's funny you mentioned the Mayflower, I just bought a book on it.
It's funny you mentioned the Mayflower, I just bought a book on it.
RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
yep here it is....or was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Southampton-MayflowerMemorial.jpg
Our Titanic Memorial has 2 sailors who look like they are trying to lock some sort of gates with 2 lists of the dead next to em.
yeah people in my town get a bit frustrated when people state that the mayflower sailed from playmouth, when in fact it only stopped at plymouth for repairs.
I am pleased theyve finally got round to erecting a statue of old Benny Hill though.....perhaps they shouldnt bother with the craig David or Drummer from Coldplay though lol
yep here it is....or was:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Southampton-MayflowerMemorial.jpg
Our Titanic Memorial has 2 sailors who look like they are trying to lock some sort of gates with 2 lists of the dead next to em.
yeah people in my town get a bit frustrated when people state that the mayflower sailed from playmouth, when in fact it only stopped at plymouth for repairs.
I am pleased theyve finally got round to erecting a statue of old Benny Hill though.....perhaps they shouldnt bother with the craig David or Drummer from Coldplay though lol
Re: RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
No, they aren't. The Yankee Doodle Dandies are taught the War of Independence with an American bias - such as how they were the heroes fighting against "oppression" (when they lived better than we did) and how they won every single battle during the war (when, in fact, the Americans lost around two thirds of the battles fought against the mightiest and richest power on Earth).
Daz_Hockey said:
No, they aren't. The Yankee Doodle Dandies are taught the War of Independence with an American bias - such as how they were the heroes fighting against "oppression" (when they lived better than we did) and how they won every single battle during the war (when, in fact, the Americans lost around two thirds of the battles fought against the mightiest and richest power on Earth).
I think not said:
You're a fine one to talk.
Are people trying to say that there are NO artefacts in any museum in the WHOLE of North America (which is quite a large area) that doesn't have any treasures of Ancient Egypt, Rome, Greece or any other place outside of North America? If that's the case, I'd better not visit your museums, otherwise the only items of "history" that we'd see on display are objects dating from the 1920s.
Is Britain the only place whose museums have artefacts from outside our country?
Shakespeare first edition sells for £2.8m
13th July 2006
A historic First Folio edition of Shakespeare's plays was today snapped up by a book dealer for £2.8 million at auction.
The "remarkably untouched" 17th Century volume, which probably cost just 20 shillings when printed in 1623, went under the hammer at Sotheby's in London.
A Sotheby's spokeswoman said the lot was bought by a "London book dealer" and added that the sale price of £2,808,000 had included the buyer's premium.
About 750 copies of the First Folio - which has been described as the most important book in English literature - were originally printed.
However, only about a third of them have survived to the present day and most of those are incomplete.
The First Folio, published just seven years after the Bard's death, contains 36 plays, 18 of which had never previously been printed.
Experts believe those 18 plays - including Macbeth, Twelfth Night and Julius Caesar - may have been "lost to posterity" were it not for their appearance in the First Folio.
The copy on sale today was described as one of the "two finest" to appear at auction in London since the Second World War.
It was sold alongside other lots at Sotheby's sale of English literature and history in New Bond Street.
dailymail.co.uk
13th July 2006
A historic First Folio edition of Shakespeare's plays was today snapped up by a book dealer for £2.8 million at auction.
The "remarkably untouched" 17th Century volume, which probably cost just 20 shillings when printed in 1623, went under the hammer at Sotheby's in London.
A Sotheby's spokeswoman said the lot was bought by a "London book dealer" and added that the sale price of £2,808,000 had included the buyer's premium.
About 750 copies of the First Folio - which has been described as the most important book in English literature - were originally printed.
However, only about a third of them have survived to the present day and most of those are incomplete.
The First Folio, published just seven years after the Bard's death, contains 36 plays, 18 of which had never previously been printed.
Experts believe those 18 plays - including Macbeth, Twelfth Night and Julius Caesar - may have been "lost to posterity" were it not for their appearance in the First Folio.
The copy on sale today was described as one of the "two finest" to appear at auction in London since the Second World War.
It was sold alongside other lots at Sotheby's sale of English literature and history in New Bond Street.
dailymail.co.uk
Re: RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
The Mayflower sailed from Plymouth, as you should have been taught in school. That's why the colony that it created in Massachussetts became known as Plymouth.
