I Hate to Say I Told You So

[Reverend Blair]

The audit into David Dingwall's expenses was released today. Dingwall was exonerated. He was within all guidelines, and he never charged that famous pack of gum on his expense account even though it may have been within the guidelines if he had. The only thing found to be abnormal was a clerical error that caused him to get $4,000 too much on his car allowance, which he will repay.

I saw Harper on TV stammering and trying to change the subject. When the questions continued he tried to claim that most of the questions had been about the severance package. That's not true and everybody who watches Question Period or listened to the Conservative monkeys yammering in the press knows it.

That yammering is going to allow Dingwall to claim he had no choice to resign because of the false accusations being made against him, and he'll get a sizable payout as a result.

It will most likely cause the press and the public to ignore Dingwall breaking the rules when he was lobbying too, so we lose twice.

Now I know I pointed all this out before. I said that the Liberals looked smug and knew this was going to play their way. I said that the real issues were once again being ignored by scandal mongering. I said we should wait for facts.

Now I just want say I TOLD YOU SO!

 

[Senathos]

RE: I Hate to Say I Told

From what I can gather of watching Question Period, the Conservatives did not want Dingwall to get a severance package because of the questionable expenses, they did not try to lead the audit on to conclusions, that would not have been allowed as a question. I think your hating of the Conservatives has overruled your judgement here (I am a Liberal and knew what they were saying...). As McCallum put it repeatedly, Dingwall would be audited and any errors would be forced to be paid back... and they will only give him the severance of which he is entitled to. They (Conservatives) didn't want him getting a severance at all because of questionable expenses.

 

[Hank C Cheyenne]

From what I can gather of watching Question Period, the Conservatives did not want Dingwall to get a severance package because of the questionable expenses, they did not try to lead the audit on to conclusions, that would not have been allowed as a question. I think your hating of the Conservatives has overruled your judgement here (I am a Liberal and knew what they were saying...). As McCallum put it repeatedly, Dingwall would be audited and any errors would be forced to be paid back... and they will only give him the severance of which he is entitled to. They (Conservatives) didn't want him getting a severance at all because of questionable expenses.

......well put

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: I Hate to Say I Told

The majority of questions by the Conservatives in the house were the usual scandal mongering. When Dingwall met with the committee, the Conservatives were again scandal mongering. Dingwall made them look foolish as a result. it wasn't that they were trying to lead the audit on, it was they were grandstanding foolishly instead of using the Dingwall affair to address policy issues, Senathos.

It's the same thing they have done time and again and it keeps biting them on the ass and never makes anything better.

If the Conservatives would have demanded an audit in the House and shut the hell up in the press, Dingwall wouldn't have quit and we wouldn't owe him money for doing nothing. If there had been wrongdoing, he could have been fired with cause.

Not only that, but by most accounts Dingwall was actually doing a good job at the Mint. Now we've either lost him or we'll have to pay him extra to come back. I can just see that happening.

Through all of this, the Conservatives have not offered any policy alternatives or even attempted to discuss policy, Senathos. As an official opposition, they are a bad joke.

 

[TenPenny]

Now I'd like to see Harper and Mackay's expenses, please.

In detail.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

rev:

I Hate to Say I Told You So

no,ya don't.. :wink:

 

[mrmom2]

That may be the case here Rev but the Libs have done nothing but lose and steal money since they were elected :evil: Bunch of fecking lying thieves they all should be shot and pissed on

 

[Reverend Blair]

Now I'd like to see Harper and Mackay's expenses, please.

In detail.

Me too. Maybe we can request something under freedom of information?

rev:
Quote:
I Hate to Say I Told You So



no,ya don't..

That's true. I've actually been waiting because I saw the smug look on the Liberals faces and knew they were coming out of this one way ahead. Just wait...they'll have a way to blame it on Mulroney yet too. ;-)

That may be the case here Rev but the Libs have done nothing but lose and steal money since they were elected Evil or Very Mad Bunch of fecking lying thieves they all should be shot and pissed on

Which is part of the reason I get so pissed off at the Conservatives. As the official opposition they are the ones with access to the press, the most questions in Question Period, and the power to do something about it. They don't though. Instead they scandal monger and play cheap partisan games for cheap partisan points.

