Kiss That Freedom G'bye

[Pangloss]

I'm really not surprised you took only minutes to come up with that superficial and profoundly incorrect misreading of what I wrote.

Pour a coffee, read it again, think about how it might be right and what it would mean to your argument, and then try to refute it. If refuting is required.

This is just a suggestion. I'd hate to grow tired of one who writes so well.

Pangloss

 

[Pangloss]

And to only state the crushingly obvious - the scientific method has many variants, and all are subject to modification and falsification.

My goodness, you really didn't pay attention in school did you? Or do they just not teach this stuff any more?

Pangloss

 

[Tonington]

What a load of crap. Not only are they censoring information, they are firing and sacking civil servants all over the place.

Do you know what else happened this week? The closing of the Office of the National Science Advisor.

This is outright crap. Elected officials should keep their narrow minds out, and stop interfering.

What's next, appoint some blue ribbon conservative to Keen's position at CNSC?

Anyone know why the Chernobyl accident happened? It's because someone who didn't know what they were doing was placed in a position where they had control. "Increase the reaction rate!" Even though it's a cascading reaction. Very little response on the dials. "Remove the control rods!" Objections noted. Power starts to build, oh ****, it's going out of control. "Insert the control rods!" Reaction continues to spiral out of control.

Politicians should stick to what they know best, whatever that is these days...oh yah, interfering. Leave those who make it their lives work to know, to make the recommendations and conclusions of their own work.

 

[Pangloss]

Good post, Ton.

Pangloss

 

[Scott Free]

I'm really not surprised you took only minutes to come up with that superficial and profoundly incorrect misreading of what I wrote.

Pour a coffee, read it again, think about how it might be right and what it would mean to your argument, and then try to refute it. If refuting is required.

This is just a suggestion. I'd hate to grow tired of one who writes so well.

Pangloss

I don't think there is really any reason to be hostile. I understand the hostility but I would rather avoid it. Hostility is almost always born out of conflicting ideals within a single individual.

I have done a lot of thinking on this subject and my quick response reflects only that. I read and understood your argument. I just don't think it is right. The reason is simple: that isn't how the human mind and language works. I already posted why I think this in another thread.

 

[Scott Free]

And to only state the crushingly obvious - the scientific method has many variants, and all are subject to modification and falsification.

My goodness, you really didn't pay attention in school did you? Or do they just not teach this stuff any more?

Pangloss

Again, my belief system is different than yours. I'm glad you have something to believe in.

Yes, I did pay attention in school, perhaps more so than you think.

 

[Pangloss]

Two things jump out at me as I read your replies: arrogance, and a complete avoidance of the subject being discussed.

So sad. I thought you were worth writing with.

Pangloss

 

[Kreskin]

If you were a shareholder of Biovail and you went to their production facility requiring answers from their scientists they will tell you to pound salt or come to the annual general shareholders meeting where you'll be perfectly welcome to ask questions to the executive board or whomever they authorize to answer your questions.

The scientists are paid to be scientists, not media relations officers.

 

[s243a]

Why do we even have environment Canada? Why not give the money to Universities with not strings attached? That is the only true way to get scientific freedom.

 

[Pangloss]

If you were a shareholder of Biovail and you went to their production facility requiring answers from their scientists they will tell you to pound salt or come to the annual general shareholders meeting where you'll be perfectly welcome to ask questions to the executive board or whomever they authorize to answer your questions.

The scientists are paid to be scientists, not media relations officers.

A shareholder isn't the media, they're an owner.

Pangloss

 

[Tonington]

The scientists are paid to be scientists, not media relations officers.

So where does the civilian with no training to understand a study go? They go to media. Media go to experts and government. And our government just closed the ONSA.

A private company is free to keep their research from competitors. Government scientists are meant to report their findings, after all it's our damn money. That's the way the system is set up. Until it changes to something like s243a suggested.

If the findings are uncomfortable, perhaps we should feel uncomfortable, instead of some BS happy happy joy joy things are fine edit by politicians.

 

[Kreskin]

There is nothing in their saying scientists will never be able to talk again, but the employers who sign their paycheques want a better handle on what is being said and to whom. Of course they'll need the scientists involved. But in the business of trashing governments all one needs is to do is inadvertantly echange the word "I" with "we" and it's front line conspiracy news. They're running it like a business does, which is to watch what gets said so it doesn't blow up with media misinformation.

 

[darkbeaver]

What a load of crap. Not only are they censoring information, they are firing and sacking civil servants all over the place.