As it says in Wikipedia -
The Mayflower was the ship that transported the Pilgrims from Plymouth, England, to Plymouth Colony, Massachusetts, in what would become the United States, in 1620. It left Plymouth on September 6 and dropped anchor near Cape Cod on November 11 (both dates according to the Old Style, the Julian Calendar). This voyage was inspired by the successful establishment of the first permanent English settlement, Jamestown (named after King James I), by the London Company of Virginia in 1607.
The Mayflower is also the emblem of the football team Plymouth Argyle, whose nickname is "The Pilgrims."
Daz_Hockey said:
The Mayflower sailed from Plymouth, as you should have been taught in school. That's why the colony that it created in Massachussetts became known as Plymouth.
As it says in Wikipedia -
The Mayflower was the ship that transported the Pilgrims from Plymouth, England, to Plymouth Colony, Massachusetts, in what would become the United States, in 1620. It left Plymouth on September 6 and dropped anchor near Cape Cod on November 11 (both dates according to the Old Style, the Julian Calendar). This voyage was inspired by the successful establishment of the first permanent English settlement, Jamestown (named after King James I), by the London Company of Virginia in 1607.
The Mayflower is also the emblem of the football team Plymouth Argyle, whose nickname is "The Pilgrims."
I think not said:
You mean from the uncivilised masses?
If we can look after the Elgin Marbles better than the Greeks can so that the whole world can see them, keep them in London, I say. God knows what would have happened to them if they has been left in Athens. Vandalised, probably.
I think not said:
No, they weren't a gift. The British bought the Elgin Marbles, so they are ours and we own them. Lord Elgin, British ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, bought the marbles from the Ottoman authorities, so they don't belong to the Greeks anymore. A bit like that American who bought Manchester United - they have been a British institution for many years, they are a symbol of Britain but they are owned by an obese American tycoon. The same goes with the Elgin Marbles. Lord Elgin bought the marbles from the Greeks. So the Greeks demanding that the British give them back is a bit like a used car salesman asking a customer to give him back the car that he has just bought.
And surely if the British returned the Elgin Marbles that would mean that every great museum of the world would have to return their artefacts back to the country of origin.
And before anyone blames the English (as is common amongst ignorant people) for Britain having the Elgin Marbles, I'd like to point out that Lord Elgin, the guy who brought the Elgin Marbles to Britain, was a Scotsman.
Re: RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
BLACKLEAF...............Yes YOU BOY!!!!...I'm calling you out, even most americans know that the Mayflower sailed from SOUTHAMPTON and NOT PLYMOUTH.....
Plymouth likes to CLAIM it sailed from there, but it DID NO SUCH THING...I THOUGHT YOU KNEW ABOUT HISTORY?????....
IT SAILED FROM SOUTHAMPTON, PICKED UP ILLNESSES AND WAS DAMAGED ON THE WAY, SO IT STOPPED OFF IN PLYMOUTH....CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!!!!!
CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!!...
Blackleaf said:Daz_Hockey said:
The Mayflower sailed from Plymouth, as you should have been taught in school. That's why the colony that it created in Massachussetts became known as Plymouth.
As it says in Wikipedia -
The Mayflower was the ship that transported the Pilgrims from Plymouth, England, to Plymouth Colony, Massachusetts, in what would become the United States, in 1620. It left Plymouth on September 6 and dropped anchor near Cape Cod on November 11 (both dates according to the Old Style, the Julian Calendar). This voyage was inspired by the successful establishment of the first permanent English settlement, Jamestown (named after King James I), by the London Company of Virginia in 1607.
The Mayflower is also the emblem of the football team Plymouth Argyle, whose nickname is "The Pilgrims."
BLACKLEAF...............Yes YOU BOY!!!!...I'm calling you out, even most americans know that the Mayflower sailed from SOUTHAMPTON and NOT PLYMOUTH.....
Plymouth likes to CLAIM it sailed from there, but it DID NO SUCH THING...I THOUGHT YOU KNEW ABOUT HISTORY?????....
IT SAILED FROM SOUTHAMPTON, PICKED UP ILLNESSES AND WAS DAMAGED ON THE WAY, SO IT STOPPED OFF IN PLYMOUTH....CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!!!!!
CHECK YOUR FACTS!!!!...