All they really want is their turn at the trough. They have no interest in real change.

 

[no1important]

RE: I Hate to Say I Told

I think though even though this fellow has been cleared, we are at a crossroads in Canadian politics and we really need a new government, not the same old liberals or conservatives but a radical change, like people should vote in Layton and see how he makes out. The NDP deserve a chance federally, plus theywould not be any worse. I just wish more people would vote for them instead of liberals, just to keep cons out.

 

[LeftCoast]

Re: RE: I Hate to Say I Told

I think though even though this fellow has been cleared, we are at a crossroads in Canadian politics and we really need a new government, not the same old liberals or conservatives but a radical change, like people should vote in Layton and see how he makes out. The NDP deserve a chance federally, plus theywould not be any worse. I just wish more people would vote for them instead of liberals, just to keep cons out.

That's what we (not me) thought in BC after 25 years of Social Credit - and so they elected ..... Dave Barret and the NDP in 1972 who put the province through 4 years of hell.

25 years later .... with the Social Credit party scandal ridden and in tatters after Vanderzalm, we (they) once again gave the NDP a chance. Once again the NDP ran the province into the ground. Four years later, Glen Clark lied about a balanced budget and got the NDP reelected.

The NDP when in power has had its share of scandals. Bingogate and Glen Clarks influence peddling for home renovations etc. But the worst of the NDP is the shear incompetance.

 

[yballa09]

Can't say the NDP did much at the provincial level with Clark, they fecked up our province pretty good. But at a federal level i can understand where you're coming from. I'd still rather see the Conservatives in power over the libs or NDP, but only when they get rid of Harper.

 

[missile]

On the federal level,I wouldn't vote NDP..because of the way they operated in BC and Ontario. Provincially,I do vote for them because they haven't a chance of being the party in power Mr. Dingwell actually turned a sizeable profit for the Mint during his shortened tenure. Strange,isn't it? The ex head of Canada Post also made that into a profitable institution and he ,too, was terminated.It's almost as if making a profit for a government agency is a crime unto itself.

 

[Reverend Blair]

On the federal level,I wouldn't vote NDP..because of the way they operated in BC and Ontario.

I keep hearing that. How about the excellent job they have done in Manitoba and Saskatchewan? Both economies are in far better shape than they were under Conservative governments. Saskatchewan is a have province now, and was headed that way, albeit more slowly, even before oil prices skyrocketed.

Manitoba and Saskatchewan are hard economies to make headway in, especially during this era of low prices for wheat and one agricultural crisis after another.

It's also worth mentioning that the courts found that was no influence peddling for home repairs (a deck) in BC.

In Ontario, it's notable that the "leader of the NDP" had come from the Liberal Party and is now rumoured to be a frontrunner in the next federal Liberal leadership race. If he wins that race, he is not expected to take the party to the left.

Furthermore, if you want to talk about mismanagement and scandals in provinces, the Conservatives and Liberals have track records at least as questionable as the NDP.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

I've not fully educated myself on the disastrous Clark and Rae governments, so I may be way off here, but it seems to me that these cats ran under an NDP ticket, and after they were elected, through the tenets of social democracy out the feckin' window...

 

[MMMike]

Re: RE: I Hate to Say I Told

Not only that, but by most accounts Dingwall was actually doing a good job at the Mint. Now we've either lost him or we'll have to pay him extra to come back. I can just see that happening.

:lol: You've gotta be kidding me, right!? The Mint has a liscence to print money (literally), how can they not make a profit!? :wink:

 

[Reverend Blair]

You've gotta be kidding me, right!? The Mint has a liscence to print money (literally), how can they not make a profit!?

Try again, MMMikey.

I've not fully educated myself on the disastrous Clark and Rae governments, so I may be way off here, but it seems to me that these cats ran under an NDP ticket, and after they were elected, through the tenets of social democracy out the feckin' window.

