Is the Quran or the Bible understandable?

[Torch light]

The reason why God commanded the Prophet and believers to follow the creed of Abraham:

Because Abraham was before Judaism and Christianity .. so God commanded to refer to Abraham and follow him because he was the stem and the origin of the heavenly monotheism, and he was against the idolatry and Abraham devoted himself to God alone without associate or peer.

I asked Abu Abd-Allah the Mahdi: What's your sect that you follow?
He said: "I follow the way of the first Muslim believers who believed and supported the Prophet, and I follow the Quran."

So he also declared that he did not follow any present sect of Muslims but he referred to the original teachings of the Prophet and the Quran revelation.

 

[Torch light]

In addition, God explained in the Quran 3: 67 that Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but was a monotheist devoting himself to God alone, and he was not any associater or idolater.

(Abraham was neither a Jew nor yet a Christian [as you claim], but was a "Hanief" [: exclusively devoting himself to God alone], a Muslim [: submitting himself to God], and was not one of the associaters f [: who associate idols or others with God in the worship.])
.............................................................................

67 f while you [Jews and Christians] have associated and disobeyed [as have many Muslims nowadays.]

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/3.htm#a3_67
quran-ayat.com/pret/3.htm#a3_67

 

[AnnaEmber]

lol Someone, anyone has yet to show me a god, or even evidence (other than hearsay and opinion) of gods.

 

[Cliffy]

lol Someone, anyone has yet to show me a god, or even evidence (other than hearsay and opinion) of gods.

Look in a mirror.

 

[Jinentonix]

What is readily apparent is you trolling even these types of threads in your attempt to discredit everything I say.

You think this is about you? :lol: Oh my, your ego is showing.

The Bible is understandable to me and I have a few threads here that show I can quote liberally from the book and add my own comments without having to reference any 'expert'.

Whoopty shit. I can quote Lord of the Rings. Doesn't make Gandalf real.

God doesn't gather everybody asap, He gathers a few and the rest are parkedf in the grave until the proper time. If understanding the words in the book means I will escape death then it means your lack of (ability to) understand means you are destined to die rather than remain alive.

Moses remained alive, Pharaoh didn't.

Of course your pathetic persecution complex didn't comprehend the fact that I didn't say the Bible wasn't understandable, I said it wasn't believable. Oh, and Moses is dead.

Which shows you know nothing and your own ego stops you from being able to even listen to what others have to say about the book. If you can't comprehend the message then there is no message. That is as far as you have gotten, stuck so the fault has to be in the book rather than in your head or the heads of all the 'experts' you know that are just as clueless as you are. This post of yours is not about the Bible, it is about smearing me so what I have to say is ignored while you (empty) words are meant to be the authoritative post. It shows you are a troll and clueless about God. What fuks you up is somebody like me, who can give a sane version of what the book is all about, including why this era we are in is a time when 'proof God exists' simply will not be found no matter how hard people look. The Bible is it as far as who is gathered sooner rather than later.

You really think this is about you? Yeah, I've never gone after any other religious idiots on this forum or anything. I grew up in the church there, sport. Took until I was 16 to figure out religion was bullshit. Took a few more years to figure out that god was bullshit too.


You claim you can quote the Bible almost chapter and verse. Okay great, so which version? There's a few dozen bibles covering various sects. So which Bible version and sect are the exact right ones with the absolute unerring word of god? Was Jonah swallowed by a great fish, or a whale? Were the pyramids actually built by Jewish slaves? History shows that stuff built by slave labour does not last and/or is unreliable. Why would god make "Thou shalt not commit murder" as one of his Big 10 commandments and then instruct the Isaelites to destroy Jericho and slaughter the population to the last child?


We know the story of Noah was simply a retelling of the older story of Gilgamesh.

The idea of "resurrection" was lifted from an older religion.
Moses' origin story was lifted from an older religion.
The concept of what hell is has changed at least three times in the history of Christianity. You'd think god would want to make it perfectly clear what hell was right from the beginning.
The reference to homosexuality in the ENGLISH and Modern Greek Bibles is a result of a horrible mis-translation. When the Bible was first translated into Latin, someone confused the word 'arsenokoites' to mean man sex. The Aramaic root of that word is roughly the same and both mean "temple prostitution", as it was common at the time for temples to use prostitution to raise funds for the temple. In some temples even the high priests and priestesses would sell their bodies. In the ancient Greek 'arsenokoites' literally translated as "man-bed". Although this implies the idea of homosexuality, at the time besides meaning temple prostitution, it was also used colloquially as the equivalent of our saying "He slept with her", with the knowledge or suspicion there was very little actual sleeping going on on.

