Go visit their website like I did: IPCC
See if you can find anyone critical of GW on it.
Real scientists are critical - flunkies are not.
Melting ice cap could cause sea to rise by seven metres
- Thread starter Praxius
- Start date
Go visit their website like I did: IPCC
See if you can find anyone critical of GW on it.
Real scientists are critical - flunkies are not.
I stumbled across this while reading about the IPCC. This is pretty interesting.
Source: Don't fight, adapt
Open Letter to the Secretary-General of the United Nations
Dec. 13, 2007
His Excellency Ban Ki-Moon
Secretary-General, United Nations
New York, N.Y.
Dear Mr. Secretary-General,
Re: UN climate conference taking the World in entirely the wrong
direction. It is not possible to stop climate change, a natural phenomenon
that has affected humanity through the ages. Geological, archaeological,
oral and written histories all attest to the dramatic challenges posed to past
societies from unanticipated changes in temperature, precipitation, winds
and other climatic variables. We therefore need to equip nations to become
resilient to the full range of these natural phenomena by promoting economic
growth and wealth generation.
The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
has issued increasingly alarming conclusions about the climatic influences of
human-produced carbon dioxide (CO2), a non-polluting gas that is essential
to plant photosynthesis. While we understand the evidence that has led them
to view CO2 emissions as harmful, the IPCC's conclusions are quite inadequate
as justification for implementing policies that will markedly diminish future
prosperity. In particular, it is not established that it is possible to significantly
alter global climate through cuts in human greenhouse gas emissions. On top of
which, because attempts to cut emissions will slow development, the current UN
approach of CO2 reduction is likely to increase human suffering from future climate
change rather than to decrease it.
The IPCC Summaries for Policy Makers are the most widely read IPCC reports
amongst politicians and non-scientists and are the basis for most climate change
policy formulation. Yet these Summaries are prepared by a relatively small core
writing team with the final drafts approved line-by-line by government
representatives. The great majority of IPCC contributors and reviewers, and the
tens of thousands of other scientists who are qualified to comment on these matters,
are not involved in the preparation of these documents. The summaries therefore
cannot properly be represented as a consensus view among experts.
Contrary to the impression left by the IPCC Summary reports:
z Recent observations of phenomena such as glacial retreats, sea-level rise and
the migration of temperature-sensitive species are not evidence for abnormal
climate change, for none of these changes has been shown to lie outside the
bounds of known natural variability.
z The average rate of warming of 0.1 to 0. 2 degrees Celsius per decade
recorded by satellites during the late 20th century falls within known natural
rates of warming and cooling over the last 10,000 years.
z Leading scientists, including some senior IPCC representatives, acknowledge
that today's computer models cannot predict climate. Consistent with this, and
despite computer projections of temperature rises, there has been no net global
warming since 1998. That the current temperature plateau follows a late 20th
-century period of warming is consistent with the continuation today of natural
multi-decadal or millennial climate cycling.
In stark contrast to the often repeated assertion that the science of climate
change is "settled," significant new peer-reviewed research has cast even more
doubt on the hypothesis of dangerous human-caused global warming. But
because IPCC working groups were generally instructed (see
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/docs/wg1_timetable_2006-08-14.pdf) to consider
work published only through May, 2005, these important findings are not included
in their reports; i.e., the IPCC assessment reports are already materially outdated.
The UN climate conference in Bali has been planned to take the world along a path
of severe CO2 restrictions, ignoring the lessons apparent from the failure of the
Kyoto Protocol, the chaotic nature of the European CO2 trading market, and the
ineffectiveness of other costly initiatives to curb greenhouse gas emissions. Balanced
cost/benefit analyses provide no support for the introduction of global measures to
cap and reduce energy consumption for the purpose of restricting CO2 emissions.
Furthermore, it is irrational to apply the "precautionary principle" because many
scientists recognize that both climatic coolings and warmings are realistic possibilities
over the medium-term future.
The current UN focus on "fighting climate change," as illustrated in the Nov. 27 UN
Development Programme's Human Development Report, is distracting governments
from adapting to the threat of inevitable natural climate changes, whatever forms they
may take. National and international planning for such changes is needed, with a focus
on helping our most vulnerable citizens adapt to conditions that lie ahead. Attempts to
prevent global climate change from occurring are ultimately futile, and constitute a tragic
misallocation of resources that would be better spent on humanity's real and pressing
problems.
