Justice System in British Columbia needs overhaul- NOW.

[petros]

Yukon Jack is right. A lifetime of guilt is a lifetime of guilt as long as that person bears that guilt it will always haunt them. Many a person who has faced their guilt have been released and have become strong outstanding community leaders.

Unfortunately there are many who never accept their guilt but they too are haunted and will spend the rest of their lives running and trying to hide from it.

A brain can heal and a mind can be guided if the will and opportunity are part of the picture.

 

[JLM]

Yukon Jack is right. A lifetime of guilt is a lifetime of guilt as long as that person bears that guilt it will always haunt them. Many a person who has faced their guilt have been released and have become strong outstanding community leaders.

Unfortunately there are many who never accept their guilt but they too are haunted and will spend the rest of their lives running and trying to hide from it.

A brain can heal and a mind can be guided if the will and opportunity are part of the picture.

Do you think "guilt" is part of these guys' make up? Sure lots of decent people have emerged from people convicted of murder (like a barroom brawl gone wrong) but realistically what do you think the chances are of these guys ever being "decent"? What happens if we are wrong? Another girl meets a brutal death?

 

[petros]

They are going to have plenty of time to grow up and think in a very hard place eating Mr Noodles & KD in a 6x10 box with a greasy old guy who doesn't shower and farts non-stop and the rest of their time working so they can buy KD & Mr Noodles, soap, toothpaste etc etc.

They will be my age when they get out. I still live with the sins of my youth and I never did anything remotely close to what they did. I'm sure everybody reading this bears some form of guilt. If they don't then they may want to seek help with that.

 

[JLM]

They are going to have plenty of time to grow up and think in a very hard place eating Mr Noodles & KD in a 6x10 box with a greasy old guy who doesn't shower and farts non-stop and the rest of their time working so they can buy KD & Mr Noodles, soap, toothpaste etc etc.

They will be my age when they get out. I still live with the sins of my youth and I never did anything remotely close to what they did. I'm sure everybody reading this bears some form of guilt. If they don't then they may want to seek help with that.

I'm not much for living with guilt- unless of course you've done something to seriously or permanently harm someone, I'm more for getting on with life, learning from the mistakes (adjusting your course as you make them), if you must feel guilty about something (maybe you stole $200) repay it anonymously or donate an equal amount to a charity, but anything beats wasting time on morbid reflections. :smile:

They are going to have plenty of time to grow up and think in a very hard place eating Mr Noodles & KD in a 6x10 box with a greasy old guy who doesn't shower and farts non-stop and the rest of their time working so they can buy KD & Mr Noodles, soap, toothpaste etc etc.

They will be my age when they get out. I still live with the sins of my youth and I never did anything remotely close to what they did. I'm sure everybody reading this bears some form of guilt. If they don't then they may want to seek help with that.

I imagine there are also some devious guards, cooks etc. in the system so if I was those boys I would never feel sure of WHAT I might be getting on plate. :lol:

 

[Mowich]

Proctor's teenage killers get life sentences - British Columbia - CBC News

Things are starting to look up. We still have a way to go yet- both bastards should be on the end of a rope! :smile:

I liked your iceberg idea bettter, JLM. I think it was your idea - correct me if I am wrong. :smile:

 

[JLM]

I liked your iceberg idea bettter, JLM. I think it was your idea - correct me if I am wrong. :smile:

I did mention that one, don't suppose I was the first person to think of it. I do have a lot of nefarious ideas when it comes to these type of miscreants. (Maybe this whole thing highlights a bigger problem...............bullying) Perhaps these guys just started out as "run of the mill" bullies.

 

[jgarden]

If you look at capital punishment in America as an example, the legal and institutional costs for each individual on "Death Row" is in the millions!

 

[JLM]

If you look at capital punishment in America as an example, the legal and institutional costs for each individual on "Death Row" is in the millions!

I think that has more to do with their system than the actual cost of pulling the switch, they may like their criminals to squirm for a few years.

 

[DurkaDurka]

I think that has more to do with their system than the actual cost of pulling the switch, they may like their criminals to squirm for a few years.

I believe it's called "due process" :smile:

 

[JLM]

You are justified in your disgust for the people that did this but basically implying that they don't deserve legal representation is rather F*cked up.

That is NOT what I implied. As I said in previous posts these guys deserve representation to see they get a FAIR trial- but not beating a rap through loop holes.

 

[talloola]

Upon reading more details about the acts of these monsters, I've amended my thinking a little. Sudden death is too good for them. Throw them in with the general prison population hopefully with someone who's in there for already killing one of their kind.

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, there will be those in prison who will make their lives miserable,
and possibly worse.

I remember the guy who killed the little girl here in courtenay, spent some time in prison, then
turned up dead, hmmm, sometimes justice is served.

