God will burn them if they burn His book

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
3
38
Vancouver
Is this the democracy?

This is not correct; because the transgression on the Quran is not allowed as part of freedom. This is not the freedom.

If such pastor does not believe in the Quran (and he will receive his punishment from his Lord), then no one may force him to believe, but to go and shout before other people and burn the Quran: this is unacceptable.
*Sigh*... Ever seen people work within the democratic system in order to defeat it? Two issues:

First, after his failed beer-hall putsch, Hitler vowed that he would from thence forth work within the democratic system of the Wiemar Republic, but he made no secret about how if he got power by that democratic system's laws, he would, upon achieving power, radically change it, which he did (when he had only 37% of the popular vote, but the other parties were fragmented, so he got the biggest slice of a pie cut too many ways... sort of like how Harper is using his position of only 36% of people on his side resulting in dismantlement of Canada's water-protection acts... why would anybody not on the side of Lucifer allow for protection of environmentally clean water to be dismantled?)...

... And so also Christians hear you guys say that it should be your democratic right to demolish democracy.

The second issue is that when real Christians say it is wrong to make a spectacle of burning other peoples' holy book, it is because they are doing it out of empathy, whereas you keep saying the book should not be burned or else you're going to start a war.

We say it should not be burned out of empathy because we know it would feel. You say we shouldn not burn it because we are supposed to be afraid of you.

Are you nuts? Do you have any idea what happens if you really piss us off? We're not going to talk about it, because you don't know how pissed off a people has to be to start nuking the planet pole-to-pole.

We say the Quran should not be burned because we know how it would feel to watch holy scriptures burned. You say it should not be burned or else you're going to get violent.

Are you nuts? Yes I understand the mission Mohammed was faced converting Arabs; they're the kind of people who could not be led to God unless scared and threaten with detailed descriptions of hell, but that was a long time ago before Islam spread to Persia and the Turks.

Do you see how the stupidest thing you can do is try to scare us when we're the ones feeling empathy for what it would feel like to watch holy scripture burn?

Islam consist of 1.2 billion people. Do you honestly believe this many people are all intolerant and violent? You are succumbing to demonizing propaganda which portrays the actions of a tiny minority as representative of the majority. That perception is about as accurate as believing that Christian extremists who kill doctors that perform abortions and Christian priests who abuse children represent the true nature of Christianity.

BTW, peace is a basic concept in Islamic thought.
Peace in Islamic philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What percentage of western civilization people do the Muslim radicals have an issue with?

Last time I checked, it was the 5% who own half of everything - called the Plutocrats - who cheerfully exploit the middle-east for oil leaving nothing for the people born upon that wealth except for a messed up standard of values.

*We* know the Plutocrats are incarnations of Lucifer sperm - it's a cross we bear for having a civilization governed by law - but *they* think those bad-a-s bear-cats represent us all.

Hmm... is it possible that the 5% Plutocrats in the west equals the 5% radical Muslims in the east?

My head is spinning. Okay, it's almost certainly too extreme to be realized, which means the option is to write it up as some cheap dime-store pulp sci-fi, but... imagine the plot-twists of a situation where the ordinary people of the west make peace with Islam by having it agreed that Muslim radicals only attack Plutocrats, resulting in newly opened market segments for good-hearted people to move in and set up shop, and the good-hearted of the west want to trade their world's best lamb for some of your Persian carpets.
 
Last edited:

eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
We say it should not be burned out of empathy because we know it would feel. You say we shouldn not burn it because we are supposed to be afraid of you.

Are you nuts? Do you have any idea what happens if you really piss us off? We're not going to talk about it, because you don't know how pissed off a people has to be to start nuking the planet pole-to-pole.

We say the Quran should not be burned because we know how it would feel to watch holy scriptures burned. You say it should not be burned or else you're going to get violent.