Rae certainly did. He screwed the unions and spent like mad. Something the Liberals and Conservatives don't like to talk about is that Tommy Douglas never ran a deficit when he was premier of Saskatchewan. Fiscal responsibility has always been part of social democracy.

Douglas also built roads, introduced medicare, and introduced many programs that actually helped the people. He did so in a poor province with limited funding and a small population. When Conservatives and Liberals say that we can't afford things, what they really mean is that they don't want to afford things unless they can profit from them.

Oddly enough, the federal NDP have been saying how they will pay for programs in their platform for far longer than either the Liberals or Conservatives have.

 

[MMMike]

I actually agree with you for once Rev. I thought from the start that this issue was b.s.. I think not only the oppostion parties but the media jumped on this as a big scandal without even looking at the facts. Thats the political system we work in - nothing of substance is ever discussed by anybody, its all just superficial soundbites and jumping on any issue that will get the party some political mileage. But I disgres....

One of the main reasons the public got pissed was because the concept of these 'crown corporations' is flawed. Is it a business or is it government? The government should shed itself of all crown corporations and we wont have this mess to begin with. We'll just have our run of the mill government corruption and the businesses can do whatever they want - they would be beholden only to their shareholders (who are much more demanding than the voting public).

 

[Karlin]

What started out as a question about

"Was it just scandal mongering as a way to avoid the tough issues?"

became

"On the federal level,I wouldn't vote NDP..because of the way they operated in BC and Ontario. Provincially,I do vote for them"

At which point I jump in with:
Ya, it was just scandaling to avoid using our parliament to discuss important issues, here are a few that should usurp Dingwall's scandal:
- softwood retaliation, should we abandon NAFTA[and the USA?]?
-marijuana laws
- what to do about those torture charges against Americans coming to visit our leaders? If we let it slide we are perps too/"all EVIL needs is for good men to do nothing"
- global warming initiatives are coming slowly, too slowy in the face of the changes seen around us now, we must act urgently even if it is largely symbolic compared to the USA's pollution.
-

Note- all of these are USA related... Our Parliament needs to get on these issues where America is concerned and really hammer out some proposals. The urgency in this is obvious to me, much much more than CHEWING GUM and the continued scandalous spending habits of our Liberals.

Okay, so back to forum flow,that quote above -
I say that is no reason not to vote Federal NDP, they are NOT the same parties as the provincial NDP.
It IS the actual leaders, the individuals in the party that will determine its success as a government "for the people".

Layton is disapointing me in the lack of "getting his message out to the public".
But the Federal NDP is offering Canadians SOLUTIONS Afor all these big issues I mentioned above. Initiatives, NOT scandals.

Really, after what the Liberals did to us [sponsorship], if we let them back in it will just be crazyness since they now KNOW they WILL get away with it.
And if those CPC conservatives look appealing to you... Is anyone even arguing for them at all anymore? Harper would increase military and oil use, increase the disparity between rich and poor, privatise medicare, just give it all over to the Corporate side and be a super-brownoser to Bush America Co.

Which leaves us with independants or the NDP.
Choice by elimination is not the only reason to vote FedNDP either, they have initiatives and solutions for the biggest issues. I like em.

Flow forum, flow!

Karlin

 

[Reverend Blair]

"Was it just scandal mongering as a way to avoid the tough issues?"

There isn't a lot of difference between the Conservatives and the Liberals on most non-social issues. The Conservatives tend to be more extreme, but the general direction is the same.

Where the two parties do differ, like pot laws and Kyoto, the Conservatives have taken a position that is unpopular with most Canadians.

That leaves the Conservatives without a lot of real questions to ask. It was less a way to avoid the tough questions than an attempt to avoid revealing that the Conservatives have nothing to offer.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

We'll just have our run of the mill government corruption and the businesses can do whatever they want - they would be beholden only to their shareholders (who are much more demanding than the voting public).

Yeah...demanding that profits be maximized, whatever the cost... :roll: