How do so many morons get driver's licences?

[MMMike]

Re: RE: How do so many morons get driver's licences?

JomZ,
i didn't find toronto all that bad once you learned that "posted limit + 20" is the expected on the major-major roadways.

It is true. On the 400 series highways the speed limit is a suggestion. When we drive to northern Ontario we average about 130K...not unusual to see 140. But in our defense these are huge highways and we wouldn't do that on a two lane road. 2 lane roads are mostly 80km speed limits, but everyone does 100.

Ontarians just don't like to be told what to do or how fast to do it!

The posted speed limits on the 400 series highways are a joke. In clear, dry conditions 140 may not be too fast, depending on traffic. There should be no speed limit at all. The little old lady doing 80 or 90 is a hazard on the road if the average speed is 120 or more. Trying to enforce an artificially low speed limit simply invites disdain for the law and the police.

 

[Jay]

When my friend and I drove through upper state New York, we immediately noticed that the posted speed limit was the limit, and they mean that sh*t down there. I was really surprised by the lack of speeders on the Interstate 90.

 

[the caracal kid]

Jay,

that reminds me of a funny "oh shit" story.

a friend and I were on a trip in the US and happily doing double the speed limit (110 MPH) since the highway was suited to it and was pretty much barren of vehicles. I glanced in the rear view mirror, and a car was coming up quickly out on us and within a short time period he flew past us (i have no idea how fast he was going). About 3-5 minutes later we went under an overpass and saw a state patrol car driving across the median and thought "oh shit" so i slowed down. The cop pulled onto our side of the highway and took off past us (presumably after the other speeder). We never saw the cruiser or the other car again!

P.S. i really liked your 400 when i was out there. Nice place to really let a car reach its limits, if you know what i mean :wink-wink:

 

[Andygal]

RE: How do so many morons

My dad has a bad habit of speeding when in a rush. I keep telling him that if he gets a ticket he'll be even later then he would be if he just stuck to the limit. All that paperwork and stuff can take a while, you are better to just slow down and not get a ticket.

Although he tells me that you can usually get away with going a little over the limit unless conditions are really terrible in which case you might get nailed even if you are under the limit for dangerous driving depending on how fast you are going. I dunno how true this is, I don't have a liscense myself (can't see well enough to get one)

 

[#juan]

There is one other possibility

The morons quite possibly drive differently for the tester than they do when left to their own devices on the road. Protective colouring? I am always amazed when I'm driving in fog as fast as my conscience will allow and some "moron" will pass me and dissappear into the distance. I have very good eyesight with my glasses and I know these people are overdriving their vision. Every year we read of people who kill themselves and others doing just that. Darwin's rules weed out a lot of them. It is a pity that they usually take innocent people along with them.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

I must admit that I routinely go above the speed limit. Not because I'm a reckless driver or that I'm just out there to go fast, it's just that the speed limits are posted too low.

Before you skewer me, let me explain.

I've noticed in my many years of driving that about, say, 75% of the drivers here go approx 10km over the speed limit. 10% go the speed limit or lower while 15% are 10km or above. This is from personal ovservation... not fact. I have a coworker here that swears by the law, hates tailgators and laughs at those who speed by him only to catch up to them because of a traffic light. Yet, when we go out for lunch and he's driving I regularly notice that he's doin' 65 in a 50 zone, 50 in a 30 zone... and we're getting tailgated while the traffic ahead of us is pulling away. Go figure.

I've noticed many law-abiding drivers who are *oblivious* to the traffic around them. For example, on hwy 1 going from Vancouver to the Port Mann Bridge, I can guarantee that you will run into one of these people blocking traffic. This hwy is 6 lanes wide, 2 lanes dedicated for carpool and transit. That leaves 2 lanes for general use each direction...guess where these drivers are? Yeah, in the left lane. Guess how many cars are 100 meters infront of them? None. Guess how many cars are 100 feet behind them?... nearly everyone trying to pass. Some drivers are so pissed off that they take risks trying to pass. Unfortunately, sometimes they get into an accident and you hear it's "speed related" when the underlying cause is the slow driver.

then I head down to Seattle to visit some friends. Wow, speed limits are much faster... is it because the Americans are better drivers? Hell yeah! 8O When I approach a slower driver in the left lane, they magically pull over! WTF? Hey, I see a driver coming up behind me, I'll just pull over and let them pass. Hey! this is fun... What's this karma I'm experiencing? :roll: And hey! They got road signs for you well ahead of the exit... not like here where the road sign to tell you where you need to go is posted pretty much where you need to exit.

My point is, just because a person is driving fast doesn't make them a moron. They're probably thinking you're a moron for driving so slow and holding up traffic. All you have to do to help stop road rage is to pull over if your driving slower than the "flow of traffic". Simple! If you got a tailgator, why not pull over? You can still pull over on the shoulder if it is a single lane road. If you got a two lane road that merges into a one lane road and you got somebody beside you who is slightly infront... why are you speeding up?

As a final note, speed has nothing to do with anything except cops. I have never seen anyone who was following the flow of traffic (which might be higher than the speed limit) and get singled out for a speeding ticket. If you are going down a hwy at 100 when the speed limit was 90, is that automatically considered dangerous? If the speed limit got raised to 100, is it still dangerous now? Dangerous is when the driver is driving above their comfort level... not due to speed limits.

Holy cow! I wrote another essay. :roll:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

My point is, just because a person is driving fast doesn't make them a moron.

Agreed. Driving too fast for conditions, like doing 120 in a fog that limits visibility to 50 meters, makes them morons.

As a final note, speed has nothing to do with anything except cops.

No, that's not right. Highways are designed for a certain speed, so the slopes and curves are such that you can negotiate them safely, and the signs are placed so that you have time to respond to them if you need to.

If you are going down a hwy at 100 when the speed limit was 90, is that automatically considered dangerous? If the speed limit got raised to 100, is it still dangerous now?

No, and no. Safe speed depends on the nature of the road and the conditions; see above.

Dangerous is when the driver is driving above their comfort level... not due to speed limits.

Don't think that's right either. People's "comfort levels" (not really sure what you mean by that) are illusory. A modern vehicle really isolates you from the world outside it. It's quiet and smooth, you're unlikely to have much sense of how fast you're actually going, until you have to suddenly stop.

And just as an aside, where I live, pulling off to the shoulder to let a faster driver go by will get you a ticket. Shoulders aren't designed to be driven on at highway speeds.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Agreed. Driving too fast for conditions, like doing 120 in a fog that limits visibility to 50 meters, makes them morons.

I won't argue that one.

No, that's not right. Highways are designed for a certain speed, so the slopes and curves are such that you can negotiate them safely, and the signs are placed so that you have time to respond to them if you need to.

So I guess Americans and Europeans can "negotiate" them more safely than us Canucks because last time I checked, they had higher speed limits and probably experience worse conditions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit#Canada

Safe speed depends on the nature of the road and the conditions;

Hey, just because you can't handle it doesn't mean the next guy can't either. :roll: And just because the speed you think is safe may not be safe for the next guy either... and he may be thinking you're the moron for passing him.

And just as an aside, where I live, pulling off to the shoulder to let a faster driver go by will get you a ticket. Shoulders aren't designed to be driven on at highway speeds.

Highways usually are two lanes or greater each way. So in that case, all you'd have to do is stay in the right lane and let the other person pass on the left. In the case of a 2 lane road (one going each way), you certainly wouldn't be driving highway speeds, so you can legally pull over while slowing down and signalling as well... and then pull back in when it is safe to do so. If you pull over without signalling or slowing down, then you're just asking for trouble.

As you can see, there are varied opinions on what a safe speed is. Some can argue that current limits are still too high based on the number of accidents on a road in a given year. So now we have to drive even slower?

 

[TenPenny]

Out here in the woods of NB, on 4 lane highways the limit is 110; the accepted norm is 120-125.

Back in December, I came over a knoll on a 2 lane hwy, 90 zone, doing 135...and saw a police car sitting on the side of the road. I thought I was a goner for sure, but I hit the brakes anyway. Even though there was no traffic around (that's the reason I was going so fast), he didn't come after me. For which I thank him.

I must admit, every speeding ticket I've gotten, I've deserved. So my policy is not to argue or complain, I've been given a break many, many times.

I found in Maine, the accepted speed on I95 was about 75 mph....

 

[the caracal kid]

dex,

it is important to note that the highways are usually designed for a higher speed than what they are designated. The advisory signs for corners,etc are just that, advisories.

Agreed that driving faster than conditions allow (or too close for said conditions) is risky. Some people are either less able to read conditions, or "just risk it"(not thinking).

Personally, the thing that i think is one of the most dangerous things on our multilane highways is difference in speeds. Many people do not pay attention to the differences in speed between themselves and other cars.

 

[cyberclark]

I think traffic cops must get bored out of their minds after a while.
I was booting down a 2 lane highway, properly spaced with perhaps 8 other vehicles ahead of me.

All at once: the lead vehicle made a left hand turn across the oncomming lane thereby blocking access to that lane and providing a distraction. Brakes were on! Holy hell was in my head.

I cut right into the ditch as other cars had cut right onto the sholder, behind the fog line.

The dust cleared and the cop came to my window and asked to see my driver's licence.

I went up one side of him and down the other about his crap driving causing all this problem and suggested we call another cop in to weigh the scene. I told him in a crush like that he could have at least turned on his overheads to perk up the line as he was otherwise un noticable.

We settled on a spat of name calling and I drove my way and he his.

I'm not sure if I was the idiot or not.