Are you nuts? Yes I understand the mission Mohammed was faced converting Arabs; they're the kind of people who could not be led to God unless scared and threaten with detailed descriptions of hell, but that was a long time ago before Islam spread to Persia and the Turks.

Do you see how the stupidest thing you can do is try to scare us when we're the ones feeling empathy for what it would feel like to watch holy scripture burn?


Are you nuts?

Are you nuts? Don't you discern things to see I didn't threaten you by any violence; I said: God will denfend His book: the Quran.
And it is right, and it is no offence: no one can overcome God Almighty.

Moreover, the real man is the one who fears; he fears God lest He should punish him, if he wrongs others or commits some disobedience.

While the man who is not God-fearing: he is not any brave man.

In the wisdom of Solomon: The essence of wisdom is God-fearing.

The past nations collapsed, declined and perished when they did not fear God: their apostle warned them and they did not listen to him: they were not God-fearing.

As God - be glorified - said in the Quran 17: 59

وَمَا نُرْسِلُ بِالآيَاتِ إِلاَّ تَخْوِيفًا

The explanation:
(And We do not send [messengers to their nations] with miracles, except to frighten [that nation : like the staff of Moses to Pharaoh and his folk.])

And God said in the next aya 17: 60

وَنُخَوِّفُهُمْ فَمَا يَزِيدُهُمْ إِلاَّ طُغْيَانًا كَبِيرًا


The explanation:
(We make them alarmed [: frighten them], but it only increases their excessive rebellion.)


Quran Interpretation
 
Last edited:

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
9,032
2,088
113
New Brunswick
So if this guy burns the Koran and nothing happens to him, does that mean God didn't have a problem with "his" book being burned?

Of course, what if the punishment comes from a human? Does that mean, then, that Humans had to "do the deed" instead of God? Would that not mean, then, that God is a coward and had to leave it up to his lackeys to do his dirty work?

As for fearing God - bleh, not really. Fearing God is counter-productive, IMO. Doing things for "God" out of fear doesn't mean squat; doing them because you actually honor and "love" your said God, that means a whole bunch more.
 

eanassir

Time Out
Jul 26, 2007
3,099
9
38
The Ten Commandments In The Quran


Naahh.....Those were the tablets that Moses broke:lol:

When Moses returned from the Mount Hor where God spoke to him, and God ordered him to make two tablets of stone, then He cast sleep on Moses, then when Moses awoke he found it written on the tablets of stone: the Ten Words or the Ten Commandments; it was written miraculously so that light emitted from the letters and the letters were protuberant out of the surface of the stone; none see them but will admit God wrote them with His might.

Then when Moses returned to his people, he found them fallen in the idolatry, so he became angry and cast the tablets violently on the ground and they were broken into pieces and the letters distroted and the light went off. So Moses was furiously nervous (his nature and temperament was like this: he was kind - hearted but he was hastening and had such bouts of anger for some serious affairs like this idolatry of his people in his absence.

So Moses asked his Lord to re-write the words again for him, and God told him to copy the Ten Words.

The Children of Israel (like you :lol: ) denied and said: "Who says such tablets have been written by God Himself?"

So the mountain cleft and it stood over their heads like a canopy, and the cleft was about to fall upon them, but they cried: We repent ...we repent.
So the cleft settled back in its place.

As in the Quran 7: 171

وَإِذ نَتَقْنَا الْجَبَلَ فَوْقَهُمْ كَأَنَّهُ ظُلَّةٌ وَظَنُّواْ أَنَّهُ وَاقِعٌ بِهِمْ خُذُواْ مَا آتَيْنَاكُم بِقُوَّةٍ وَاذْكُرُواْ مَا فِيهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ


The explanation:
(And [remember] We caused the Mount [Sinai] to tower above them, as if it were a canopy, and they thought it falling upon them;

[We said to them:] "Hold fast that which We have given you, and be admonished with that which is therein that you may ward off [God's punishment.]")


And see also the Arabic interpretation of the aya 4:154





So if this guy burns the Koran and nothing happens to him, does that mean God didn't have a problem with "his" book being burned?