"Pilgrims' voyage
The Mayflower Memorial in Southampton.
Enlarge
The Mayflower Memorial in Southampton.
Initially, the plan was for the voyage to be made in two vessels, the other being the smaller Speedwell. The first voyage of the ships departed Southampton, England, on August 5, 1620; but the Speedwell developed a leak, and had to be refitted at Dartmouth.
On the second attempt, the ships reached the Atlantic, but again were forced to return to Plymouth because of the Speedwell's leak.
After reorganisation, the final 66-day voyage was made by the Mayflower alone. With the crowding of 102 passengers plus crew, each family was allotted very little space for personal belongings.
At one point, the ship's main beam cracked and had to be repaired using a large iron screw.
The Mayflower landed at Renews, on the southern shore of the Avalon Peninsula, in Newfoundland, where it picked up water and supplies from local fishing families before sailing on to Cape Cod.
The intended destination was a section of land in the area near the Hudson River, in "North Virginia". The ship, however, was forced off course by poor weather on this leg of the voyage. (The first leg had enjoyed finer weather.)
As a result of the delay, the settlers did not arrive at the future site of Plymouth Colony until the onset of a harsh, New England winter.
The settlers had failed to reach Virginia, where they had permission from the London Company to settle.
To establish legal order outside of this jurisdiction, and to quell increasing strife within their ranks, the settlers wrote and signed the Mayflower Compact.
On 5 April 1621, the Mayflower set sail from Plymouth Colony to return to England, where she arrived on 6 May 1621."
WIKIPEDIA
And actually there are MANY MORE places named after SOUTHAMPTON in north america than Plymouth
The Mayflower Memorial in Southampton.
Enlarge
The Mayflower Memorial in Southampton.
Initially, the plan was for the voyage to be made in two vessels, the other being the smaller Speedwell. The first voyage of the ships departed Southampton, England, on August 5, 1620; but the Speedwell developed a leak, and had to be refitted at Dartmouth.
On the second attempt, the ships reached the Atlantic, but again were forced to return to Plymouth because of the Speedwell's leak.
After reorganisation, the final 66-day voyage was made by the Mayflower alone. With the crowding of 102 passengers plus crew, each family was allotted very little space for personal belongings.
At one point, the ship's main beam cracked and had to be repaired using a large iron screw.
The Mayflower landed at Renews, on the southern shore of the Avalon Peninsula, in Newfoundland, where it picked up water and supplies from local fishing families before sailing on to Cape Cod.
The intended destination was a section of land in the area near the Hudson River, in "North Virginia". The ship, however, was forced off course by poor weather on this leg of the voyage. (The first leg had enjoyed finer weather.)
As a result of the delay, the settlers did not arrive at the future site of Plymouth Colony until the onset of a harsh, New England winter.
The settlers had failed to reach Virginia, where they had permission from the London Company to settle.
To establish legal order outside of this jurisdiction, and to quell increasing strife within their ranks, the settlers wrote and signed the Mayflower Compact.
On 5 April 1621, the Mayflower set sail from Plymouth Colony to return to England, where she arrived on 6 May 1621."
WIKIPEDIA
And actually there are MANY MORE places named after SOUTHAMPTON in north america than Plymouth
Re: RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
If it stopped off at Plymouth, therefore it sailed to North America from Plymouth, not Southampton.
That's why they named their colony Plymouth, Massachussetts and not Southampton, Massachussetts.
In 1957, a replica of the Mayflower sailed from England to the United States. It started in Plymouth, Devon, and travelled to Plymouth, Massachussetts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayflower, ship
The ship that in 1620 brought the Pilgrims from England to New England. She set out from Southampton in company with the Speedwell, the vessel that had borne some of the English separatists from the Netherlands back to England for the momentous voyage. However, the Speedwell proved unseaworthy, and the ships put back to Plymouth, where the Mayflower took on some of the smaller ship’s passengers and supplies. The Mayflower, under the captaincy of Christopher Jones, then set sail alone on Sept. 16. After a two-month voyage the ship sighted land (Cape Cod) on Nov. 19. Some time was spent in selecting a suitable place for the colony, and on Dec. 26 the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth. Before landing, an agreement for the temporary government of the colony by the will of the majority was drawn up in the famous Mayflower Compact. Much effort has been spent on the identification of the Mayflower. It is known that she was a wineship, of 180 tons burden, and presumed that she was of a type commonly used in that period.
