If Quebec is indivisable, then by their rhetoric, so is Canada?

[Zzarchov]

If the PQ are smart, of course they are going to claim Quebec isn't divisible.

As stated, this is just a bargaining position. They know they can't keep it, but if they claim they can't be divided, then its one more bargaining chip, a "free compromise".

ie.) "If they recognize they are divisible from the get go"
Federal Negotiator "We'll support your bid to join Nafta, in return you'll pay off your debt"

"If they keep saying they are not divisible"
PQ Negotiator "We really want to join NAFTA, so I guess we'll be forced..under protest..to give up the Innu Lands in exchange, but we'll be damned if we take a share of your debt!"


Or they could really be extra stupid. Who knows. It won't be a problem in another 20 or 30 years anyways.

 

[shannon]

Like the natives pose a treat to anyone? The only reason they are still around is out of pity and remorse.

Nonesnse. As I recall during the Oka crisis, the Natives were quite a handful for the Quebec provincial police and as a result, the armed forces were eventually called in. Even after the Canadian armed forces were called in, the armed standoff lasted for days.

Don't underestimate the Natives. They have a right to their land, as they were here before any of us.

 

[Numure]

Nonesnse. As I recall during the Oka crisis, the Natives were quite a handful for the Quebec provincial police and as a result, the armed forces were eventually called in. Even after the Canadian armed forces were called in, the armed standoff lasted for days.

Don't underestimate the Natives. They have a right to their land, as they were here before any of us.

No internationnal law gives them any right to their land. I'll base myself off that. The only reason the Oka Crisis was a problem, is because we're too nice to go in killing everyone. Problem would of been solved.

 

[Sparrow]

If Quebec is indivisable, they by their rhetoric, so is Canada

No internationnal law gives them any right to their land. I'll base myself off that. The only reason the Oka Crisis was a problem, is because we're too nice to go in killing everyone. Problem would of been solved.

You said it "their land" who gave you more right to "their land". If they have no right to their land neither do you because this land is CANADA. Your above remark is really "basse classe" and really does not help your position. The town I live in is Native land and I believe that it will remain in Canada and then we can sit back and smile at the slit of land that Quebec becomes. You are a prime example of why an independent Quebec will never work.

I would like to excuse myself to the other members of this thread for ranting but I have had it.

 

[Numure]

You said it "their land" who gave you more right to "their land". If they have no right to their land neither do you because this land is CANADA. Your above remark is really "basse classe" and really does not help your position. The town I live in is Native land and I believe that it will remain in Canada and then we can sit back and smile at the slit of land that Quebec becomes. You are a prime example of why an independent Quebec will never work.

I would like to excuse myself to the other members of this thread for ranting but I have had it.

Where does it state, it's their land? I mean, there must be some internationnal treaty somewhere that recognises Native Land CLAIMS? Alas, guess your dreaming there bud.

 

[Sparrow]

If Quebec is indivisable, they by their rhetroic, so is Canada

Where does it state, it's their land? I mean, there must be some internationnal treaty somewhere that recognises Native Land CLAIMS? Alas, guess your dreaming there bud.

Maybe you should read the "Traitè de Paris 1763" this is an international treaty giving England claim to Quebe and a few other places. What about you respecting this treaty?
http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/amnord/cndtraite_Paris_1763.htm

This treaty make Quebec part of Canada and at the time of the treaty guarantees were given to those who did not want to stay could leave without any interference from the British.

If Quebec separated today it would be very small because not all the land in its so called borders belong to Quebec. For instance Ruperts Land, was loaned to Quebec for hunting and using as a passage to Hudson Bay but it still remain Federal land. All the provinces in Canada got the land north of their provinces on loan but they were never given outright to the provinces. You want us to look back in history for ownership of this land but only at the part that favors you. Native Lands are treaty lands and have a right to decide for themselves if the wish to stay in Canada. What about areas that have voted against separations will they be allowed to seperate from Quebec or held against their will. You say we should respect your will, what about the will of all those who voted against separation. You keep asking us again and again, we still give the same answer NO. Instead of trying to destroy this beautiful province together we can build the best in the country. It won't be easy but together there is nothing we cannot accomplish.