Of course, what if the punishment comes from a human? Does that mean, then, that Humans had to "do the deed" instead of God? Would that not mean, then, that God is a coward and had to leave it up to his lackeys to do his dirty work?

As for fearing God - bleh, not really. Fearing God is counter-productive, IMO. Doing things for "God" out of fear doesn't mean squat; doing them because you actually honor and "love" your said God, that means a whole bunch more.


He stopped doing such burning, and that's it; to each event are its circumstances and consequences.

None can escape the might of God: the earth and heavens are His possession.

For God-fearing see the reply #62
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States

Poirot

New Member
Sep 10, 2010
3
0
1
85
Indiana
The Christian faith if not all that popular in media. If you are a Christian chances are you are labeled a radical or fanatic fringe. So why not burn the bible?
Christians have been burnt alive for their beliefs.
The bible is only a book. Burn it.
Christanity will grow and gain in faith from its ashes.
The words have been around much longer than the koran.
As a christian it will always be in my heart and head.
Burn it we say.
It will still live.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Muslims burn churches all over the world... I am pretty sure there are bibles in those churches.

Hypocrites
 
  • Like
Reactions: Risus

Serryah

Executive Branch Member
Dec 3, 2008
9,032
2,088
113
New Brunswick
He stopped doing such burning, and that's it; to each event are its circumstances and consequences.

None can escape the might of God: the earth and heavens are His possession.

For God-fearing see the reply #62

He stopped the burning, but I was saying "If", because though he's stopped it for now, it doesn't mean the idea is totally stopped.

You didn't answer my question in any case: "Of course, what if the punishment comes from a human? Does that mean, then, that Humans had to "do the deed" instead of God? Would that not mean, then, that God is a coward and had to leave it up to his lackeys to do his dirty work?"

Lastly, it is not a brave man who does things out of fear. A brave man does things because they are right, honorable, or they do them out of love. Which is better, for a child to do something out of fear, or out of respect for the authority that asks them to do something? No question it would be better that the child does so out of respect, honor and love. Because to do it out of fear builds resentment and most likely nothing is learned in the process. The other way, it is likely that someone will learn something - about themselves or about their "God" - which is always better.

But hey, if you want to fear the God of your choice, go ahead. Your free will to do so. I on the other hand will not fear and I thank my version of God that fear is not a requirement for worship.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Updates: #1

Afghans stage protests over Qur'an burning
CBC News - World - Afghans stage protests over Qur'an burning

A Florida pastor's plan to burn copies of the Qur'an led to large protests across Afghanistan on Friday.

The protesters burned U.S. flags and chanted "Death to Christians."

At least 11 people were reported injured across the country during the demonstrations.

Police said four demonstrators and five police officers were injured in clashes in the northern province of Badakhshan after protesters attacked a NATO base.

Police denied earlier reports that one person was shot and killed outside the base.

Meanwhile, police in the western province of Farah said two people were injured in another protest at a mosque.

So it's no longer Death to Americans or Canadians.... it's now Death to Christians...... great way to expand and make this conflict even worse.

Update #2:


Qur'an burning hangs on mosque meeting: pastor
CBC News - World - Qur'an burning hangs on mosque meeting: pastor

The head of a small Florida church says he'll back off his plan to burn the Qur'an on Sept. 11 if he can meet with the organizers of a controversial proposed mosque in New York City.

"My understanding is, due to time constraints, the meeting may not happen tomorrow," Musri said. "But we are in talks with New York to schedule a meeting as soon as possible."

Rev. Terry Jones, leader of the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, has been at the centre of criticism over his plans to burn the Muslim holy book on the ninth anniversary of the attacks on the U.S.

Jones said on NBC's Today show Friday that he won't burn the book if he gets the meeting he is seeking on Saturday..........

