Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

[earth_as_one]

I noticed you can't acknowledge or condemn a single Israeli war crime or crime against humanity. I can say Palestinian militant groups firing missiles at civilian targets is a war crime. Yet you completely ignore the long list of Israeli atrocities which stretch back to Israel's very founding and continue to this day.

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/specialsession/9/FactFindingMission.htm

The Palestinians have never had a sincere just and fair peace offer from Israel. They are the ones who have offered to give up claims to most of their land and many rights considered normal for any sovereign state.

Read about the tiny toxic waste dumps and minuscule patches of desert Israel generously offered to exchange for most of the arable land in the West Bank for yourself:
The Myth of the Generous Offer

 

[ironsides]

In its September 13, 2010 issue, Time magazine asks the wrong question. The question isn't why Israel doesn't care about peace. The question is why the Arab world refuses to make peace with Israel.
Israel's entire history is an unending willingness to trade land for the hope of peace that has been repeatedly dashed by Arab intransigence.
When the United Nations recognized Israel's independence, all of the West Bank and Jerusalem were outside Israel's borders. Despite the historic, legal, and moral claims of the Jewish people to Jerusalem and to Judea and Samaria, Israel was willing to forgo the land in exchange for independence and peace. But the Arab world could not countenance a Jewish state in its midst, and several Arab armies attacked Israel. When the fighting stopped in 1949, Israel controlled half of Jerusalem (the half without the holy places) and none of the West Bank. Jordan proceeded to raze dozens of synagogues in the half of Jerusalem it controlled, with no international protests.

In 1964, the Palestine Liberation Organization was formed--three years before Israel controlled any of the West Bank. It's not hard to imagine what the "Palestine" was that the "organization" wanted to "liberate." There were no settlements and no "occupation" in 1964.

In 1967, Israel launched preemptive strikes against Egypt and Syria after they committed acts of war against Israel (Syria attacked kibbutzim from the Golan Heights while Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, ordered UN peacekeepers to leave the Sinai, and massed troops on Israel's border). But Israel did not attack Jordan, and Israel controls Jerusalem and the West Bank today only because Jordan attacked Israel during the Six Day War.
In 2000, Israel unilaterally withdrew from all of Lebanon in exchange for nothing, and that's exactly what it got: nothing. Nothing except terrorism and rockets from its northern border.
In 2005, Israel unilaterally withdrew from all of Gaza in exchange for nothing, and that's exactly what it got: nothing. Nothing except terrorism and rockets from Gaza. There is no "occupation" of Gaza; the only Israeli in Gaza is Gilad Shalit, the soldier held captive in violation of international law.
Peace is still within our grasp. All it takes is for Arab Palestinian leadership to place a higher priority on achieving a state of their own than on destroying Israel. Or as Golda Meir said, "we will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-sheffey/israel-cares-about-peace_b_706446.html

 

[earth_as_one]

What a distorted narrative. Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Europe should have been grateful they found a relatively safe haven in Palestine. Instead they committed horrendous atrocities, acts of terrorism and cleansed the area of most non-Jews. The process continues today as Israel continues to evict people from their homes, raze them to the ground and then build Jewish only colonies over the ruins.

I support religious rights and freedoms up to the point where it infringes other people's rights. Zionism in its current form crosses that line and as a result millions of nationless people suffer oppression and injustice. The status quo is unsustainable over the long term. Sooner or later what goes around comes around...

 

[ironsides]

What a distorted narrative. Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Europe should have been grateful they found a relatively safe haven in Palestine. Instead they committed horrendous atrocities, acts of terrorism and cleansed the area of most non-Jews. The process continues today as Israel continues to evict people from their homes, raze them to the ground and then build Jewish only colonies over the ruins.

I support religious rights and freedoms up to the point where it infringes other people's rights. Zionism in its current form crosses that line and as a result millions of nationless people suffer oppression and injustice. The status quo is unsustainable over the long term. Sooner or later what goes around comes around...