 

[CDNBear]

CDNBear I have an idea, Lets get the seperatists on one side and the Native people on the other. Last side standing gets to keep Quebec.

I like this idea. i wonder if Colonel Custers last stand rings any bells in the Quebecuois's heads.

And we all know the natives will end up burning each others houses down, sniffing coke, drunk 99% of the time, or dealing drugs. Ahh., the native life. All that living on the hard earned money of the average taxpayer.

I want you to keep that thought, I want you to spread that thought, keep pouring your hatred in to your fellow Quebecuois, recruit more and sell them, the same line. Please, keep that mind set.

So what you are saying CDN Bear is that you support open insurgency against us??? Thus spitting on a democratic separation based on negotiations. Now thats really «canadian»...

Umm, no. The Quebecuois will force Native territories to seperate with them. We have said we do not want to. They don't care. So if they force us, we will fight back. In the end, the Cree will sell Hydro to, what is left of Quebec, from their James Bay Hydro facility. And the port access fees that the Mohawk charge, will likely be just as steep.

Fight the same way as talibans, but then again, you are rooting for our forces overthere right?

Probably, only we'll likely be worse. Have you heard the rhetoric of the MWS?

Its funny that you get mad (with reason) when you read someone writting negative racial pregudices against the natives but then after you procede by claiming all french canadians are racist and nazis. It goes both ways buddy. All that talk about us hating the natives and wanting to take the reserves is stupid. I saw on tv the other day white folks in Ontario screaming things like « what about my white tribe?» and «white power» in regards of the situation in Caledonia...Oh ya, much more civilized than us nazi francophones. If we are so bad, explain why in the Quebec parliament, we have the only memorial to natives in all the parliaments in Canada?

I don't get angry, I love the stupid shyte Manure, puppet 7 and JohnsMuffy, say. It only proves that the Quebecuois are bigotted racists. That only helps us. Why would that anger me? It isn't true and I'm self secure enough to know it, so no effects here.

And then you go about coming here with tanks, and destroying our homes and all. If i'm not mistaken, your mother is francophone. If so, you show soooo much respect for her and her origins.

As a last resort, if the Quebecuois separate, and try to force us to follow suit, we will have no other choice to react. There is no way we want to live under Quebecuois rule. As it is, Quebec has a terrible record on Native issues. Do you think that will change when they no longer have to abide by Commonwealth treaties?
My Mom, is FRENCH CANADIAN. She is not a separatist and feels the Quebecuois do all French Canadians across the country, a disservice. The Natives do not want to destroy anything, they want their voices heard in Quebec, but Quebec already knows their answer, so they won't ask to hear us.

And finally, since you hate us so much, why do you have the Vandoos ( Royal 22ieme Régiment) coat of arms as your avatar???

Because ironicaly, I served in the 22nd. It was the first available post in the Airborne and I took it. Because that was how I wished to serve Canada. I also have it tatoo'ed on my arm, as well as the my clan symbol, my boys names and the creed of the 1st Special Service Force, the Devil's Brigade and a Maple Leaf.

hmm, I dont think Bear hates francophones (sp?) I think he is just passionante. Much like that other asshat up there who said all natives are a bunch of drug dealing drunks.

My frustration with que and our goverment is that neither side seems to want to find a solution. The government wants everythign there was and que's response is "well fine I am leaving" . Both are acting like small children as far as I am concerned.

You would be most right Nikki, but it isn't just a passion. I genuinly fear for my brothers under Quebecuois rule. It's not like Quebec has a great track record, when it comes to us.

 

[CDNBear]

Nonesnse. As I recall during the Oka crisis, the Natives were quite a handful for the Quebec provincial police and as a result, the armed forces were eventually called in. Even after the Canadian armed forces were called in, the armed standoff lasted for days.

Don't underestimate the Natives. They have a right to their land, as they were here before any of us.

You would be recallecting well there Shanon.

No internationnal law gives them any right to their land. I'll base myself off that. The only reason the Oka Crisis was a problem, is because we're too nice to go in killing everyone. Problem would of been solved.