Do you know what else happened this week? The closing of the Office of the National Science Advisor.

This is outright crap. Elected officials should keep their narrow minds out, and stop interfering.

What's next, appoint some blue ribbon conservative to Keen's position at CNSC?

Anyone know why the Chernobyl accident happened? It's because someone who didn't know what they were doing was placed in a position where they had control. "Increase the reaction rate!" Even though it's a cascading reaction. Very little response on the dials. "Remove the control rods!" Objections noted. Power starts to build, oh ****, it's going out of control. "Insert the control rods!" Reaction continues to spiral out of control.

Politicians should stick to what they know best, whatever that is these days...oh yah, interfering. Leave those who make it their lives work to know, to make the recommendations and conclusions of their own work.

You have assigned blame at the obvious and common strata and not drawn your pencil to the bigger infinately more powerful dot. At this point in the conspiracy those elected officials are on the third rung of a ten rung ladder of societal power. They are systematically destroying the Canadian nation, or whats left of it. We will soon become Fortress North America a trans national corporation and we will go to war for evermore. haha and ha Big money ain't got no soul. The corporations own most universitys through funding , so strings are everywhere.

 

[Kreskin]

A shareholder isn't the media, they're an owner.

Pangloss

But you said earlier that the shareholder has the right to full unbiased disclosure. Do you think a an annual report is just that, the voice of the production line? Or the annual shareholders meeting discussion with board members? You won't be roaming the production line quizzing anyone you want, and the employer has the right to ask the employee to do a job which doesn't include media relations.

 

[darkbeaver]

There is nothing in their saying scientists will never be able to talk again, but the employers who sign their paycheques want a better handle on what is being said and to whom. Of course they'll need the scientists involved. But in the business of trashing governments all one needs is to do is inadvertantly echange the word "I" with "we" and it's front line conspiracy news. They're running it like a business does, which is to watch what gets said so it doesn't blow up with media misinformation.

They're running it like a business, whoop-de-do, is that supposed to instill confidence or elicit hilarious laughter? We the public like people like sign the paycheques. The American economy was run like a business, so I guess disaster and insolvency is what you consider smart business.

 

[Kreskin]

They're running it like a business, whoop-de-do, is that supposed to instill confidence or elicit hilarious laughter? We the public like people like sign the paycheques. The American economy was run like a business, so I guess disaster and insolvency is what you consider smart business.

You don't sign the paycheques your elected officials do. Talk to them, but do note that they are the ones approving the policy.

 

[darkbeaver]

You don't sign the paycheques your elected officials do. Talk to them, but do note that they are the ones approving the policy.

My elected officials, just like any payroll office staff sign the cheques for the people of Canada to pay our public servents. Our government is supposed to be taking care of all Canadians, not just the crap at the top. When the revolution comes it's going to be fun pulling the wings off them, feeding them cheezeburgers till they explode, making them watch ****ty TV for hours and hours while they have to go to the bathroom, sticking kickme signs on them while they're digging ditches to nowhere, making them wear dull baggy coveralls and big floppy shoes, cold greasy french fries at every meal that should eliminate the class fast enough I bet.

 

[Scott Free]

My elected officials, just like any payroll office staff sign the cheques for the people of Canada to pay our public servents. Our government is supposed to be taking care of all Canadians, not just the crap at the top. When the revolution comes it's going to be fun pulling the wings off them, feeding them cheezeburgers till they explode, making them watch ****ty TV for hours and hours while they have to go to the bathroom, sticking kickme signs on them while they're digging ditches to nowhere, making them wear dull baggy coveralls and big floppy shoes, cold greasy french fries at every meal that should eliminate the class fast enough I bet.

Definitely.

 

[Tonington]

There is nothing in their saying scientists will never be able to talk again, but the employers who sign their paycheques want a better handle on what is being said and to whom. Of course they'll need the scientists involved. But in the business of trashing governments all one needs is to do is inadvertantly echange the word "I" with "we" and it's front line conspiracy news. They're running it like a business does, which is to watch what gets said so it doesn't blow up with media misinformation.

The problem isn't that they can't speak. The problem is that politicians will be dictating what they can and cannot say.What does a politician know about environmental science? I don't think we have any politicians with formal training to decide what can and can't be said regarding these issues. Government isn't a business. A business seeks profit. Government is not in the business of employing scientists to research issues that turn a profit. Who's to say that government approved language isn't misinformation, or perhaps more aptly a lack of information?

 

[Kreskin]

Most advanced science journals and books are written by experts in writing, not scientists. They are hired by the scientists.