Yours faithfully,
Don Aitkin, PhD, Professor, social scientist, retired vice-chancellor and president,
University of Canberra, Australia
William J.R. Alexander, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Civil and Biosystems
Engineering, University of Pretoria, South Africa; Member, UN Scientific and
Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, 1994-2000
Bjarne Andresen, PhD, physicist, Professor, The Niels Bohr Institute, University
of Copenhagen, Denmark
Geoff L. Austin, PhD, FNZIP, FRSNZ, Professor, Dept. of Physics, University
of Auckland, New Zealand
Timothy F. Ball, PhD, environmental consultant, former climatology professor,
University of Winnipeg
Ernst-Georg Beck, Dipl. Biol., Biologist, Merian-Schule Freiburg, Germany
Sonja A. Boehmer-Christiansen, PhD, Reader, Dept. of Geography, Hull University,
U.K.; Editor, Energy & Environment journal
Chris C. Borel, PhD, remote sensing scientist, U.S.
Reid A. Bryson, PhD, DSc, DEngr, UNE P. Global 500 Laureate; Senior Scientist,
Center for Climatic Research; Emeritus Professor of Meteorology, of Geography,
and of Environmental Studies, University of Wisconsin
Dan Carruthers, M.Sc., wildlife biology consultant specializing in animal ecology in
Arctic and Subarctic regions, Alberta
R.M. Carter, PhD, Professor, Marine Geophysical Laboratory, James Cook
University, Townsville, Australia
Ian D. Clark, PhD, Professor, isotope hydrogeology and paleoclimatology, Dept.
of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa
Richard S. Courtney, PhD, climate and atmospheric science consultant, IPCC
expert reviewer, U.K
.
Willem de Lange, PhD, Dept. of Earth and Ocean Sciences, School of Science
and Engineering, Waikato University, New Zealand
David Deming, PhD (Geophysics), Associate Professor, College of Arts and
Sciences, University of Oklahoma
Freeman J. Dyson, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Institute for Advanced
Studies, Princeton, N.J.
Don J. Easterbrook, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Geology, Western Washington
University
Lance Endersbee, Emeritus Professor, former dean of Engineering and Pro-Vice
Chancellor of Monasy University, Australia
Hans Erren, Doctorandus, geophysicist and climate specialist, Sittard,
The Netherlands
Robert H. Essenhigh, PhD, E.G. Bailey Professor of Energy Conversion, Dept.
of Mechanical Engineering, The Ohio State University
Christopher Essex, PhD, Professor of Applied Mathematics and Associate Director
of the Program in Theoretical Physics, University of Western Ontario
David Evans, PhD, mathematician, carbon accountant, computer and electrical
engineer and head of ‘Science Speak,' Australia
William Evans, PhD, editor, American Midland Naturalist; Dept. of Biological
Sciences, University of Notre Dame
Stewart Franks, PhD, Professor, Hydroclimatologist, University of Newcastle,
Australia
R. W. Gauldie, PhD, Research Professor, Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and
Planetology, School of Ocean Earth Sciences and Technology, University of
Hawai'i at Manoa
Lee C. Gerhard, PhD, Senior Scientist Emeritus, University of Kansas; former
director and state geologist, Kansas Geological Survey
Gerhard Gerlich, Professor for Mathematical and Theoretical Physics, Institut
für Mathematische Physik der TU Braunschweig, Germany
Albrecht Glatzle, PhD, sc.agr., Agro-Biologist and Gerente ejecutivo, INTTAS,
Paraguay
Fred Goldberg, PhD, Adjunct Professor, Royal Institute of Technology, Mechanical
Engineering, Stockholm, Sweden
Vincent Gray, PhD, expert reviewer for the IPCC and author of The Greenhouse
Delusion: A Critique of ‘Climate Change 2001, Wellington, New Zealand
William M. Gray, Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Atmospheric Science, Colorado
State University and Head of the Tropical Meteorology Project
Howard Hayden, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Connecticut
Louis Hissink MSc, M.A.I.G., editor, AIG News, and consulting geologist, Perth,
Western Australia
Craig D. Idso, PhD, Chairman, Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and
Global Change, Arizona
Sherwood B. Idso, PhD, President, Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and
Global Change, AZ, USA
Andrei Illarionov, PhD, Senior Fellow, Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity;
founder and director of the Institute of Economic Analysis
Zbigniew Jaworowski, PhD, physicist, Chairman - Scientific Council of Central
Laboratory for Radiological Protection, Warsaw, Poland
Jon Jenkins, PhD, MD, computer modelling - virology, NSW, Australia
Wibjorn Karlen, PhD, Emeritus Professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and
Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden
Olavi Kärner, Ph.D., Research Associate, Dept. of Atmospheric Physics, Institute
of Astrophysics and Atmospheric Physics, Toravere, Estonia
Joel M. Kauffman, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Chemistry, University of the
Sciences in Philadelphia
David Kear, PhD, FRSNZ, CMG, geologist, former Director-General of NZ
Dept. of Scientific & Industrial Research, New Zealand
Madhav Khandekar, PhD, former research scientist, Environment Canada; editor,
Climate Research (2003-05); editorial board member, Natural Hazards; IPCC
expert reviewer 2007
William Kininmonth M.Sc., M.Admin., former head of Australia's National Climate
Centre and a consultant to the World Meteorological organization's Commission for
Climatology
Jan J.H. Kop, MSc Ceng FICE (Civil Engineer Fellow of the Institution of Civil Engineers),
Emeritus Prof. of Public Health Engineering, Technical University Delft, The Netherlands
Prof. R.W.J. Kouffeld, Emeritus Professor, Energy Conversion, Delft University of
Technology, The Netherlands
Salomon Kroonenberg, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Geotechnology, Delft University
of Technology, The Netherlands
Hans H.J. Labohm, PhD, economist, former advisor to the executive board,
Clingendael Institute (The Netherlands Institute of International Relations),
The Netherlands
The Rt. Hon. Lord Lawson of Blaby, economist; Chairman of the Central
Europe Trust; former Chancellor of the Exchequer, U.K.