 

[damngrumpy]

First of all, no matter how evil, everyone deserves a full and fair trial. The reason is because,
if we start making exceptions, someday we will be hanging people who did nothing at all.
Justice isn't about how much it costs, its about how fair it is. In addition we have to define
whether we want justice, or revenge. If we are intent on revenge we will fit right in with the
Sharia Crowd from the Middle East.
We do not need to put people on trial because we are angry and intent on punishment, without
facts and evidence. People admit to committing crimes because they are threatened by the
police with being put in general population, and for a host of other reasons. I do believe in this
case however, that these guys are guilty as hell and should remain in prison. I have a real
tough time with the death penalty because even though we have DNA its not perfect and the
people who work with it are not perfect, and there are cases of error.
Every case is different true, but remember every case is linked by precedent and someday
that precedent, fair or not might be used against anyone of us. We must be very careful in
how we apply the law. There are many who would advocate for such justice measures, until
one of their close family is confronted with the possibility of being put to death.

 

[JLM]

First of all, no matter how evil, everyone deserves a full and fair trial. The reason is because,
if we start making exceptions, someday we will be hanging people who did nothing at all.
Justice isn't about how much it costs, its about how fair it is. In addition we have to define
whether we want justice, or revenge. If we are intent on revenge we will fit right in with the
Sharia Crowd from the Middle East.
We do not need to put people on trial because we are angry and intent on punishment, without
facts and evidence. People admit to committing crimes because they are threatened by the
police with being put in general population, and for a host of other reasons. I do believe in this
case however, that these guys are guilty as hell and should remain in prison. I have a real
tough time with the death penalty because even though we have DNA its not perfect and the
people who work with it are not perfect, and there are cases of error.
Every case is different true, but remember every case is linked by precedent and someday
that precedent, fair or not might be used against anyone of us. We must be very careful in
how we apply the law. There are many who would advocate for such justice measures, until
one of their close family is confronted with the possibility of being put to death.

I mostly agree except your statement downplaying costs. Costs are a fact of life and if they get out of control all our money will be spent defending criminals and alleged criminals. When I mentioned loopholes I'm referring to such nonsonse as a defense lawyer questioning a witnesses memory of an incident because he couldn't remember what colour socks he put on that morning. Altogether too many shenanigans like that going on. Look at the Air India case.............a dismal failure and $millions if not $billions p*ssed against the wall on it.

 

[TenPenny]

That's nice Y.J. but the girl has already suffered "capital punishment". One thing I can not understand is these miscreants were tried as adult and convicted of premeditated murder, so why the ten year minimum sentence? I like the Old 99 they have in the U.S. - no repeat offenses after serving that one. :smile:

So, you think that killing someone, for killing someone, shows that killing is wrong?

 

[JLM]

So, you think that killing someone, for killing someone, shows that killing is wrong?

You're definitely right.....................where innocent people are concerned!

 

[SLM]

As much as I can understand the sentiment behind the call for capital punishment, I don't think a society as a whole should be engaging in capital punishment. Capital punishment is, bottom line, about revenge. It's not about deterrence, it's not about cost savings, it's about an eye for an eye. The justice system needs to be above that, in my humble opinion. If taking a life is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of who is doing it.

 

[JLM]

As much as I can understand the sentiment behind the call for capital punishment, I don't think a society as a whole should be engaging in capital punishment. Capital punishment is, bottom line, about revenge. It's not about deterrence, it's not about cost savings, it's about an eye for an eye. The justice system needs to be above that, in my humble opinion. If taking a life is wrong, then it is wrong regardless of who is doing it.

I think it's quite an effective deterrence...........................unless you know of some ghosts who commit murder! :smile:

 

[shadowshiv]

And no matter what we do, it will not bring her back.

Her murderers deserve punishment, no doubt. If they were tried and sentenced as adults, the eligibility for parole (yes, parole, not certain release) should have been 25 years.

A whole lot can happen in 25 years. A lot of regret. A lot of effort to make things better. A lot of settling down and growing up. A lot of real, heartfelt sorrow. A lot of indication that the redemption is real.

Just as the young girl, whose life was snuffed out in a cruel fashion did not deserve to die, neither do the young men who killed her deserve to die, if and ONLY IF their redemption is genuine. And if it is not, they do not deserve release or parole.

Think about it: Would you rather spend the next 25 years (or more) alone, without human contact, without a friend, ALONE with your guilt, than have a quick and painless - and USELESS - death? Which punishment would you prefer?

I know, there are those, like Clifford Olsen, for whom redemption does not seem to be an option. But those who show a sign of human decency, the door to redemption should be left open.

They are unworthy of redemption. How many times do you see the people on trial be emotionless until it is time for the jury or judge to decide on sentencing? All of a sudden the tears flow, and they say how sorry they are. They bleat useless platitudes to the families of the victim(s) as if it would make any difference to the amount of pain they were in.

Why should they be able to get a taste of freedom, especially after commiting such a brutal crime? They should be in prison for the rest of their lives, and then die of old age(or through other means if they piss off the wrong inmate). If they want redemption, they can try it out in their next life, as they voided that right by becoming vicious murderers.

Life in prison should be just that.

I am just thankful that they were at least tried as adults, and they don't get to hide behind the cloak of anonymity due to the joke known as the Youth Justice Act.