Immigration: does Canada really get it?

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
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Das Kapital
Re: RE: Immigration: does Can

SaintLucifer said:
[

China is a developing nation. What was that about their technological or product life cycle? The Chinese produce by far the majority of the world's products. So it takes more to produce than they are receiving in return? This is why they are by far the world's fastest-growing economy? Oooookkkkkk.

Google product life or technological life cycle. Not a country's product and technology life cycle. Ooooooook.

Now, I didn't say this is the case for each and every thing that is produced and manufactored in China. Many other factors contribute to lower production costs in China. However, the above mentioned is also a factor in outsourcing production and manufactoring of certain products.

Ethiopia? You do realise China was not too far from being like Ethiopia yes? Where do you think all of our monetary aid to Ethiopa goes? Food? You wish. Think military. Think tinpot dictator. There you do. We are handing cash over to African military dictators who simply divert all of that Canadian cash aid to their bank accounts in Zurich. Do not believe me? Look it up on any site. It is fact.

Good greif. I didn't say 'i have no problem handing over my tax dollars so our government can dole them out to any dicator they see fit'. What I said was "I have no problem contributing money.....' as in....I have no problem contributing personally to non-governmental organizations, for the purpose of educating women and children. I was unaware of the fact that our government gave aid specifically for this purpose. Unless you know other wise.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
athabaska said:
Said1 said:
athabaska said:
quote: "And no, I have no problem contributing to implementation programs aimed at educating women and children in developing nations".

The only aid I agree with is condoms. Boat loads full of condoms. Whenever I get one of those envelopes in the mail requesting a donation I drop in the best aid you can give...a condom.

Those too. Still, it would help if those not able to attend the seminar could read the fliers.

why? are they stupid? Where does all that aid go? Send condoms with visual instructions. My guess is, however, that they are not too stupid to read but too stupid not to take responsibility for their own lives.

What aid?

Anyway, I think you missed my point about low literacy rates and being able to read fliers. Those numbers are twice as high for women.
 

athabaska

Electoral Member
Dec 26, 2005
313
0
16
Said1 said:
athabaska said:
Said1 said:
athabaska said:
quote: "And no, I have no problem contributing to implementation programs aimed at educating women and children in developing nations".

The only aid I agree with is condoms. Boat loads full of condoms. Whenever I get one of those envelopes in the mail requesting a donation I drop in the best aid you can give...a condom.

Those too. Still, it would help if those not able to attend the seminar could read the fliers.

why? are they stupid? Where does all that aid go? Send condoms with visual instructions. My guess is, however, that they are not too stupid to read but too stupid not to take responsibility for their own lives.

What aid?

Anyway, I think you missed my point about low literacy rates and being able to read fliers. Those numbers are twice as high for women.

???? Try billions and billions. Canada has a whole ministry set up to piss away billions.

If India can spend billions to develop nucler weapons I don't want my tax dollars sent to increase literacy in that country. If a country spends 25cents on a bullet for a gun (try 40 African basketcase states) then they can divert that 25 cents to buy a pencil before they get 2 cents from me.
 

Said1

Hubba Hubba
Apr 18, 2005
5,336
66
48
51
Das Kapital
athabaska said:
Said1 said:
athabaska said:
Said1 said:
athabaska said:
quote: "And no, I have no problem contributing to implementation programs aimed at educating women and children in developing nations".

The only aid I agree with is condoms. Boat loads full of condoms. Whenever I get one of those envelopes in the mail requesting a donation I drop in the best aid you can give...a condom.

Those too. Still, it would help if those not able to attend the seminar could read the fliers.

why? are they stupid? Where does all that aid go? Send condoms with visual instructions. My guess is, however, that they are not too stupid to read but too stupid not to take responsibility for their own lives.

What aid?

Anyway, I think you missed my point about low literacy rates and being able to read fliers. Those numbers are twice as high for women.

???? Try billions and billions. Canada has a whole ministry set up to piss away billions.

If India can spend billions to develop nucler weapons I don't want my tax dollars sent to increase literacy in that country. If a country spends 25cents on a bullet for a gun (try 40 African basketcase states) then they can divert that 25 cents to buy a pencil before they get 2 cents from me.