Douglas Leahey, PhD, meteorologist and air-quality consultant, Calgary
David R. Legates, PhD, Director, Center for Climatic Research, University of Delaware
Marcel Leroux, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Climatology, University of Lyon, France;
former director of Laboratory of Climatology, Risks and Environment, CNRS
Bryan Leyland, International Climate Science Coalition, consultant and power engineer,
Auckland, New Zealand
William Lindqvist, PhD, independent consulting geologist, Calif.
Richard S. Lindzen, PhD, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Dept. of Earth,
Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
A.J. Tom van Loon, PhD, Professor of Geology (Quaternary Geology), Adam
Mickiewicz University, Poznan, Poland; former President of the European Association
of Science Editors
Anthony R. Lupo, PhD, Associate Professor of Atmospheric Science, Dept. of Soil,
Environmental, and Atmospheric Science, University of Missouri-Columbia
Richard Mackey, PhD, Statistician, Australia
Horst Malberg, PhD, Professor for Meteorology and Climatology, Institut für Meteorologie,
Berlin, Germany
John Maunder, PhD, Climatologist, former President of the Commission for Climatology of the
World Meteorological Organization (89-97), New Zealand
Alister McFarquhar, PhD, international economy, Downing College, Cambridge, U.K.
Ross McKitrick, PhD, Associate Professor, Dept. of Economics, University of Guelph
John McLean, PhD, climate data analyst, computer scientist, Australia
Owen McShane, PhD, economist, head of the International Climate Science Coalition;
Director, Centre for Resource Management Studies, New Zealand
Fred Michel, PhD, Director, Institute of Environmental Sciences and Associate Professor
of Earth Sciences, Carleton University
Frank Milne, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Economics, Queen's University
Asmunn Moene, PhD, former head of the Forecasting Centre, Meteorological Institute,
Norway
Alan Moran, PhD, Energy Economist, Director of the IPA's Deregulation Unit, Australia
Nils-Axel Morner, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics,
Stockholm University, Sweden
Lubos Motl, PhD, Physicist, former Harvard string theorist, Charles University,
Prague, Czech Republic
John Nicol, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Physics, James Cook University, Australia
David Nowell, M.Sc., Fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society, former chairman
of the NATO Meteorological Group, Ottawa
James J. O'Brien, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Meteorology and Oceanography,
Florida State University
Cliff Ollier, PhD, Professor Emeritus (Geology), Research Fellow, University of
Western Australia
Garth W. Paltridge, PhD, atmospheric physicist, Emeritus Professor and former
Director of the Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies, University of
Tasmania, Australia
R. Timothy Patterson, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences
(paleoclimatology), Carleton University
Al Pekarek, PhD, Associate Professor of Geology, Earth and Atmospheric
Sciences Dept., St. Cloud State University, Minnesota
Ian Plimer, PhD, Professor of Geology, School of Earth and Environmental
Sciences, University of Adelaide and Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences,
University of Melbourne, Australia
Brian Pratt, PhD, Professor of Geology, Sedimentology,
University of Saskatchewan
Harry N.A. Priem, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Planetary Geology and Isotope
Geophysics, Utrecht University; former director of the Netherlands Institute for
Isotope Geosciences
Alex Robson, PhD, Economics, Australian National University Colonel F.P.M.