In 1957 a British group sponsored the voyage of a replica of the original Mayflower from Plymouth, England, to Plymouth, Mass. The vessel was given to the United States as an expression of international goodwill and remains on exhibit at Plymouth, Mass.
See studies by W. Charlton (1957) and C. Gill (1970).
bartleby.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, if the ships had to stop in Plymouth for a week or two before going to Massachussetts, then they sailed from Plymouth to Massachussetts. Have you ever stopped an wondered why the English colony they created was called Plymouth and not Southampton?
Daz_Hockey said:
If it stopped off at Plymouth, therefore it sailed to North America from Plymouth, not Southampton.
That's why they named their colony Plymouth, Massachussetts and not Southampton, Massachussetts.
In 1957, a replica of the Mayflower sailed from England to the United States. It started in Plymouth, Devon, and travelled to Plymouth, Massachussetts.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mayflower, ship
The ship that in 1620 brought the Pilgrims from England to New England. She set out from Southampton in company with the Speedwell, the vessel that had borne some of the English separatists from the Netherlands back to England for the momentous voyage. However, the Speedwell proved unseaworthy, and the ships put back to Plymouth, where the Mayflower took on some of the smaller ship’s passengers and supplies. The Mayflower, under the captaincy of Christopher Jones, then set sail alone on Sept. 16. After a two-month voyage the ship sighted land (Cape Cod) on Nov. 19. Some time was spent in selecting a suitable place for the colony, and on Dec. 26 the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth. Before landing, an agreement for the temporary government of the colony by the will of the majority was drawn up in the famous Mayflower Compact. Much effort has been spent on the identification of the Mayflower. It is known that she was a wineship, of 180 tons burden, and presumed that she was of a type commonly used in that period.
In 1957 a British group sponsored the voyage of a replica of the original Mayflower from Plymouth, England, to Plymouth, Mass. The vessel was given to the United States as an expression of international goodwill and remains on exhibit at Plymouth, Mass.
See studies by W. Charlton (1957) and C. Gill (1970).
bartleby.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Obviously, if the ships had to stop in Plymouth for a week or two before going to Massachussetts, then they sailed from Plymouth to Massachussetts. Have you ever stopped an wondered why the English colony they created was called Plymouth and not Southampton?
RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
so it started it's voyage from SOUTHAMPTON then...and NOT Plymouth, which was nothing more than a "port in a storm"...come on, dont insult my town with this ignorance.
It sailed from Southampton, the biggest port in the south, the gateway to the empire, now why would it have gone from plymouth except for a breakdown?.
I could break my car down from home to newcastle, stop in Reading, but my journey was still from Southampton to Newcastle....THESE ARE FACTS
so it started it's voyage from SOUTHAMPTON then...and NOT Plymouth, which was nothing more than a "port in a storm"...come on, dont insult my town with this ignorance.
It sailed from Southampton, the biggest port in the south, the gateway to the empire, now why would it have gone from plymouth except for a breakdown?.
I could break my car down from home to newcastle, stop in Reading, but my journey was still from Southampton to Newcastle....THESE ARE FACTS
RE: Nation may lose £3.5m
Never stopped to wonder why an island half the size of England in northern Canada is called "Southampton", or the "Hamptons" in New England?, so no, it's rubbish, if most schoolboys are taught that it sailed from Plymouth then they are WRONG...
the plan was to sail from southampton...it did sail from southampton, it had to stop for repairs, but it still DOESNT make Plymouth the starting point now does it.
Never stopped to wonder why an island half the size of England in northern Canada is called "Southampton", or the "Hamptons" in New England?, so no, it's rubbish, if most schoolboys are taught that it sailed from Plymouth then they are WRONG...
the plan was to sail from southampton...it did sail from southampton, it had to stop for repairs, but it still DOESNT make Plymouth the starting point now does it.
Blackleaf said:
There you have it everyone, the British Empire mentality summed up in two sentances. It sort of goes over Blackleaf's head that when these treasures were constructed the Brits were trying to figure out the right side of a stone.
Blackleaf said:
No it's not, Britian howver along with France, but to a much lesser extent, stole these artifacts from their colonial territories, approved by your Monarchs.
Blackleaf said:
They bought them? Stick to cut and paste Blackleaf, you're a sorry case for history.