You left out how the British tried driving the Jews out of Palestine in league with the Palestinians. They had no weapons when they first arrived, just wanted a safe place to live.

 

[MHz]

You left out how the British tried driving the Jews out of Palestine in league with the Palestinians. They had no weapons when they first arrived, just wanted a safe place to live.

Perhaps you are forgetting the Brits were the authors of the Balfour Declaration prior to 1920 when they had just gotten possession of the Holy Land and their mandate was to provide a homeland for the Jews. The same people that made refugees of 650,000 in the first six months after the vote on UN 181.
Would you like a reminder of how Britain voted ? Abstained because they had control of the land, how odd that they can take on Hitler but cannot control 500,000 'unarmed Jews' (your words).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8p8E2e19Jc&feature=related

http://www.megavideo.com/?v=EX1NULFJ

Being mistaken about past events does happen but you post is bull from the start.

From the time article of Sept 2/2010 has this quote. Obviously they will lie to themselves to turn a buck or two and, yet you believe everything their politicians say. lol I think I choose that this is deliberate on your part rather than it being from you lacking the power to actually think for yourself.

"What the people see on the TV there is not true here," she says. "I sold, this week, 12 apartments. You're not client, I tell you the truth."


​

 

[earth_as_one]

You left out how the British tried driving the Jews out of Palestine in league with the Palestinians. They had no weapons when they first arrived, just wanted a safe place to live.

More BS,

The Brits tried unsuccessfully to limit Jewish immigration to Palestine.
Yishuv - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jewish settlers were well armed and organized from the very beginning.
Hashomer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some Jewish militant groups cooperated with the British and others committed acts of terrorism against both the Brits and Arabs.

Haganah
Haganah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Irgun
Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of Irgun Attacks:
List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lehi aka The Stern gang.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

The Night of the Trains
Night of the Trains - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The assassination of Lord Moyne:
Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Bombing of the King David Hotel:
The Outrage

The assassination of Count Bernadotte - and the death of peace
Israel's forgotten hero: The assassination of Count Bernadotte - and the death of peace - Middle East, World - The Independent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_War#Yishuv_forces

...By September 1947 the Haganah had "10,489 rifles, 702 light machine-guns, 2,666 submachine guns, 186 medium machine-guns, 672 two-inch mortars and 92 three-inch (76 mm) mortars" and acquired many more during the first few months of hostilities. The Yishuv also had "a relatively advanced arms producing capacity", that between October 1947 and July 1948 "produced 3 million 9 mm bullets, 150,000 Mills grenades, 16,000 submachine guns (Sten Guns) and 210 three-inch (76 mm) mortars",[73] along with a few "Davidka" homemade mortars that were highly inaccurate but had a spectacularly loud explosion that demoralized the enemy. Initially, the Haganah had no heavy machine guns, artillery, armored vehicles, anti-tank or anti-aircraft weapons,[74] nor military aircraft or tanks.[75]....
1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ironsides]

More BS,

The Brits tried unsuccessfully to limit Jewish immigration to Palestine.
Yishuv - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jewish settlers were well armed and organized from the very beginning.
Hashomer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some Jewish militant groups cooperated with the British and others committed acts of terrorism against both the Brits and Arabs.

Haganah
Haganah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Irgun
Irgun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of Irgun Attacks:
List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lehi aka The Stern gang.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

The Night of the Trains
Night of the Trains - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The assassination of Lord Moyne:
Walter Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Bombing of the King David Hotel:
The Outrage

The assassination of Count Bernadotte - and the death of peace
Israel's forgotten hero: The assassination of Count Bernadotte - and the death of peace - Middle East, World - The Independent

1948 Arab?Israeli War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When the Jewish settlers got off the ships (before WW-II), just where did those arms come from? They stole begged and borrowed from anyone who could supply them, that is how they armed themselves. Why because the local native population (they all were not Arab) didn't want them there. As for the Haganah and Irgun, they were the only military defense force the Jewish communities had. Yes the Irgun were a little harsh, but got results. They did what had to be done to insure their survival and independence.

Irgun - 1937 -"The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".


Haganah - After the 1920 Arab riots and 1921 Jaffa riots, the Jewish leadership in Palestine believed that the British, to whom the League of Nations had given a mandate over Palestine in 1920, had no desire to confront local Arab gangs which frequently attacked Palestinian Jews. Believing that they could not rely on the British administration for protection from these gangs, the Jewish leadership created the Haganah to protect Jewish farms and kibbutzim. In addition to guarding Jewish communities, the role of the Haganah was to warn the residents of and repel attacks by Palestinian Arabs. In the period between 1920–1929, the Haganah lacked a strong central authority or coordination. Haganah "units" were very localized and poorly armed: they consisted mainly of Jewish farmers who took turns guarding their farms or their kibbutzim.


After WW-II arms were all over the place up for grabs by anyone. Before WW-II, arms were not as available due to the British embargo.


I'm not knocking your sources or opinion, just that it is what it is and nothing will change. Israel today is a very strong nation both militarily and economically. Hamas will have to negotiate or be destroyed, the ball is in their park so to speak, it is their choice.

 

[MHz]

Since the reality is it was a land grab in the truest sense of the word there are some 5 M Arabs that each deserve about 5M -20M as compensation for the abuses they and their relatives have been subject to.
25,000,000,000,000-100,000,000,000,000, not a big deal to the group that initiated the 'conflict who have some 500T in their petty cash drawer, might as well take another 60T and pay off the debt for every Nation. Think how many new jobs will be created printing and delivering all that 'loot'?

 

[ironsides]

Since the reality is it was a land grab in the truest sense of the word there are some 5 M Arabs that each deserve about 5M -20M as compensation for the abuses they and their relatives have been subject to.
25,000,000,000,000-100,000,000,000,000, not a big deal to the group that initiated the 'conflict who have some 500T in their petty cash drawer, might as well take another 60T and pay off the debt for every Nation. Think how many new jobs will be created printing and delivering all that 'loot'?

Sure, bill every member of the U.N. equally there the ones responsible.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Peace Pro...ce Process/UN General Assembly Resolution 181

 

[MHz]

Actually only 33 voted yes and of those 33 only 20 are considered as the leaders. In the quest for a lasting peace Canada should chip in 1T just to get the ball rolling.

n favour: 33
Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian S.S.R., Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxemburg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukrainian S.S.R., Union of South Africa, U.S.A., U.S.S.R., Uruguay, Venezuela.


You could excuse Haiti and the other 3rd world nations, like Venezuela and the USSR is defunct.

 

[earth_as_one]

Many are responsible for Palestinian suffering.

Every nation which voted in favor of creating Israel, effectively voted in favor of oppressing Palestinians. Yes Canada and these other nations should have to compensate Palestinians for the suffering which resulted from this injustice.

Many Muslim and Arab nations reacted to the Zionist ethnic cleansing war by treating their Jewish citizens poorly, created a second wave of refugees. These Arab Jews committed no crimes and many were punished unfairly, loosing land and property. Those that profited from these crimes gave little to no aid to Palestinians. These nations should also compensate Palestinians from their ill-gotten gains from their Jewish citizens. (IMO, we are talking about tens of thousands of Jews. Many Jews sold their belongings and immigrated to Israel. These people are not refugees).

Finally, the Zionist state of Israel has treated the local inhabitants very badly. This state has committed 60 years of war crimes and crimes against humanity and should compensate their victims for all the suffering they have caused over the years.

BTW, even third world nations like Haiti can help by accepting some Palestinian refugees. Wealthy countries like Canada and Israel could pick up the costs.

 

[Colpy]

Many are responsible for Palestinian suffering.

Every nation which voted in favor of creating Israel, effectively voted in favor of oppressing Palestinians. Yes Canada and these other nations should have to compensate Palestinians for the suffering which resulted from this injustice.