Rombouts, Branch Chief - Safety, Quality and Environment, Royal Netherland
Air Force
R.G. Roper, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, School of Earth
and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of Technology
Arthur Rorsch, PhD, Emeritus Professor, Molecular Genetics, Leiden University,
The Netherlands
Rob Scagel, M.Sc., forest microclimate specialist, principal consultant, Pacific
Phytometric Consultants, B.C.
Tom V. Segalstad, PhD, (Geology/Geochemistry), Head of the Geological
Museum and Associate Professor of Resource and Environmental Geology,
University of Oslo, Norway
Gary D. Sharp, PhD, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas, CA
S. Fred Singer, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University
of Virginia and former director Weather Satellite Service
L. Graham Smith, PhD, Associate Professor, Dept. of Geography, University
of Western Ontario
Roy W. Spencer, PhD, climatologist, Principal Research Scientist, Earth System
Science Center, The University of Alabama, Huntsville
Peter Stilbs, TeknD, Professor of Physical Chemistry, Research Leader, School
of Chemical Science and Engineering, KTH (Royal Institute of Technology),
Stockholm, Sweden
Hendrik Tennekes, PhD, former director of research, Royal Netherlands
Meteorological Institute
Dick Thoenes, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Chemical Engineering, Eindhoven
University of Technology, The Netherlands
Brian G Valentine, PhD, PE (Chem.), Technology Manager - Industrial Energy
Efficiency, Adjunct Associate Professor of Engineering Science, University of
Maryland at College Park; Dept of Energy, Washington, DC
Gerrit J. van der Lingen, PhD, geologist and paleoclimatologist, climate change
consultant, Geoscience Research and Investigations, New Zealand
Len Walker, PhD, Power Engineering, Australia
Edward J. Wegman, PhD, Department of Computational and Data Sciences,
George Mason University, Virginia
Stephan Wilksch, PhD, Professor for Innovation and Technology Management,
Production Management and Logistics, University of Technolgy and Economics
Berlin, Germany
Boris Winterhalter, PhD, senior marine researcher (retired), Geological Survey
of Finland, former professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, Finland
David E. Wojick, PhD, P.Eng., energy consultant, Virginia
Raphael Wust, PhD, Lecturer, Marine Geology/Sedimentology,
James Cook University, Australia
A. Zichichi, PhD, President of the World Federation of Scientists, Geneva,
Switzerland; Emeritus Professor of Advanced Physics,
University of Bologna, Italy
Copy to: Heads of state of countries of the signatory persons.
______________________________
Source: Don't fight, adapt
Open Letter to the Secretary-General of the United Nations
Dec. 13, 2007
His Excellency Ban Ki-Moon
Secretary-General, United Nations
New York, N.Y.
Dear Mr. Secretary-General,
Re: UN climate conference taking the World in entirely the wrong
direction. It is not possible to stop climate change, a natural phenomenon
that has affected humanity through the ages. Geological, archaeological,
oral and written histories all attest to the dramatic challenges posed to past
societies from unanticipated changes in temperature, precipitation, winds
and other climatic variables. We therefore need to equip nations to become
resilient to the full range of these natural phenomena by promoting economic
growth and wealth generation.
The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
has issued increasingly alarming conclusions about the climatic influences of
human-produced carbon dioxide (CO2), a non-polluting gas that is essential
to plant photosynthesis. While we understand the evidence that has led them
to view CO2 emissions as harmful, the IPCC's conclusions are quite inadequate
as justification for implementing policies that will markedly diminish future
prosperity. In particular, it is not established that it is possible to significantly
alter global climate through cuts in human greenhouse gas emissions. On top of
which, because attempts to cut emissions will slow development, the current UN
approach of CO2 reduction is likely to increase human suffering from future climate
change rather than to decrease it.
The IPCC Summaries for Policy Makers are the most widely read IPCC reports
amongst politicians and non-scientists and are the basis for most climate change
policy formulation. Yet these Summaries are prepared by a relatively small core
writing team with the final drafts approved line-by-line by government
representatives. The great majority of IPCC contributors and reviewers, and the
tens of thousands of other scientists who are qualified to comment on these matters,
are not involved in the preparation of these documents. The summaries therefore
cannot properly be represented as a consensus view among experts.
Contrary to the impression left by the IPCC Summary reports:
z Recent observations of phenomena such as glacial retreats, sea-level rise and
the migration of temperature-sensitive species are not evidence for abnormal
climate change, for none of these changes has been shown to lie outside the
bounds of known natural variability.
z The average rate of warming of 0.1 to 0. 2 degrees Celsius per decade
recorded by satellites during the late 20th century falls within known natural
rates of warming and cooling over the last 10,000 years.
z Leading scientists, including some senior IPCC representatives, acknowledge
that today's computer models cannot predict climate. Consistent with this, and
despite computer projections of temperature rises, there has been no net global
warming since 1998. That the current temperature plateau follows a late 20th
-century period of warming is consistent with the continuation today of natural
multi-decadal or millennial climate cycling.