However, as the Bible was translated from Greek to Latin, someone confused arsenokites to mean "man sex" by making the literal translation from Greek to Latin, confusing 'koites" to be the same thing as 'coitus'. In modern Greek today

arsenokoites means homosexual but that ain't what it meant when the Bible was originally translated into Greek.


And the passage in Leviticus is clearly referring to bisexuality, not homosexuality. But let's assume for a moment it was referring to being gay. That "law" was written specifically for the Israelites to help grow their fledgling nation. Spilling seed in infertile soil isn't going to get the job done. That "law" also referred to acts like your wife giving you a handy-J or a nice b'jobski. But seeing as how there's 7.5 billion people now, I'd say we got the population growth going just nicely. We can afford some gay people and a nice BJ from the wife.


No dude, this has NOTHING to do with you. This has everything to do with the narrow-mindedness of religion and the people who follow it.


Whoever we are, wherever we're from
We shoulda noticed by now, our behavior is dumb
And if our chances expect to improve
It's gonna take a lot more, than trying to remove the other race
Or the other whatever, from the face
Of the planet altogether

They call it THE EARTH, which is a dumb kinda name
But they named it right, cause we behave the same...
We are dumb all over
Dumb all over, yes we are
Dumb all over, near an' far
Dumb all over, black an' white
People, we is not wrapped tight

Nerds on the left, nerds on the right
Religious fanatics on the air every night
Saying the Bible tells the story
Makes the details sound real gory
About what to do if the geeks over there
Don't believe in the book we got over here

You can't run a race without no feet
An' pretty soon there won't be no street
For dummies to jog on or doggies to dog on
Religious fanatics can make it be all gone
It won't blow up an' disappear
It'll just look ugly for a thousand years...


You can't run a country by a book of religion
Not by a heap or a lump or a smidgen
Of foolish rules of ancient date
Designed to make you all feel great
While you fold, spindle and mutilate
Those unbelievers from a neighboring state

TO ARMS! TO ARMS! Hooray! That's great
Two legs ain't bad unless there's a crate
They ship the parts to mama in
For souvenirs: two ears - Get Down!
Not his, not hers, but what the hey?
The Good Book says: "It's gotta be that way!"
But their book says: "REVENGE THE CRUSADES!!!!..."
With whips an' chains an' hand grenades..."
TWO ARMS? TWO ARMS? Have another and another
Our God says: "There ain't no other!"
Our God says: "It's all okay!"
Our God says: "This is the way!"
It says in the book: "Burn and destroy....."
An' repent, an' redeem, an' revenge, an' deploy
An' rumble thee forth to the land of the unbelieving scum on the other side
Cause they don't go for what's in the Book
An' that makes 'em BAD
So All, verily we must choppeth them up
Or stompeth them down
Or rent a nice French bomb
to poof them out of existence
While leaving their real estate just where we need it
To use again for temples in which to praise OUR GOD
"Cause He can really take care of business!"


And when His humble TV servant
With humble white hair and humble glasses and a nice brown suit
And maybe a blond wife who takes phone calls
Tells us it's okay to do this stuff, then we're supposed do it
Cause if we don't do it, we ain't gwine up to hebbin!
(Depending on which book you're using at the time...)
Can't use theirs... it's all lies...... Gotta use mine... Ain't that right?
That's what they say -- Every night... Every day...
Hey, we can't really be dumb, if we're just following God's Orders
After all, He wrote this book here an' in the Book He says:
"He made us all to be just like Him,"
So... If we're dumb... Then God is dumb...
An' maybe even a little bit ugly on the side

DUMB ALL OVER – a little ugly on the side
DUMB ALL OVER – a little ugly on the side
DUMB ALL OVER – a little ugly on the side



-Frank Zappa

 

[MHz]

You think this is about you? :lol: Oh my, your ego is showing.

It is about me as far as I present my own arguments about why I promote that God in the Bible is a literal being, as such the 'events' are based on reality rather than myth. When the examples are included it boils to to 'yes or no' kind of thing.

Whoopty shit. I can quote Lord of the Rings. Doesn't make Gandalf real.

If I was to overlay the Bible there would be one more book to come out and it would start off with mant beings from space ariving and asking why most of the ones left alive are now in the grave kind of things, right in the middle of a beg celebration about them being all killed. 'Oops' will not begin to cover it.

Of course your pathetic persecution complex didn't comprehend the fact that I didn't say the Bible wasn't understandable, I said it wasn't believable. Oh, and Moses is dead.