Many Muslim and Arab nations reacted to the Zionist ethnic cleansing war by treating their Jewish citizens poorly, created a second wave of refugees. These Arab Jews committed no crimes and many were punished unfairly, loosing land and property. Those that profited from these crimes gave little to no aid to Palestinians. These nations should also compensate Palestinians from their ill-gotten gains from their Jewish citizens. (IMO, we are talking about tens of thousands of Jews. Many Jews sold their belongings and immigrated to Israel. These people are not refugees).

Finally, the Zionist state of Israel has treated the local inhabitants very badly. This state has committed 60 years of war crimes and crimes against humanity and should compensate their victims for all the suffering they have caused over the years.

BTW, even third world nations like Haiti can help by accepting some Palestinian refugees. Wealthy countries like Canada and Israel could pick up the costs.

BALONEY

I have to say, your detachment from reality is evident in the ludicrous proposal that Haiti accept Palestinian refugees........do you understand how bad Haiti is? Lack of food, smashed housing, no water, no room, no fuel, a crime and murder rate beyond imagination................the Palestinians are much better off in Gaza, fer crying out loud. Not only that, Haiti has a population that is stolidly Roman Catholic.........talk about frying pan to fire!

As for the idiot Obama, and his "peace plan"....well says it all:

Peace in the Middle East? Don't bet on it

 

[earth_as_one]

BALONEY

I have to say, your detachment from reality is evident in the ludicrous proposal that Haiti accept Palestinian refugees........do you understand how bad Haiti is? Lack of food, smashed housing, no water, no room, no fuel, a crime and murder rate beyond imagination................the Palestinians are much better off in Gaza, fer crying out loud. Not only that, Haiti has a population that is stolidly Roman Catholic.........talk about frying pan to fire!

As for the idiot Obama, and his "peace plan"....well says it all:

Peace in the Middle East? Don't bet on it

I'm not implying we should send heavily armed Palestinian settlers to raze Haitian villages and build Palestinian only colonies in order redeem Haitian land, making the desert bloom in a land without people for a people without land.... oops sorry, wrong refugee crisis. That's been tried already and it doesn't work.

Haiti is not a thriving country, but many Palestinians especially those in Gaza might see Haiti and legal Haitian citizenship as an improvement in their situation. They would have blockade free access to food and medicine. Maybe they can build a house with blockade free access to construction material. Contrary to common perceptions, some Gazans are educated professionals and would help solve Haitian problems. ie. hospital/medical/health, engineering...

 

[MHz]

BALONEY

I have to say, your detachment from reality is evident in the ludicrous proposal that Haiti accept Palestinian refugees........do you understand how bad Haiti is? Lack of food, smashed housing, no water, no room, no fuel, a crime and murder rate beyond imagination................the Palestinians are much better off in Gaza, fer crying out loud. Not only that, Haiti has a population that is stolidly Roman Catholic.........talk about frying pan to fire!

Goes to show you what happens when America takes charge of the reconstruction, what's it at now about 2%.

In Haiti, only 2% of quake debris cleaned up | The News-Sentinel - Fort Wayne IN

 

[ironsides]

BTW, even third world nations like Haiti can help by accepting some Palestinian refugees. Wealthy countries like Canada and Israel could pick up the costs.

My God, what are you trying to do to those poor people, we all should move those people including the Haitians to a place where natural disaster are at a minimum and then have the UN help them rebuild a nation into their liking.

 

[captain morgan]

BTW, even third world nations like Haiti can help by accepting some Palestinian refugees. Wealthy countries like Canada and Israel could pick up the costs.

How about they pick up their own costs A good start would be to lobby Hamas and see if they'll curb their expenditures on weaponry for a short period.

 

[Colpy]

Ah, the truth will out....but not from the United Nations, that's for sure!!!!

Jonathan Kay: For the truth on the Gaza flotilla, don’t look to the UN Human Rights Council | Full Comment | National Post

Bloodstained Mavi Marmara by ?efik Dinç | Israel Right Side News

 

[Colpy]

O heck, here's a taste of the truth....as recorded by a Palestinian sympathizer on board.......