In stark contrast to the often repeated assertion that the science of climate
change is "settled," significant new peer-reviewed research has cast even more
doubt on the hypothesis of dangerous human-caused global warming. But
because IPCC working groups were generally instructed (see
http://ipcc-wg1.ucar.edu/wg1/docs/wg1_timetable_2006-08-14.pdf) to consider
work published only through May, 2005, these important findings are not included
in their reports; i.e., the IPCC assessment reports are already materially outdated.
The UN climate conference in Bali has been planned to take the world along a path
of severe CO2 restrictions, ignoring the lessons apparent from the failure of the
Kyoto Protocol, the chaotic nature of the European CO2 trading market, and the
ineffectiveness of other costly initiatives to curb greenhouse gas emissions. Balanced
cost/benefit analyses provide no support for the introduction of global measures to
cap and reduce energy consumption for the purpose of restricting CO2 emissions.
Furthermore, it is irrational to apply the "precautionary principle" because many
scientists recognize that both climatic coolings and warmings are realistic possibilities
over the medium-term future.
The current UN focus on "fighting climate change," as illustrated in the Nov. 27 UN
Development Programme's Human Development Report, is distracting governments
from adapting to the threat of inevitable natural climate changes, whatever forms they
may take. National and international planning for such changes is needed, with a focus
on helping our most vulnerable citizens adapt to conditions that lie ahead. Attempts to
prevent global climate change from occurring are ultimately futile, and constitute a tragic
misallocation of resources that would be better spent on humanity's real and pressing
problems.
Yours faithfully,
Don Aitkin, PhD, Professor, social scientist, retired vice-chancellor and president,
University of Canberra, Australia
William J.R. Alexander, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Civil and Biosystems
Engineering, University of Pretoria, South Africa; Member, UN Scientific and
Technical Committee on Natural Disasters, 1994-2000
Bjarne Andresen, PhD, physicist, Professor, The Niels Bohr Institute, University
of Copenhagen, Denmark
Geoff L. Austin, PhD, FNZIP, FRSNZ, Professor, Dept. of Physics, University
of Auckland, New Zealand
Timothy F. Ball, PhD, environmental consultant, former climatology professor,
University of Winnipeg
Ernst-Georg Beck, Dipl. Biol., Biologist, Merian-Schule Freiburg, Germany
Sonja A. Boehmer-Christiansen, PhD, Reader, Dept. of Geography, Hull University,
U.K.; Editor, Energy & Environment journal
Chris C. Borel, PhD, remote sensing scientist, U.S.
Reid A. Bryson, PhD, DSc, DEngr, UNE P. Global 500 Laureate; Senior Scientist,
Center for Climatic Research; Emeritus Professor of Meteorology, of Geography,
and of Environmental Studies, University of Wisconsin
Dan Carruthers, M.Sc., wildlife biology consultant specializing in animal ecology in
Arctic and Subarctic regions, Alberta
R.M. Carter, PhD, Professor, Marine Geophysical Laboratory, James Cook
University, Townsville, Australia
Ian D. Clark, PhD, Professor, isotope hydrogeology and paleoclimatology, Dept.
of Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa
Richard S. Courtney, PhD, climate and atmospheric science consultant, IPCC
expert reviewer, U.K
.
Willem de Lange, PhD, Dept. of Earth and Ocean Sciences, School of Science
and Engineering, Waikato University, New Zealand
David Deming, PhD (Geophysics), Associate Professor, College of Arts and
Sciences, University of Oklahoma
Freeman J. Dyson, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Institute for Advanced
Studies, Princeton, N.J.
Don J. Easterbrook, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Geology, Western Washington
University
Lance Endersbee, Emeritus Professor, former dean of Engineering and Pro-Vice
Chancellor of Monasy University, Australia
Hans Erren, Doctorandus, geophysicist and climate specialist, Sittard,
The Netherlands
Robert H. Essenhigh, PhD, E.G. Bailey Professor of Energy Conversion, Dept.