Canada contributes billions in aid money, ear marked specifically for literacy programs for educating women and children? I know they have in the past given through the UN, for this purpose, but I've never heard of direct aid to any third world or developing nation's government for education. You do have links to support your claims, right? I'd be interested in reading all about it. :)
 

notme01

Nominee Member
Jul 6, 2006
53
0
6
http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/2004/4/6_5.html

http://www.makepovertyhistory.ca/e/aim3.html

site that shows how stupid forein aids is and how much this money should be sspend on canadians


More than five million Canadians, or 17.9%, were living below the poverty line in 1996. These numbers underestimate the number of poor Canadians because they do not include Aboriginal people on reserves, residents of the Yukon and Northwest Territories, and people who live in institutions.

In 1996, child poverty reached 20.9 %, a 17-year peak.
61% of single mothers live in poverty.
Since 1989 the number of food banks has tripled and the proportion of the population relying on them has doubled.
One in five Canadians over 65 live below the poverty line.
The poverty rate for individuals with no family is 40.2%. If you’re young and single, the rate jumps to 63.7%.
The richest fifth of Canadians receives close to one half of all the income in Canada while the poorest fifth receive just 3.1%.
43.4% of Aboriginal people, 35.9% of visible minorities and 30.8 per cent of persons with disabilities were poor in 1995.
1.4 million Canadians, or 8.4 % of the population, are unemployed.

Jesus identified himself with the poor and hungry people, with those who suffer and are in need of help. Thus, we are presented with a profound mystery: God in Christ is present in a special way in poor and hungry people (see Matthew 25:31-46). Christ represents himself to us in a special way in the hungry, the naked and the sick. He is among us in the outcasts and the oppressed of our age. Their cry for justice is Christ’s cry for justice.
The Salvation Army’s Positional Statement on Poverty and Economic Justice reads in part: “The measure of any society is how well it cares for its weakest citizens. The persistence both of widespread poverty and indifference to that poverty in Canada and Bermuda is morally unacceptable. Jesus Christ motivates us to love our neighbour in practical ways. Our response to the poor is a measure of our obedience to and love for God.”
As Christians, we are called “to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free … to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-when you see the naked, to clothe him … Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins and will raise up the age-old foundations” (Isaiah 58:6,7,12).

8 Myths About Poverty

1. Poverty is the failure of the individual
Massive increases in unemployment in Canada in recent years have not resulted from personal inadequacy. Many workers have lost their jobs for reasons beyond their control (economic crisis, illness or disability) and cannot find work because it is not available.

2. The poor do not want to work
The fact is that most poor people do work full or part-time-over 60% of those heading poor families and over 70% of poor unattached individuals. Of people dependent on welfare, about 37% are children, 16% are single mothers and 24% are disabled.

3. Poor people do not pay taxes
Having to pay income tax starts far below the poverty line. A single mother with two children in 1991 started paying federal tax when her income reached $11,601; a single person without dependants was taxed at an income level of $6,532. And the poor still pay sales tax, GST and property taxes.

4. Welfare rates are too generous
All welfare rates are well below the poverty line. The highest rates are still 20% below; the lowest are 76% below the poverty line.

5. Poor people need to be taught basic life skills like budgeting
Many live far below the poverty line and must spend all or most of their income on basic needs. Anyone who manages to feed and clothe a family on a very limited income already has budgeting skills.

6. The welfare system is rife with cheating and fraud
A study conducted by a national auditing firm estimated fraud to be in the range of 3% of the welfare budget. On the other hand, there are estimates that income tax fraud is in the order of 20%.

7. Poor families are poor because they have too many children
Most poor families have less than two children. Only 15% have 3 or more children under 18. Recent studies show children in poor families are more likely to suffer chronic health problems and twice as likely to drop out of school.

8. We cannot afford the social programs needed to eliminate poverty
According to per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP), Canada is more prosperous than all European countries. However, Canada spends less on social security and other income support measures (including EI and welfare) as a share of GDP than most
http://www.waterlooregion.org/poverty/talk/5.html
 

SaintLucifer

Electoral Member
Jul 10, 2006
324
0
16
athabaska said:
Said1 said:
athabaska said:
Said1 said:
athabaska said:
quote: "And no, I have no problem contributing to implementation programs aimed at educating women and children in developing nations".