You'ld be on a shaky base manure...
"In some cases land titles have been guaranteed in
international documents called treaties. Nation states today have
asserted that the treaties that they have signed with Indian
peoples are something less than real treaties. Under
international law, from any reasonable standard, the treaties are
valid international documents."
http://www.cwis.org/fwdp/Americas/intrnlaw.txt
You may wanna brush up on international law.

Where does it state, it's their land? I mean, there must be some internationnal treaty somewhere that recognises Native Land CLAIMS? Alas, guess your dreaming there bud.

How many treaties do I need to post, to get through your racism?

All Treaties signed by Soveriegn Governements are Internationally recognisable, legally binding law.

You may wann a wake up from your dream hunny. You are lost in la la land.

 

[Sassylassie]

Does the racism ever get to be to much for you Bear? It really plucking pisses me off the extent I often stay out of Native Topics because I know I'll lose my temper and that can get ugly.

 

[CDNBear]

Does the racism ever get to be to much for you Bear? It really plucking pisses me off the extent I often stay out of Native Topics because I know I'll lose my temper and that can get ugly.

It did when I was a kid and the wife of the Commissionaire of the local detatchment of the QPP would spray paint racist things on the back of our bus. Things that just proved how monumentally moronic she was. Things like "Priare nigger express". I'm not sure how we Arboreol forest dewellers fit in to a praire vision, but to the morons of the world, reality, facts and logic are lost.

My Grand Mother taught me to let them say what they wanted, and followed that up with...

"It is better to be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

Besides, I really want manure to keep that train of thought. Remember what I have said in the past about know ones enemy Sass?

Not to mention Sass, if nobody knows the difference between "Quebecois" and "Quebecuois", it might appear that I too am a tad racist.

 

[General James Wolfe]

If Qubec is indivisible then so is Canada.


Quebec has no rights to succede becasue like it or not Quebec belongs to the Anglophones and the First Nations and not the Francophones. The Anglophones captured Quebec fair and square. In my oppion the Anglophone Canadians and the First Nations have been to tollerant with the Quebecois crybabies. Time for Anglo-Canadians to spank the bottoms of the Franco-Quebecois to put them in their place. The Royal Canadian Armed Forces will crush any attempt by the PQ terrorists to succed from Canada by UDI.





TIME FOR CANADA TO SPANK AND SEND TO BED THE QUEBECOIS WITH OUT ANY DESERT.

 

[CDNBear]

It is commentary like this...
"The extent to which we all fail to live lives of holiness is in part due to the ongoing effects of original sin and the failure of the church community to guard us from the sin of the world."
Posted by m_levesque.

That worry me about a soveriegn Quebec. If people like this run a country, how free will it actually be?

 

[m_levesque]

It is commentary like this...
"The extent to which we all fail to live lives of holiness is in part due to the ongoing effects of original sin and the failure of the church community to guard us from the sin of the world."
Posted by m_levesque.

That worry me about a soveriegn Quebec. If people like this run a country, how free will it actually be?

How dare you pull pieces from another thread into this one to justify your whining!

 

[Mr.Roboto]

Umm, no. The Quebecuois will force Native territories to seperate with them. We have said we do not want to. They don't care. So if they force us, we will fight back. In the end, the Cree will sell Hydro to, what is left of Quebec, from their James Bay Hydro facility. And the port access fees that the Mohawk charge, will likely be just as steep.

Thats why theres going to be negotiations if it where to take place. You think we will take the natives at gun point to accept separation? Come on, be real!

On the other hand, one of the most vocal separatist I knew in my life up to now was a HURON...a traitor I guess

Because ironicaly, I served in the 22nd. It was the first available post in the Airborne and I took it. Because that was how I wished to serve Canada. I also have it tatoo'ed on my arm, as well as the my clan symbol, my boys names and the creed of the 1st Special Service Force, the Devil's Brigade and a Maple Leaf.

So, was it so terrible being amougst us???

I don't get angry, I love the stupid shyte Manure, puppet 7 and JohnsMuffy, say. It only proves that the Quebecuois are bigotted racists. That only helps us. Why would that anger me? It isn't true and I'm self secure enough to know it, so no effects here.