of Mechanical Engineering, The Ohio State University
Christopher Essex, PhD, Professor of Applied Mathematics and Associate Director
of the Program in Theoretical Physics, University of Western Ontario
David Evans, PhD, mathematician, carbon accountant, computer and electrical
engineer and head of ‘Science Speak,' Australia
William Evans, PhD, editor, American Midland Naturalist; Dept. of Biological
Sciences, University of Notre Dame
Stewart Franks, PhD, Professor, Hydroclimatologist, University of Newcastle,
Australia
R. W. Gauldie, PhD, Research Professor, Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and
Planetology, School of Ocean Earth Sciences and Technology, University of
Hawai'i at Manoa
Lee C. Gerhard, PhD, Senior Scientist Emeritus, University of Kansas; former
director and state geologist, Kansas Geological Survey
Gerhard Gerlich, Professor for Mathematical and Theoretical Physics, Institut
für Mathematische Physik der TU Braunschweig, Germany
Albrecht Glatzle, PhD, sc.agr., Agro-Biologist and Gerente ejecutivo, INTTAS,
Paraguay
Fred Goldberg, PhD, Adjunct Professor, Royal Institute of Technology, Mechanical
Engineering, Stockholm, Sweden
Vincent Gray, PhD, expert reviewer for the IPCC and author of The Greenhouse
Delusion: A Critique of ‘Climate Change 2001, Wellington, New Zealand
William M. Gray, Professor Emeritus, Dept. of Atmospheric Science, Colorado
State University and Head of the Tropical Meteorology Project
Howard Hayden, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of Connecticut
Louis Hissink MSc, M.A.I.G., editor, AIG News, and consulting geologist, Perth,
Western Australia
Craig D. Idso, PhD, Chairman, Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and
Global Change, Arizona
Sherwood B. Idso, PhD, President, Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and
Global Change, AZ, USA
Andrei Illarionov, PhD, Senior Fellow, Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity;
founder and director of the Institute of Economic Analysis
Zbigniew Jaworowski, PhD, physicist, Chairman - Scientific Council of Central
Laboratory for Radiological Protection, Warsaw, Poland
Jon Jenkins, PhD, MD, computer modelling - virology, NSW, Australia
Wibjorn Karlen, PhD, Emeritus Professor, Dept. of Physical Geography and
Quaternary Geology, Stockholm University, Sweden
Olavi Kärner, Ph.D., Research Associate, Dept. of Atmospheric Physics, Institute
of Astrophysics and Atmospheric Physics, Toravere, Estonia
Joel M. Kauffman, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Chemistry, University of the
Sciences in Philadelphia
David Kear, PhD, FRSNZ, CMG, geologist, former Director-General of NZ
Dept. of Scientific & Industrial Research, New Zealand
Madhav Khandekar, PhD, former research scientist, Environment Canada; editor,
Climate Research (2003-05); editorial board member, Natural Hazards; IPCC
expert reviewer 2007
William Kininmonth M.Sc., M.Admin., former head of Australia's National Climate
Centre and a consultant to the World Meteorological organization's Commission for
Climatology
Jan J.H. Kop, MSc Ceng FICE (Civil Engineer Fellow of the Institution of Civil Engineers),
Emeritus Prof. of Public Health Engineering, Technical University Delft, The Netherlands
Prof. R.W.J. Kouffeld, Emeritus Professor, Energy Conversion, Delft University of
Technology, The Netherlands
Salomon Kroonenberg, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Geotechnology, Delft University
of Technology, The Netherlands
Hans H.J. Labohm, PhD, economist, former advisor to the executive board,
Clingendael Institute (The Netherlands Institute of International Relations),
The Netherlands
The Rt. Hon. Lord Lawson of Blaby, economist; Chairman of the Central
Europe Trust; former Chancellor of the Exchequer, U.K.
Douglas Leahey, PhD, meteorologist and air-quality consultant, Calgary
David R. Legates, PhD, Director, Center for Climatic Research, University of Delaware
Marcel Leroux, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Climatology, University of Lyon, France;
former director of Laboratory of Climatology, Risks and Environment, CNRS
Bryan Leyland, International Climate Science Coalition, consultant and power engineer,
Auckland, New Zealand
William Lindqvist, PhD, independent consulting geologist, Calif.
Richard S. Lindzen, PhD, Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Dept. of Earth,
Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
A.J. Tom van Loon, PhD, Professor of Geology (Quaternary Geology), Adam
Mickiewicz University, Poznan, Poland; former President of the European Association
of Science Editors
Anthony R. Lupo, PhD, Associate Professor of Atmospheric Science, Dept. of Soil,
Environmental, and Atmospheric Science, University of Missouri-Columbia
Richard Mackey, PhD, Statistician, Australia
Horst Malberg, PhD, Professor for Meteorology and Climatology, Institut für Meteorologie,
Berlin, Germany
John Maunder, PhD, Climatologist, former President of the Commission for Climatology of the
World Meteorological Organization (89-97), New Zealand
Alister McFarquhar, PhD, international economy, Downing College, Cambridge, U.K.
