Is Boadicea buried at a McDonald's?

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Is Boadicea buried at

oh yeah!!!............I forgot about that!!...nope, she's not Irish, I would be surprised if she even knew what ireland was!.

 

[Blackleaf]

She lived in what is now England - so we can consider her to be English, even though there was no England as we know it in those days.

And just because she was Celtic rather than Germanic or Anglo-Saxon doesn't mean we can't claim her as England's.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Is Boadicea buried at

my point entirely blackleaf, my point exactly....I fear a lot of people think to be "English" you have to be a bad guy...sorry too much hollywood movies I'm afraid

I'll call her English....never Irish, she stood up to the italian/roman invaders, not the english, so how can she EVER be used to promote ireland?

 

[Finder]

two things.

I never said she was Irish, I indeed said she was Breton and celtic, and that is why I believe the Celts and the British think of her well.

Also I don't believe the "English" are evil. But to call her english is... well... I'm sorry to say somewhat wrong since she would of spoken a dielec of gaelic and well english didn't really exsist back then. The Saxon tongue at this time wasn't even known and by the time we know how they sounded about 300-400 years after Boadica the Saxon tongue still would not be considered anything close to english.

But if you guys want to both somehow believe Bodica was "English" and was not celtic (as is widely known and is a except fact by British historians) go ahead. Who am I to stop you. Well we are changing history why don't we just say these people also spoke english and were anglo-saxons before they were even in western europe and way before english was ever spoken too!

 

[Finder]

Blackleaf if you read what I said before I said there is no reason why Celtic and Anglo-saxon people can not share her.

 

[Finder]

Just because I want to post more then one source.

http://www.answers.com/topic/iceni

Slightly different topic. The Celtic Iceni peoples which were Boadicea's clan/tribe. Dax and Blackleaf, though I totally rspect her as a celtic and british hero and would not say she is not one but the other, I still assert she is a celtic hero, to all celtic peoples and ango-saxon British peoples who now live in the area Boadicea and her peoples once lived in. Some Celts may find this laughable because the Saxons from which the British Anglo-saxons come from wiped out many Celtic tribes in the area and pushed them westwards. But I think this is being to mythical with your nationalism. But to assert that celtic peoples should not see her as a celtic hero is absurd.

If you wish to see her as "English" why don't you do even more revision to history and even though christianity was not in this area yet, make her Christian too. Better yet since you guys are anti-catholic why don't you make her church of england too.


Anyhow I'm happy to know most British people are either happy enough in ignorance of her roots just to see her as a hero of the Ancient British People and the Celtic peoples of Ireland (I don't know if Scotland and wales think of her as a hero so I won't lump them in) see her as such as well.

 

[Blackleaf]

She wasn't English - but even though she was Celtic she also wasn't Welsh or Scottish.

But the English have more of a claim to her than the Celtic nations do because she lived in what is now Essex in England.

 

[Finder]

Man you love to argue that someone has more rights then others Blackleaf and won't ever take the idea that something can be shared?

As I said many times she did live in those areas. I do not think you could coin her tribe onto any of the existing celtic ethnicities. If they ever did it would be an amazing feat, which I would not put past British archaeologist.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Is Boadicea buried at

I thought she came from norfolk blackleaf?.......also, the celtic britons who lived in England....they didnt all go to wales you know?...the only thing that happened to most of them is that they interbred with the invading saxons...which is where the modern english come in, besides, if she did stay celtic...she'd be welsh...which I recall finder dismissing as celtic before anyway.

my families never really moved much from the south of england and certainly half of them were either here before the saxons or with them...so Crazy horse isnt an american hero?.....

 

[Finder]

Daz_Hockey, well actually modern english doesn't come from interbreding between the Saxons and the celts. Modern English is a mix of Norman and Saxon tongues.

The Celts are thought to have generally been pushed back by the invading Saxons. Though of course this is ancient history and I am sure there was some intermarrying. Just like how they believe the Romanized Celts/Bretons didn't leave either. They even think some Romans may have actually stayed as well after the withdraw of the Roman Empire from the Isles.

If you ever get a chance to listen to Gaelic, at least a proper speaking of Gaelic it sounds nothing like a Germanic tongue, nor a Romantic tongue at all. At best it sounds like gibberish if you ask me.

But modern day English does have some celtic words in it but I'd say it is more influced by the saxon tongue which is germanic and the French/Norman tongue which is romantic.


EDIT: Knowing how much Blackleaf hates the french I wonder if he will admit the Norman/French influance on the english language. This will be interesting to read.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Is Boadicea buried at

yeah I wonder what blackleaf's "beef" is lol...just a little example....I'm not saying they wernt pushed back to wales, but I do not believe they all were, but this is all academic.

I think the point I made about crazy horse being an american hero was a relevant one though.....what I'm trying to say in a round about way is that even if I was a recent immigrant from bukina faso to england, I'd still consider myself english because I live here...all I'm saying is that it really has nothing to with who lives there, but the land itself.

 

[Finder]

I understand what you are saying and that is why I think it is just understod that Boadica is an english hero as well as a celtic one. I think very few celtic historians would really argue or waste there time argueing otherwise. Although I'm sure there are some British historians who have. lol.

But anyhow Daz, a lot of things are lost to history and really, I doubt her tribe even lived long enough to the saxon invasion. Most likely what happend was the Romans once they crushed her tribe sold many of them into slavery, perhaps romanized the rest and I doubt the ones who excaped just didn't get absorbed into another celtic tribe completely. In the end I don't think it matters which celtic tribe her people were closest too, I doubt any of really cares. It is what she did and stood up for which matters and that is why she is a hero. Well and if the Irish Celts wish to see her as a hero of the celtic people well I think it's kewl I could not see why anyone would get offended by this. I think it's adding honour to her. Not only to be honoured by the people who live where you are but by people from other places as well.

 

[Daz_Hockey]

RE: Is Boadicea buried at

I think it's probably because irish hero's/figureheads (apart fromst. Patrick...all though he had his arguements with em) tend to be hero's for standing up against english/british tyrany...I think thats why finder, she stood up for the britons not against them (and even back then they wernt one big happy celtic family, they fought each over probably more than in the '20s!)

 

[Finder]

Daz I think that is a misconception born in some truth. There are a lot of Irish hero's who have stood up to British tyranny but when you consider many of the ancient celtic hero's do not even come from Ireland as Ireland and the UK was largely back waters of no immportance in ancient times, leaders such as Brennus stick out as well known Celtic leaders. In fact the most well known celtic hero's I can not think of one which came from Ireland until maybe St Patrick, and he wasn't even Irish he was Romaized Breton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brennus

Or

Vercingetorix
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vercingetorix


There's so many but none are from Ireland because Ireland is isloated and really a back water at this time. The celtic hero's you are thinking are from the middle ages up perhaps.