The last 40 years must have sucked as he was on the wrong side of a single river. Does that also mean the exodus wars went better than the time allotted for them. There was also 40 years between the cross and the temple being dismantled in 70AD. Things that are not important when it is a myth rather than reality unfolding.

You really think this is about you?

As I said only as far as I cannot supply any links to an explanation to what the literal version looks like. If that is a thorn in your side I'll try and not show how happy that makes me, . . . too often.

Yeah, I've never gone after any other religious idiots on this forum or anything.

I wouldn't know, I only pay attention to the ones that reply to something i have posted. Take away the troll posts and that is not a high number when you base it on the few threads I have started.
'Gone after' and 'showed the flaws in their theory' have how much in common or is brow beating the tactic about to be used?

I grew up in the church there, sport. Took until I was 16 to figure out religion was bullshit.

So what, unless you were writing the sermons that means squat about what is taking place in the here and now, . . . Pal.
Is that about the same age your parents became liars too?? How about social injustice like South Africa in 1960?? You were in their face were you?? I think not in reality.

Took a few more years to figure out that god was bullshit too.

I took a break about the same time and came back to the book alone when I was an adult of about 35. Then I picked it up using my own free-will. That was about 30 years ago of reading at 'hobby level'.

You claim you can quote the Bible almost chapter and verse.

What I said was I can show what part of the book a passage is covering. Depending on the topic there are a few verses or a lot of verses involved. The event we call 'the return' is the most propheciesed event in the whole book so the 'big picture' leaves nothing to the imagination. That also means there is more than a handful pf prophecies that have to be explored. My version can be explained in a few days, even with a hard headed student like you.

Okay great, so which version? There's a few dozen bibles covering various sects. So which Bible version and sect are the exact right ones with the absolute unerring word of god?

The 1611KJV uses the original Greek for the NT and the original Hebrew for the OT. It also has a copyright so all other English bibles have to be quite a bit different or they would not have their own copyright. It brings in money rather than it makes the book easier to understand.

Was Jonah swallowed by a great fish, or a whale?

God drowned him, men saw a fish take him away and different men saw a fish bring him to a beach. it was not the same fish. You are an adult using the memory of a child to formulate your doctrine about what the bible is and what it isn't.

Jon:2:5:
The waters compassed me about,
even to the soul:
the depth closed me round about,
the weeds were wrapped about my head.

Were the pyramids actually built by Jewish slaves?

The father of the 12 Tribes arrived in Egypt as a slave, sold into slavery by his own brothers. Would the Pharaoh allow a 'despised slave' to be a 'nanny' to the children of Royalty??

History shows that stuff built by slave labour does not last and/or is unreliable.

Nor do lies survive the test of time.

Why would god make "Thou shalt not commit murder" as one of his Big 10 commandments and then instruct the Isaelites to destroy Jericho and slaughter the population to the last child?

The 10 Commandments were the law that would be in pace during the completion of the two bruises from Ge:3:15. The law that was used in Ge:6 is the Re:21 law and 'died' when the last 6 fingered giant died in the exodus wars. The nations that had children taken were all from 5-fingered people like Noah and his wife and 3 sons. Their 3 wives were 6 fingered women and taht is how giants made a comeback after the flood.

We know the story of Noah was simply a retelling of the older story of Gilgamesh.

Was that flood by rain?? The oceans have risen over 400ft since the ice began to melt. There should be many flood stories. The water involved would drop the ocean's level by 5 ft. The same animals Adam named in Ge:2 would have entered the ark. Rain fell as snow on the high hills and mountains,l that is why it took 5 months before the rocks were visible. All possible in reality as we preach history today.

The idea of "resurrection" was lifted from an older religion.

Who is included by the end of the book??

Moses' origin story was lifted from an older religion.

Where does his death at 120 get related to that Isa:65 verse?? Nowhere except a post I made.

The concept of what hell is has changed at least three times in the history of Christianity. You'd think god would want to make it perfectly clear what hell was right from the beginning.
The reference to homosexuality in the ENGLISH and Modern Greek Bibles is a result of a horrible mis-translation. When the Bible was first translated into Latin, someone confused the word 'arsenokoites' to mean man sex. The Aramaic root of that word is roughly the same and both mean "temple prostitution", as it was common at the time for temples to use prostitution to raise funds for the temple. In some temples even the high priests and priestesses would sell their bodies. In the ancient Greek 'arsenokoites' literally translated as "man-bed". Although this implies the idea of homosexuality, at the time besides meaning temple prostitution, it was also used colloquially as the equivalent of our saying "He slept with her", with the knowledge or suspicion there was very little actual sleeping going on on.