Ross McKitrick, PhD, Associate Professor, Dept. of Economics, University of Guelph
John McLean, PhD, climate data analyst, computer scientist, Australia
Owen McShane, PhD, economist, head of the International Climate Science Coalition;
Director, Centre for Resource Management Studies, New Zealand
Fred Michel, PhD, Director, Institute of Environmental Sciences and Associate Professor
of Earth Sciences, Carleton University
Frank Milne, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Economics, Queen's University
Asmunn Moene, PhD, former head of the Forecasting Centre, Meteorological Institute,
Norway
Alan Moran, PhD, Energy Economist, Director of the IPA's Deregulation Unit, Australia
Nils-Axel Morner, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics,
Stockholm University, Sweden
Lubos Motl, PhD, Physicist, former Harvard string theorist, Charles University,
Prague, Czech Republic
John Nicol, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Physics, James Cook University, Australia
David Nowell, M.Sc., Fellow of the Royal Meteorological Society, former chairman
of the NATO Meteorological Group, Ottawa
James J. O'Brien, PhD, Professor Emeritus, Meteorology and Oceanography,
Florida State University
Cliff Ollier, PhD, Professor Emeritus (Geology), Research Fellow, University of
Western Australia
Garth W. Paltridge, PhD, atmospheric physicist, Emeritus Professor and former
Director of the Institute of Antarctic and Southern Ocean Studies, University of
Tasmania, Australia
R. Timothy Patterson, PhD, Professor, Dept. of Earth Sciences
(paleoclimatology), Carleton University
Al Pekarek, PhD, Associate Professor of Geology, Earth and Atmospheric
Sciences Dept., St. Cloud State University, Minnesota
Ian Plimer, PhD, Professor of Geology, School of Earth and Environmental
Sciences, University of Adelaide and Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences,
University of Melbourne, Australia
Brian Pratt, PhD, Professor of Geology, Sedimentology,
University of Saskatchewan
Harry N.A. Priem, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Planetary Geology and Isotope
Geophysics, Utrecht University; former director of the Netherlands Institute for
Isotope Geosciences
Alex Robson, PhD, Economics, Australian National University Colonel F.P.M.
Rombouts, Branch Chief - Safety, Quality and Environment, Royal Netherland
Air Force
R.G. Roper, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Atmospheric Sciences, School of Earth
and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of Technology
Arthur Rorsch, PhD, Emeritus Professor, Molecular Genetics, Leiden University,
The Netherlands
Rob Scagel, M.Sc., forest microclimate specialist, principal consultant, Pacific
Phytometric Consultants, B.C.
Tom V. Segalstad, PhD, (Geology/Geochemistry), Head of the Geological
Museum and Associate Professor of Resource and Environmental Geology,
University of Oslo, Norway
Gary D. Sharp, PhD, Center for Climate/Ocean Resources Study, Salinas, CA
S. Fred Singer, PhD, Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences, University
of Virginia and former director Weather Satellite Service
L. Graham Smith, PhD, Associate Professor, Dept. of Geography, University
of Western Ontario
Roy W. Spencer, PhD, climatologist, Principal Research Scientist, Earth System
Science Center, The University of Alabama, Huntsville
Peter Stilbs, TeknD, Professor of Physical Chemistry, Research Leader, School
of Chemical Science and Engineering, KTH (Royal Institute of Technology),
Stockholm, Sweden
Hendrik Tennekes, PhD, former director of research, Royal Netherlands
Meteorological Institute
Dick Thoenes, PhD, Emeritus Professor of Chemical Engineering, Eindhoven
University of Technology, The Netherlands
Brian G Valentine, PhD, PE (Chem.), Technology Manager - Industrial Energy
Efficiency, Adjunct Associate Professor of Engineering Science, University of
Maryland at College Park; Dept of Energy, Washington, DC
Gerrit J. van der Lingen, PhD, geologist and paleoclimatologist, climate change
consultant, Geoscience Research and Investigations, New Zealand
Len Walker, PhD, Power Engineering, Australia
Edward J. Wegman, PhD, Department of Computational and Data Sciences,
George Mason University, Virginia
Stephan Wilksch, PhD, Professor for Innovation and Technology Management,
Production Management and Logistics, University of Technolgy and Economics
Berlin, Germany
Boris Winterhalter, PhD, senior marine researcher (retired), Geological Survey
of Finland, former professor in marine geology, University of Helsinki, Finland
David E. Wojick, PhD, P.Eng., energy consultant, Virginia
Raphael Wust, PhD, Lecturer, Marine Geology/Sedimentology,
James Cook University, Australia
A. Zichichi, PhD, President of the World Federation of Scientists, Geneva,
Switzerland; Emeritus Professor of Advanced Physics,
University of Bologna, Italy
Copy to: Heads of state of countries of the signatory persons.