The only aid I agree with is condoms. Boat loads full of condoms. Whenever I get one of those envelopes in the mail requesting a donation I drop in the best aid you can give...a condom.

Those too. Still, it would help if those not able to attend the seminar could read the fliers.

why? are they stupid? Where does all that aid go? Send condoms with visual instructions. My guess is, however, that they are not too stupid to read but too stupid not to take responsibility for their own lives.

What aid?

Anyway, I think you missed my point about low literacy rates and being able to read fliers. Those numbers are twice as high for women.

???? Try billions and billions. Canada has a whole ministry set up to piss away billions.

If India can spend billions to develop nucler weapons I don't want my tax dollars sent to increase literacy in that country. If a country spends 25cents on a bullet for a gun (try 40 African basketcase states) then they can divert that 25 cents to buy a pencil before they get 2 cents from me.

Hear, hear!!
 

SaintLucifer

Electoral Member
Jul 10, 2006
324
0
16
Re: RE: Immigration: does Canada really get it?

notme01 said:
http://www.tibet.ca/en/wtnarchive/2004/4/6_5.html

http://www.makepovertyhistory.ca/e/aim3.html

site that shows how stupid forein aids is and how much this money should be sspend on canadians


More than five million Canadians, or 17.9%, were living below the poverty line in 1996. These numbers underestimate the number of poor Canadians because they do not include Aboriginal people on reserves, residents of the Yukon and Northwest Territories, and people who live in institutions.

In 1996, child poverty reached 20.9 %, a 17-year peak.
61% of single mothers live in poverty.
Since 1989 the number of food banks has tripled and the proportion of the population relying on them has doubled.
One in five Canadians over 65 live below the poverty line.
The poverty rate for individuals with no family is 40.2%. If you’re young and single, the rate jumps to 63.7%.
The richest fifth of Canadians receives close to one half of all the income in Canada while the poorest fifth receive just 3.1%.
43.4% of Aboriginal people, 35.9% of visible minorities and 30.8 per cent of persons with disabilities were poor in 1995.
1.4 million Canadians, or 8.4 % of the population, are unemployed.

Jesus identified himself with the poor and hungry people, with those who suffer and are in need of help. Thus, we are presented with a profound mystery: God in Christ is present in a special way in poor and hungry people (see Matthew 25:31-46). Christ represents himself to us in a special way in the hungry, the naked and the sick. He is among us in the outcasts and the oppressed of our age. Their cry for justice is Christ’s cry for justice.
The Salvation Army’s Positional Statement on Poverty and Economic Justice reads in part: “The measure of any society is how well it cares for its weakest citizens. The persistence both of widespread poverty and indifference to that poverty in Canada and Bermuda is morally unacceptable. Jesus Christ motivates us to love our neighbour in practical ways. Our response to the poor is a measure of our obedience to and love for God.”
As Christians, we are called “to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free … to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter-when you see the naked, to clothe him … Your people will rebuild the ancient ruins and will raise up the age-old foundations” (Isaiah 58:6,7,12).

8 Myths About Poverty

1. Poverty is the failure of the individual
Massive increases in unemployment in Canada in recent years have not resulted from personal inadequacy. Many workers have lost their jobs for reasons beyond their control (economic crisis, illness or disability) and cannot find work because it is not available.

2. The poor do not want to work
The fact is that most poor people do work full or part-time-over 60% of those heading poor families and over 70% of poor unattached individuals. Of people dependent on welfare, about 37% are children, 16% are single mothers and 24% are disabled.

3. Poor people do not pay taxes
Having to pay income tax starts far below the poverty line. A single mother with two children in 1991 started paying federal tax when her income reached $11,601; a single person without dependants was taxed at an income level of $6,532. And the poor still pay sales tax, GST and property taxes.

4. Welfare rates are too generous
All welfare rates are well below the poverty line. The highest rates are still 20% below; the lowest are 76% below the poverty line.

5. Poor people need to be taught basic life skills like budgeting
Many live far below the poverty line and must spend all or most of their income on basic needs. Anyone who manages to feed and clothe a family on a very limited income already has budgeting skills.

6. The welfare system is rife with cheating and fraud
A study conducted by a national auditing firm estimated fraud to be in the range of 3% of the welfare budget. On the other hand, there are estimates that income tax fraud is in the order of 20%.

