innocent until proven guilty

[JamesBondo]

Quite a few scumbags have fallen from their high status over allegations then eventually convicted of heinous acts of rape, child abuse, sexual abuse. There is no shortage of names so I won't bother mentioning them.

In most cases, the media has profiled the case so thoroughly that these guys are guilty in the eyes of the public long before they are convicted.

The one thing that I've never seen anyone do is post a comment like 'STFU, he is innocent until proven guilty'.

And, why would we? The information that we have tells us that the guy is a scumbag, and to post a comment in favor of the presumption of innocence would get you labeled as a supporter of a scumbag.

I don't want to be labeled a supporter of a scumbag because I'm not. I don't suppose that many are, so we bite our tongues and keep silent.

What has happened with our love of due process? Has it gone the way of the dodo bird? Why do we even bother with a trial?

A trial doesn't appear to be an important step for most citizens these days. Does this disturb you at least a little bit?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The funniest part of all is hearing the Tight White Right piss and moan about due process.

What have these individuals lost? Their jobs. And that's all.

The Tight White Right has long held as an article of faith that employment is at-will, and that a boss can fire you for "a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all." And they have been strong, stalwart, and persistent in opposing any attempt to create rights in employment.

Suddenly, the people being fired are powerful white men, and the TWR is sounding like the IWW! "Oh, but what about their rights?"

They have no rights, Cletus. There is no right to a job, absent a contract provision. Your kind has worked for over a century to make damn sure of that. So suck it.


Perhaps I'm being too harsh. Perhaps you're not being whimpering hypocrites. Maybe you're just too stupid to understand the difference between employment and criminal trials. So actually, in calling you whimpering hypocrites, I'm paying you the compliment of assuming you're not simply drooling imbeciles.

Ain't I a nice guy?

 

[Curious Cdn]

The funniest part of all is hearing the Tight White Right piss and moan about due process.

What have these individuals lost? Their jobs. And that's all.

The Tight White Right has long held as an article of faith that employment is at-will, and that a boss can fire you for "a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all." And they have been strong, stalwart, and persistent in opposing any attempt to create rights in employment.

Suddenly, the people being fired are powerful white men, and the TWR is sounding like the IWW! "Oh, but what about their rights?"

They have no rights, Cletus. There is no right to a job, absent a contract provision. Your kind has worked for over a century to make damn sure of that. So suck it.


Perhaps I'm being too harsh. Perhaps you're not being whimpering hypocrites. Maybe you're just too stupid to understand the difference between employment and criminal trials. So actually, in calling you whimpering hypocrites, I'm paying you the compliment of assuming you're not simply drooling imbeciles.

Ain't I a nice guy?

We were watching with interest all of the media types getting the instantaneous sack down in the US over the last month. You can't do that, here ... at least, not without due process.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

We were watching with interest all of the media types getting the instantaneous sack down in the US over the last month. You can't do that, here ... at least, not without due process.

It's also funny that "due process" is a term the rest of the West has borrowed from the U.S. It's in the Fifth Amendment.
". . . nor shall any person be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law."

As I said, the right was instrumental in seeing to it that a job is not property (or liberty) in the United States. And now they're squealing, because it turns out that sexual assailants and child molesters are the only people in the entire workforce they give a damn about.

 

[Curious Cdn]

I wonder if any innocent parties are getting the axe during this purge?. Who's to know?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I wonder if any innocent parties are getting the axe during this purge?. Who's to know?

Possibly. I rather doubt it. Contrary to popular belief (and Tight White Right fears) they aren't firing people just on accusation. There generally is an investigation, it's just that, as the Tight White Right has insisted for over 100 years, the investigation and the process by which it is conducted is entirely up to the employer, and need not be disclosed.

They got EXACTLY what they wanted, and now they're squealing. They shoulda put in a proviso "not to be used against rich white guys."

 

[Curious Cdn]

Possibly. I rather doubt it. Contrary to popular belief (and Tight White Right fears) they aren't firing people just on accusation. There generally is an investigation, it's just that, as the Tight White Right has insisted for over 100 years, the investigation and the process by which it is conducted is entirely up to the employer, and need not be disclosed.

They got EXACTLY what they wanted, and now they're squealing. They shoulda put in a proviso "not to be used against rich white guys."

I'm happy to see a pig-man like Weinstein get his comeuppance. Every pretty young woman trying to get somewhere in Hollywood has to overcome this (and other) Cyclops to get a job.

 

[TenPenny]

The one thing that I've never seen anyone do is post a comment like 'STFU, he is innocent until proven guilty'.

If you've never seen that, then you aren't reading anything.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Being wrongfully accused and lambasted in the media would suck.
When you get that stink on you, it's damned near impossible to get off.

 

[captain morgan]

Apparently white men deserve it regardless of the reality of truth

 

[TenPenny]

What's funny is that, in the case of the latest round of politicians etc that are accused, the women who made the accusations are suffering as well, being accused of lying, being stalked, being called names constantly, etc etc.




I can see why women would keep quiet, coming out with this kind of thing makes you a target.

 

[Hoid]

What has happened with our love of due process??

I guess generation after generation of rampant lawlessness where thousands of people simply got away with whatever abuse they wanted to indulge in has sort of tempered our love of due process. Since it has never existed its of hard hard t miss it.

 

[pgs]

What's funny is that, in the case of the latest round of politicians etc that are accused, the women who made the accusations are suffering as well, being accused of lying, being stalked, being called names constantly, etc etc.




I can see why women would keep quiet, coming out with this kind of thing makes you a target.

Look at the Jon Quomeshi (or however you spell it ) trial for a prime example , who would want to go through that .

I guess generation after generation of rampant lawlessness where thousands of people simply got away with whatever abuse they wanted to indulge in has sort of tempered our love of due process. Since it has never existed its of hard hard t miss it.

The sixties and seventies man , sex drugs and rock and roll , tune in tune out and the sexual revolution , free love man .

 

[Hoid]

I don't think the Flower Children had Roy Moore or Donald Trump in mind when they were talking about free love.

 

[WLDB]

The court of public opinion has always had different rules from actual legal courts and always will. No one is denying these people legal due process.

 

[avro25]

This is all great.

When is Moore going to sue these women?

The same day Trump hasen’t sued his accusers?

“Snicker”

 

[WLDB]

We were watching with interest all of the media types getting the instantaneous sack down in the US over the last month. You can't do that, here ... at least, not without due process.

Sure you can. There was a guy who was fired from where I work because it came to light that he had molested children. There apparently wasn’t enough evidence to get a conviction but he was dropped pretty quickly. Jian Ghomeshi got fired before he was charged or tried. In both cases I don’t see that as a really bad thing. I wouldn’t want to work with either of them.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Sure you can. There was a guy who was fired from where I work because it came to light that he had molested children. There apparently wasn’t enough evidence to get a conviction but he was dropped pretty quickly. Jian Ghomeshi got fired before he was charged or tried. In both cases I don’t see that as a really bad thing. I wouldn’t want to work with either of them.

Nor I but the law is supposed to protect you until guilt is properly established.

 

[Hoid]

The court of public opinion has always had different rules from actual legal courts and always will. No one is denying these people legal due process.

they are actively avoiding/evading due legal process ffs

 

[TenPenny]

Nor I but the law is supposed to protect you until guilt is properly established.

The law protects you from a legal point of view. Society is a different thing.