I'm not racist...so your wrong

As a last resort, if the Quebecuois separate, and try to force us to follow suit, we will have no other choice to react. There is no way we want to live under Quebecuois rule. As it is, Quebec has a terrible record on Native issues. Do you think that will change when they no longer have to abide by Commonwealth treaties?
My Mom, is FRENCH CANADIAN. She is not a separatist and feels the Quebecuois do all French Canadians across the country, a disservice. The Natives do not want to destroy anything, they want their voices heard in Quebec, but Quebec already knows their answer, so they won't ask to hear us.

Our record is not any worse than in other provinces. I'm not saying everything here is great in regards of province/natives relations, but you should really take a look at some threads on this very site, and read some of the comments from some people from the anglo provinces...not very fun loving. And like I stated, Caledonia is no picnic neither.«White Power» and « What about our White tribe???», what are your comments on those kind of quotes from ontarians?

 

[Sparrow]

If Quebec is indivisable, then by their rhetoric, so is Canada

Where does it state, it's their land? I mean, there must be some internationnal treaty somewhere that recognises Native Land CLAIMS? Alas, guess your dreaming there bud.

Where does it state that it is your land? By the way have you ever read the "Traité de Paris 1763" here is the site: www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/amnord/cndtraite_Paris_1763.htm
Nobody took this land from anybody, it was given away.

Also don't forget all the land in the north known as Rupert's land was never given to the province by the Fed. Gouv. The province was given permission to use the land as a passage to Hudson Bay, trading, hunting and fishing. The other provinces got the same deal. So image Quebec first of all without its north and then without the Native lands. PETIT PETIT

Look at what is happening in Quebec city with the Huron Nation, are you supprised! They have papers to prove their claim, what do you think of that! Also what about all those who voted against separation will we be harrassed with the same question over and over again? You want us to respect you right to separate but you never respect our right not to separate. Where is the fairness in that?

 

[Dalreg]

Waa Waa Waa, I'm from Quebec, I want my cake and I want to eat it too!ukeright:

 

[CDNBear]

How dare you pull pieces from another thread into this one to justify your whining!

You and the rest of your racist ilk would be the experts on whining.

Thats why theres going to be negotiations if it where to take place. You think we will take the natives at gun point to accept separation? Come on, be real!

I am real, I just saw myself in the mirror. I don't trust them, period.

On the other hand, one of the most vocal separatist I knew in my life up to now was a HURON...a traitor I guess

I'm supposed to take your word for that am I? What did I just say about that.

So, was it so terrible being amougst us???

No, not all of you. But apparently, it is just unacceptable being among Canadians though eh? I'm as proud of my French hertiage as I am of my English and Native.

I'm not racist...so your wrong

I didn't say you were. Unless of course you are Quebecuois. They're racist. The Quebecois are just French Canadians with an inferiority complex.

Our record is not any worse than in other provinces. I'm not saying everything here is great in regards of province/natives relations, but you should really take a look at some threads on this very site, and read some of the comments from some people from the anglo provinces...not very fun loving. And like I stated, Caledonia is no picnic neither.«White Power» and « What about our White tribe???», what are your comments on those kind of quotes from ontarians?

I think they can go back to England or where ever, anytime they want. I never said that any of the other provines were innocent. But a soveriegn Quebec is a scary thing, Just a sovereign Alberta would be to Native Peoples.

 

[s_lone]

The Quebecois are just French Canadians with an inferiority complex.


But a soveriegn Quebec is a scary thing.

You speak for yourself CDNbear. YOU are afraid of a sovereign Quebec. Many are not including myself and many other Québecois. Even a good amount of ROCers, while being federalist, are not afraid of a sovereign Quebec because they are not foolish enough to listen to the federalist fear tactics. They know the population of Quebec is not a bunch of extremist fools. We believe in justice, democracy, solidarity and equality. Really there isn't much that is scary about a sovereign Quebec. Perhaps a sovereign Quebec would not be for the best, but WE WOULD DO FINE.

I'm only afraid of people who want to resort to violence to obtain what they want, be they Canadian, Native or Québecois.

That being said, I'm ashamed by the comments of Numure and M.Levesque concerning the Natives in the current threads on Quebec. They are not doing a very good favor to themselves and to the independence cause in Quebec. This kind of attitude has slowed down the movement terribly and in a way, they are doing the federalists a favor.