7. Poor families are poor because they have too many children
Most poor families have less than two children. Only 15% have 3 or more children under 18. Recent studies show children in poor families are more likely to suffer chronic health problems and twice as likely to drop out of school.

8. We cannot afford the social programs needed to eliminate poverty
According to per capita Gross Domestic Product (GDP), Canada is more prosperous than all European countries. However, Canada spends less on social security and other income support measures (including EI and welfare) as a share of GDP than most
http://www.waterlooregion.org/poverty/talk/5.html

Another liberal smoking too much weed. Where do you think much of our tax dollars go? Ever heard of our 'beloved' universal healthcare? Canada and Cuba are the only two nations that do not allow private health care of any kind. I would suggest our healthcare system is communistic in nature. This costs us staggering amounts of money.

Those stats you put up there are full of crap. Canada is one of the big spenders when it comes to our social programs. Why do you think we are not even wealthier than we are? What were all those years about with Liberal government after Liberal government running budget deficits? If we are so bloody wealthy and are capable of having the social programs you are whining for, why did we run budget deficits so many years? Why does Canada have a massive debt? How did we obtain this debt? We took tax dollars and set matches to them then suddenly went to other nations and said 'oopsy but we need to borrow some cash. Seems we used all of our cash for bonfires along Lake Ontario'? Please man! Think before you post such crap.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
The article misses a few points:

1. Immigrants not only use health care, but also pay taxes. So that breaks even. Due to low birth rates in Canada, immigration is really just replacing population for the most part, along with some slack to allow for stable populaiotn growth. Asd for pollution, well what's the difference if one destrys the O-zone from Sao Paulo or Toronto? Same effect. So instead of beggar0thy-neighbour policies, how about promoting ecological conservation world-wide. Now there's a thought.

Now on the other hand, I will acknowledge the author has a few points. He mentinned the schools need extra resources for newly arrived migrant children who don't know English. Fair enough. From that standpoint, it would be reasonable to require immigrants to toronto to pass an IELTS test with an expected minimum score so as to ensure they can speak English well. Those immigrants who don't know English will naturally "Ghettoize" into their language communities, and those are in fact in the large citise such as Toronto. If all migrants are required to know English before comming, however, then those who don't know English wouldn't come to Canada in the first place, and those who do would in fact be capable of functioning outside their ethnic communities, thus not feeling such a need to trap lock themselves up into their respective Toronto Ghettoes.

Call it English Canada's Bill 101 if you will, but I do agree Quebec has handled immigration much more effectively if for no other reason than that it did ensure, with some exceptions, that all immigrants to Quebec would in fact know the common language, which was French. As a result, they don't all conglomerate around Montreal. You'll find them in Quebec city and even in places as small as Charlevoix county. Because French is given preference, most immigrants come from France, Belgium, Switzerland and French Africa. Chinese are few because most Chinese couldn't cut it in a French environment. But those who could were welcome. Therefore, they likewise don't Ghettoize so much.

If English Canada had its own Bill 101 of sorts, it could do the same by taking in those who know English, thus mostly from Ireland, the US, and Commonwealth nations. If a Frenchman wants to immigrate to TO, then he'd better know English, simple as that. That would help with eliminating Ghettos in To and allow immigrant populations to spread a little more.

In the meantime, perhaps instead of complaining, those in TO could gtive of their time to teach English to new arrivals.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
I suppose another possibility would be to adopt a "local population policy". An example of such might be the following:

Priority for citizenship goes to those who, bisides meeting all other requirements, including a language proficiency test, can meet the followinng criteria.

1. Take up residence in a local comunity in which according to statistice fewer than nine people speak the same native language you do unless it's English or French of course.

2. Take up residence in a community in which according to statistics fewer that nine people share the same faith you do.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
3,197
22
38
Oshawa ON
Canada simply needs to get smart. There are millions of people who would love to come here. There's no shortage of folk who could help us in our so-called time of need. The problem remains that the majority of those coming don't: they are family reunification class. They're not the workers and skilled professionals the pro-immigration lobby likes to talk about. A good many of them will be dependent on our largesse without having paid a penny into the system. Last time I looked only 23% of new arrivals were economic migrants, meeting Canada's 'tough' immigration standards. It's a joke. How are we supposed to respect and promote a government bureaucracy that in most countries of the world would be viewed as criminal?