______________________________
You're right. It is the carbon/warming correlation as factual evidence that I doubt.
The planet is warming along with other planetary bodies. I am not convinced this isn't natural nor that the finding isn't the result of a too focused and narrowed time line (small sample). It is still very hard for me to even entertain the idea that we are responsible for the Martian polar caps melting or that Jesus drove a polluting SUV (which is presumably why the world was warmer in his day). But I don't want to argue any of that since the arguments for human cause of GW are pretty irrational and therefore pointless to argue against. People, even some trained scientists, will believe what they want it seems.
I will thus hold that, while there is indeed carbon in the atmosphere (a paltry amount as Ron pointed out) and the planet(s) are warming, that there is no proof the two are cause and effect. I hold too that the Venus Earth comparison is absurd because the differences in CO2 is hugely different and no model (or experiment) has proved that such a comparison is warranted.
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There might be an earth scientist or two in the list above. Are their
opinions also invalid? They're not in the Al Gore school of thought.
There's got to be a way to invalidate their opinions also. Can we
just write them off due to the difference of opinion? It would be
consistent.
Ron, you seem genuinely agnostic about the current state of things. The internet is a wide pool to cast your fly into, and I think you could search it for years and find contrary opinions all over the place, dressed up with Ph.D's and fancy titles. It's called an excess of objectivity.
So far, you've posted mostly the contrary voices, with some figures that look convincing, but lack context.
If you want to see some good historical context, where the basis for the anthropogenic argument comes from, I'd recommend the website run by Spencer Weart. He's a historian and a scientist, and he's built a large library documenting some of the pioneers, and some of the important advances along the way.
Have a look. See what you think.
The Discovery of Global Warming - A History
There's many links at the bottom of the page, I'd recommend the greenhouse effect as a good start.
The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect
So far, you've posted mostly the contrary voices, with some figures that look convincing, but lack context.
If you want to see some good historical context, where the basis for the anthropogenic argument comes from, I'd recommend the website run by Spencer Weart. He's a historian and a scientist, and he's built a large library documenting some of the pioneers, and some of the important advances along the way.
Have a look. See what you think.
The Discovery of Global Warming - A History
There's many links at the bottom of the page, I'd recommend the greenhouse effect as a good start.
The Carbon Dioxide Greenhouse Effect
I'm still forming an opinion on this subject, and I try to keep an open mind.
I stumble on that when my BS detector goes off like on posts #65 & #74.
Until I've waded through enough of the conflicting info on this subject,
agnostic is the place where I'm comfortable on AWG.
I stumble on that when my BS detector goes off like on posts #65 & #74.
Until I've waded through enough of the conflicting info on this subject,
agnostic is the place where I'm comfortable on AWG.
I haven't had a chance to read through those links yet, and I work
in the morning so I'm not even going to look at them tonight. Those
folks that signed the "Open Letter to the Secretary-General of the
United Nations," I'm assuming, would be familiar with the contents
of these links also though. They seem to have come up with different
opinion than most of the folks on this thread. How did the people that
signed that letter loose their way?
in the morning so I'm not even going to look at them tonight. Those
folks that signed the "Open Letter to the Secretary-General of the
United Nations," I'm assuming, would be familiar with the contents
of these links also though. They seem to have come up with different
opinion than most of the folks on this thread. How did the people that
signed that letter loose their way?
That's fine. It's not like I'm checking homework or anything, just thought you might like some more info.
As to the question about those scientists, that's hard to say because their letter contains no new science, well no science at all. It's denying science, but not refuting anything. I could venture guesses, but that's not really constructive.
You're an educated Man, So it would be an educated guess. :lol:
What's your guess? I'll keep an open mind and not let your
guess bias my as yet unformed opinion, but you've gotten my
curiosity here. Sounds like the Links you posted are pretty
substantial, and it might take me a while to chew through them. 8O
What's your guess? I'll keep an open mind and not let your
guess bias my as yet unformed opinion, but you've gotten my
curiosity here. Sounds like the Links you posted are pretty
substantial, and it might take me a while to chew through them. 8O
Honestly? I think the majority of people who don't go for the theory do so because they don't like the fixes they hear. Taxes, regulations, trading schemes. If you challenge somebodies view of how the world should be, and they see that their world view is marginalized, they're going to respond with denial.