Justice in the courts? BS

L Gilbert

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An RCMP officer told me once, that if anyone ever decided to burgle my house (or whatever else that required entry), that I should wait till the perp is all the way into the house before giving they guy a third eye socket. Um, that would give me the idea that as long as the dood is on my property and the intent is clear, anything is reasonable force. Other than that, reasonable force is a debatable issue.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Even after reading the whole story I can't feel too sorry for this guy. He had just got out of jail when he was caught for shoplifting. A day or two after the shoplifting he got caught stealing a car. The country will always be paying this jerk's way.
 

Pangloss

Council Member
Mar 16, 2007
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I notice nobody listed the injuries to the security guards who also tumbled down the stairs.

Juan, if you read the judge's decision (it is linked in the thread), you would know the guards dragged the suspect down the stairs. Nobody fell, there was no struggle at that point - it was all about a little prejudicial punishment. Same with the punches that knocked a tooth out and broke another - the suspect was handcuffed at the time.

Why would you want to sympathize with bullies, anyway?

Pangloss
 

#juan

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Juan, if you read the judge's decision (it is linked in the thread), you would know the guards dragged the suspect down the stairs. Nobody fell, there was no struggle at that point - it was all about a little prejudicial punishment. Same with the punches that knocked a tooth out and broke another - the suspect was handcuffed at the time.

Why would you want to sympathize with bullies, anyway?

Pangloss

I'm not sympathising with anyone. The thief is/was a jerk and he ran into other jerks. Maybe the guards should be punished but I can't feel sorry for this habitual criminal who just got out of jail Hopefully, he is now back inside where he belongs. He was well paid for his broken tooth. Wonder why he didn't buy a car rather than steal one.
 

L Gilbert

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The message is clear.

If a shoplifter comes into your store and steals your merchandise, you should serve him a cup of coffee and give him a hug and send him on his way with the goods he stole. This is far cheaper than trying to protect your property.
lol. Apparently. Might as well give him/her a gift, too, just in case the coffee was old or not hot. Don't want to offend, you know.
 
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L Gilbert

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Juan, if you read the judge's decision (it is linked in the thread), you would know the guards dragged the suspect down the stairs. Nobody fell, there was no struggle at that point - it was all about a little prejudicial punishment. Same with the punches that knocked a tooth out and broke another - the suspect was handcuffed at the time.

Why would you want to sympathize with bullies, anyway?

Pangloss
Matter of perspective, it looks like to me. It isn't so much sympathising with the guards as not sympathising with the perp.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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Must admit I have zero sympathy with habitual criminals. They make our communities less safe, impair the ability of the state to safeguard our rights... and jack up the insurance rates. Ideally, being a citizen implies compliance with a social contract. If you're an habitual criminal you refuse to recognize boundaries for your behaviour. It's too bad it wasn't winter. I'd take the lad to a wrecker's yard, handcuff him to a steering wheel and let him dream of running the roads all the cold night long.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Hi L.G., tamarin

Shoplifters and other petty criminals add real cost to almost everything we buy. Stores and other businesses simply pass those costs along. The guy probably owes us another tooth or two...:lol:
 

sanctus

The Padre
Oct 27, 2006
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Juan, if you read the judge's decision (it is linked in the thread), you would know the guards dragged the suspect down the stairs. Nobody fell, there was no struggle at that point - it was all about a little prejudicial punishment. Same with the punches that knocked a tooth out and broke another - the suspect was handcuffed at the time.

Why would you want to sympathize with bullies, anyway?

Pangloss


I think in your zeal you are missing a clear point. This guy was stealing. Had he not been stealing, nobody would've beat him up. Was their behaviour just? No, I think they were a bit over the edge. But in saying that let's not forget that the guy was a thief.
As over the edge as their behaviour was, it does not justify his actions.
 

Libra Girl

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Feb 27, 2006
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An RCMP officer told me once, that if anyone ever decided to burgle my house (or whatever else that required entry), that I should wait till the perp is all the way into the house before giving they guy a third eye socket. Um, that would give me the idea that as long as the dood is on my property and the intent is clear, anything is reasonable force. Other than that, reasonable force is a debatable issue.
Third eye socket? The mind boggles... 8O
I have been burgled twice, not recently, a couple of years or more ago. In one of the burglaries the perps, who have not been apprehended, tore up many family photo's, lined up saucepans and urinated and defecated in them, what they couldn't take, such as a tv, they smashed the screen in, took the VCR, DVD player, jewellry, and other items, not only of value, but much of it irreplaceable. If they are ever caught, highly unlikely now, I'll send 'em over to you. lol.
 

Niflmir

A modern nomad
Dec 18, 2006
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Determining liability in the court is not the same thing determining sympathy. As I already explained, judges have the uneviable position of determining liability without discrimination to social background. The fact that the person was a criminal and was involved in a crime at the time of the event in question is irrelevent to the question of liability after it has been determined that excessive force has been used.

In regards to Kreskin's question, the relevent section of the criminal code is 25, and 2. 25 details the use of force in making an arrest and section 2 details bodily harm.

There was no sob story involved here, and frankly the judge wouldn't want to hear it. Motive is irrelevent in cases of civil liability, all that needs determining is what wrong has been done and who is responsible for it. This does not justify criminal activity, conflating the decision of the judge with a court sympathy for criminals is absurd. No one has sympathy for criminals, but many people see a point in safeguarding criminals against excessive force. I was once at the receiving end of excessive police force and had committed no crime to receive it. Justifying the action of a security guard (not an official law enforcement agent) in the use of excessive force leads to justifying excessive violence against innocent citizens. You cannot on the one hand say that the force is excessive and on the other hand say that the criminal deserved it. So either you stand by the judges decision, and the reasons are quite clear, or you believe that kicking a person in the face while they are being held down is a reasonable way to subdue someone.