Several books about the flotilla incident have been recently published in Turkey. One of them was written by Şefik Dinç, a reporter for the popular Turkish newspaper Habertürk, who was on board the Mavi Marmara during the last flotilla. Şefik Dinç captured images of the violent confrontation between IHH operatives and their supporters on one hand and IDF soldiers on the other, concealed his photographs from the Israeli security forces, and managed to smuggle them into Turkey.
Şefik Dinç’s account is fairly balanced, giving considerable weight to events that he personally witnessed and experienced. While the IHH narrative is given at length, the author does not hesitate to expose the extreme violence used by IHH operatives against the IDF and criticize the Turkish government for not stopping the flotilla. “Let’s face it: the Mavi Marmara crisis was a calculated gamble,” writes Dinç in the foreword to his book. “People on the street said that Israel would not let the siege be broken. The Turkish government, by not preventing the incident, and the IHH, by insisting on entering Gaza, led to a harsh, non-compromising reaction from Israel, destabilizing the Middle East region again”.
The photographs and verbal descriptions match the plenty of information, according to which IHH operatives had made a well-designed plan to conduct a violent confrontation with the IDF. The author photographed IHH operatives beating IDF soldiers with iron bars and clubs (taken from a secret stash), kidnapping three of them, beating injured IDF soldiers after they were kidnapped, and trying to throw one of them into the sea. The journalist, who had earlier heard IHH leader Bulent Yildirim say in an interview that the resistance would be passive, witnessed and documented so-called “passive resistance” turning practically into violent behavior.
The author’s description clearly shows that IDF soldiers did not open fire until after other soldiers were attacked and taken hostage. He also quoted Bulent Yildirim’s deputy Hüseyin Oruç as saying that there had been no attempts from the Turkish government to recall the ships or prevent the flotilla from sailing.

http://www.crethiplethi.com/turkish...a-crisis-was-a-calculated-gamble/israel/2010/

 

[Skatchie]

This is an intriguing issue. The North American media actually portrays Israeli events in a much more favorable light, for the Israeli government, than the actual Israeli media does. You will never hear the truth from our media about this and any time a prominent person speaks about the actual Apartheid regime going on in Palestine they are branded as anti-semitic and the issues never get really discussed unless they are 100% in Israel's favor, case in point how Jimmy Carter, that's right Jimmy Carter - the one American in the world that has a firm grasp on the reality of that issue by working with both sides for 30+ years, gets branded as anti-semitic for saying nothing that wasn't 100% factually correct.

Israel isn't evil. They aren't singularly responsible for all things bad in the world but the facts are the facts. They are the aggressors. They aren't victims of anything. They haven't been in 65 years.

 

[Colpy]

This is an intriguing issue. The North American media actually portrays Israeli events in a much more favorable light, for the Israeli government, than the actual Israeli media does. You will never hear the truth from our media about this and any time a prominent person speaks about the actual Apartheid regime going on in Palestine they are branded as anti-semitic and the issues never get really discussed unless they are 100% in Israel's favor, case in point how Jimmy Carter, that's right Jimmy Carter - the one American in the world that has a firm grasp on the reality of that issue by working with both sides for 30+ years, gets branded as anti-semitic for saying nothing that wasn't 100% factually correct.

Israel isn't evil. They aren't singularly responsible for all things bad in the world but the facts are the facts. They are the aggressors. They aren't victims of anything. They haven't been in 65 years.

Apartheit! HA HA HA! That's hilarious!

Israel portrayed favourably by the western media! Stop it, you're killing me here!

Jimmy Carter! Failure as president, failure in negotiated end to North Korea's nuclear program, failure in the Middle east, sucker for every meglomaniacal looney tune walking the earth. The only time he is NOT a joke is when he is building houses for the poor.....he should STFU and continue with that.....

Thanks for the comic relief..

BTW, the guy I quoted was on the ship, is a Palestinian sympathizer.......and totally verifies Israel's claims on the situation....and he is a member of the Turkish media....so guess who has been lying???