However, as the Bible was translated from Greek to Latin, someone confused arsenokites to mean "man sex" by making the literal translation from Greek to Latin, confusing 'koites" to be the same thing as 'coitus'. In modern Greek today

arsenokoites means homosexual but that ain't what it meant when the Bible was originally translated into Greek.

And the passage in Leviticus is clearly referring to bisexuality, not homosexuality. But let's assume for a moment it was referring to being gay. That "law" was written specifically for the Israelites to help grow their fledgling nation. Spilling seed in infertile soil isn't going to get the job done. That "law" also referred to acts like your wife giving you a handy-J or a nice b'jobski. But seeing as how there's 7.5 billion people now, I'd say we got the population growth going just nicely. We can afford some gay people and a nice BJ from the wife.

No dude, this has NOTHING to do with you. This has everything to do with the narrow-mindedness of religion and the people who follow it.

Hell is extra punishment for those who had better signs of the reality of God. As in alive during the 1260 days the two witnesses are in Jerusalem compared to having just a book that the reader alone has to figure out.

 

[Torch light]

lol Someone, anyone has yet to show me a god, or even evidence (other than hearsay and opinion) of gods.

One can see nature and universe round about, and will know God the Creator.. but to see Him by the eye is impossible because He is Lofty and a God of pride and Highness.
So man with all His dirt cannot see God Almighty the Creator.. but the mind tells him about God's existence and might.

 

[AnnaEmber]

One can see nature and universe round about, and will know God the Creator.. but to see Him by the eye is impossible because He is Lofty and a God of pride and Highness.
So man with all His dirt cannot see God Almighty the Creator.. but the mind tells him about God's existence and might.

Yes, I have eyes so I can see. So what? Who made your watch? If you don't know their name, you sure can't expect me to think that you know who or how the universe was created.
You are just echoing the words of others that gods exist. That is called "hearsay".
Again, show me a god and I will definitiely think it exists. Until you do that, gods don't exist.

 

[Torch light]

Yes, I have eyes so I can see.

Although guidance is up to God Himself; He guides the one that deserves the guidance, and misguides the one deserving the misguidance (being a wrong-doer).

Not everything that your eye does not see, is not existing .. i.e. your eyes cannot see everything, while God is not material being that our eye can see; and if we saw Him, He then would be a defective thing that we could see; i.e. we see only the limited things, with borders, surfaces and colors ..etc.

While God is Loftier than the matter and Proud over being seen and does not sit with the material creatures whom He created and it can't be.

But God is Existing by the indications: the marvelous creation and the wonderful work that He has done in the nature and to living beings and non-living matter.

Again, show me a god and I will definitiely think it exists. Until you do that, gods don't exist.

Again, you can see only the idols, statues and planets which are the false gods, while the True God the Creator cannot be seen by the material eyes nor by the spiritual sights.

And this is about God in the Quran 6: 103, which means:
(Sights perceive Him not j, but He does perceive sights, and He is the Compassionate [about His servants], the Well-Aware [about His creatures.])
.............................................................................
103 j The "sight" is the eye of the soul, the plural is "sights".
It means: Neither do souls see Him with their sights, nor do bodies see Him with their eyes.
http://quran-ayat.com/pret/6.htm#a6_103
quran-ayat.com/pret/6.htm#a6_103

This may be similar to a revelation in the Gospel, when Jesus Christ said to his disciples: Do some charity works in secret [and hiding], because your Lord Who is 'Hidden and Invisible' sees the secret and the hidden work done in secret.

 

[MHz]

Again, show me a god and I will definitiely think it exists. Until you do that, gods don't exist.

God hides all proof that He is real and you want to have proof before you become a believer. Best of luck with that.

Joh:20:26-29:
And after eight days again his disciples were within,
and Thomas with them:
then came Jesus,
the doors being shut,
and stood in the midst,
and said,
Peace be unto you.
Then saith he to Thomas,
Reach hither thy finger,
and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand,
and thrust it into my side:
and be not faithless,
but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him,
My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him,
Thomas,
because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed:
blessed are they that have not seen,
and yet have believed.

 

[MHz]

This may be similar to a revelation in the Gospel, when Jesus Christ said to his disciples: Do some charity works in secret [and hiding], because your Lord Who is 'Hidden and Invisible' sees the secret and the hidden work done in secret.

You should give up on improving what the Bible says.
Jas:2:15-17:
If a brother or sister be naked,
and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them,
Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith,
if it hath not works,
is dead,
being alone.