 

[Sassylassie]

You speak for yourself CDNbear. YOU are afraid of a sovereign Quebec. Many are not including myself and many other Québecois. Even a good amount of ROCers, while being federalist, are not afraid of a sovereign Quebec because they are not foolish enough to listen to the federalist fear tactics. They know the population of Quebec is not a bunch of extremist fools. We believe in justice, democracy, solidarity and equality. Really there isn't much that is scary about a sovereign Quebec. Perhaps a sovereign Quebec would not be for the best, but WE WOULD DO FINE.

I'm only afraid of people who want to resort to violence to obtain what they want, be they Canadian, Native or Québecois.

That being said, I'm ashamed by the comments of Numure and M.Levesque concerning the Natives in the current threads on Quebec. They are not doing a very good favor to themselves and to the independence cause in Quebec. This kind of attitude has slowed down the movement terribly and in a way, they are doing the federalists a favor.

S-lone I must say for a seperatist you are intelligent, witty, wise and frankly if you are the new face of Seperatist there is hope for Quebec if it desires to leave Canada. May I ask how you'd like to see Quebec seperate from Canada?

 

[s_lone]

S-lone I must say for a seperatist you are intelligent, witty, wise and frankly if you are the new face of Seperatist there is hope for Quebec if it desires to leave Canada. May I ask how you'd like to see Quebec seperate from Canada?

Sassy this is a very hard question to ask me as I am quite split on the subject of seperation. But I will try to state clearly my current opinion on the subject (my opinion changes with time... which is why I am a soft-seperatist. I am a potential YES voter, but also a potential NO voter. I am not brain-washed by either side.)

First of all I must insist on the fact that Canada truly is a great country to live in. Without a doubt as a Canadian I am among the most privileged on this planet. Obviously, I feel the same way about Quebec. I often say that my heart is Québecois but my mind Canadian. To me, Canada represents something BETTER than a country. The ideal Canadian project for me is one of unification of independant political and national entities, not one of politcal homogeneization. This is why I am a ferocious supporter of decentralization. I strongly believe EVERY province in Canada should roll up their sleeves and stop pulling on Mommy Ottawa's sleeve to get a candy. Further more, every province has different needs and socio-cultural characteristics; I don't think it is realist to expect Ottawa to succesfully manage a truly equal and just sharing of funds and ressources. I would much prefer see the bulk of my taxes go to the Quebec government, which will actually use that money for where I live.

Money sent to Ottawa must NOT go back to the provinces financially (except maybe in a natural disaster scenario). Sending money to Ottawa so it can then re-transfer that money to the provinces is just incoherent to me. A terrible waste of time if you ask me. Bureaucracy at its worst. I believe provinces should only give to Ottawa, not receive. Money sent to Ottawa should only serve purposes that are universal for all Canadians such as defence and helping people in crisis and disasters.

So there you go, I'm a fierce defender of my province's right to manage its own business and its own money. I don't want to receive money from Ottawa. But I do want to contribute to Canada. The problem is that most Canadians tend to have a very different view of their ideal Canada. A view in which Ottawa's authority is sacred. A view that I totally respect but to which I'm not quite comfortable with. This is where I become a potential YES voter. If Canada refuses to let Quebec, my home, manage its business, I might get 'fed' up (get it? ) and decide it might be worth it to try going on our own.

This being said, I'm not interested in a country of Quebec in which we would keep on living in the 20th century. If we do that, we might as well stay in Canada and all stagnate together as Canadians. No if Quebec becomes a country, I would expect SERIOUS and SIGNIFICANT changes. I'm not interested in seperation to satisfy an ego trip (which unfortunately animates many seperatists). I want a green Quebec. I also want a Quebec that is aware of the impacts of its consuming habits on the rest of the world. Canada and the United States have terrible consuming habits and we need drastic change. So if Quebec seperates, it better be for that type of change.

I can tell you one thing, people my age (I'm 25) tend to be quite supportive of independance and I feel my generation is not being represented in most of the polls. What I am saying is that Quebec's youth could very well determine the outcome of the next referendum if there is one. But if the seperatists want to get our votes they will have to present us a vision of a truly modern Quebec, not just a sovereign 20th century-type Quebec.