........Imam Muhammad Musri, the president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida and the man who has been acting as an intermediary between Jones and Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, who is behind the proposed NYC mosque, told CBC News that the meeting may not happen Saturday.

On a confusing Thursday, Jones initially said he had decided to call off the burning because of a deal negotiated with Musri that organizers of the effort to build an Islamic centre near Ground Zero had agreed to move its location.

Musri replied that he could only set up a meeting with Rauf.

Later that night, Jones claimed Musri "clearly, clearly lied to us" about the centre being moved.


My guess is that if he can't burn the books, he'll have a meeting with these organizers of the mosque so he can probably go on a shooting rampage and try and kill them all..... either way, my bet is this wing nut wants to get famous for starting WWIII one way or another.

After all, why does he want a meeting and what does he think he will accomplish from this meeting?

He doesn't want the mosque built (which I thought already existed there for a long time, they were just upgrading it) but what does he think he will accomplish with this meeting, or burning of their holy book?
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
He doesn't want the mosque built (which I thought already existed there for a long time, they were just upgrading it) but what does he think he will accomplish with this meeting, or burning of their holy book?​

Unless The Burlington Coat Factory qualifies as a mosque these days it wasn't there.

He wants the mosque not to be built. Don't build the mosque, he won't burn the book. That is his position thus far.
 

Omicron

Privy Council
Jul 28, 2010
1,694
3
38
Vancouver
Unless The Burlington Coat Factory qualifies as a mosque these days it wasn't there.

He wants the mosque not to be built. Don't build the mosque, he won't burn the book. That is his position thus far.
They had a sort of community meeting center in the neighborhood already. It wasn't a full-blown mosque.

In any case, the guy's a loon, with only 30 members in his congregation, so maybe he's pushing for televangelist status in order to boost membership. He was impervious to all criticism - even from the President - but he buckled after a tongue lashing from the Secretary of Defense; I would like to have heard that.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
I think all the power-hungry extremists should be marooned together on a little island surrounded by shark-infested water and see whose God rescues who first....

The imam digging his heels in, and that preacher are both nutcrackers:laughing6:

They both have the constitutional right to do what they want to do and both show bad taste in what they are doing....

with one difference....


The imam started the whole thing:roll:
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
10,609
99
48
Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
Unless The Burlington Coat Factory qualifies as a mosque these days it wasn't there.

He wants the mosque not to be built. Don't build the mosque, he won't burn the book. That is his position thus far.

Ah I stand corrected then.... I thought they were upgrading an already existing mosque that was there for years already.... or are they upgrading an already existing one while also moving it? :-?

Either way I just don't understand the kuffufle over this whole thing in New York.... sure it's close to the WTC monument, but last I checked it was a bunch of extremist nut jobs who had a grudge against the US who committed the attack and using their screwed up views of their religion to justify it, it was not the entire religion including the modests.

That's like not allowing a church to be built because of what happened in Waco or because of some wing nuts who are a small fraction of a larger group...... kind of like this idiot wanting to burn the books..... he's obviously a small minority of a larger group, but look at how the rest of the world is treating this situation and look at how Muslims around the world are viewing Christians because of this twit.

The cycle has to stop somewhere, but this guy is obviously not going to be that somewhere..... he's just going to be the hand that spins it around for another go.

Eventually the wheel's going to fall off and we're all going to go for one hell of a ride.
 
Last edited:

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
Where is that priest or cleric of some kind from Sudbury that used to be a member of this forum......;-)

We need some kind of balance here

DaSleeper, go to sleep :sleepy2:

I would guess you probably did meet Sanctus at one time or another, If I remember correctly he didn't do as much Bible quoting as you do Quran quoting though.....
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
They had a sort of community meeting center in the neighborhood already. It wasn't a full-blown mosque.

In any case, the guy's a loon, with only 30 members in his congregation, so maybe he's pushing for televangelist status in order to boost membership. He was impervious to all criticism - even from the President - but he buckled after a tongue lashing from the Secretary of Defense; I would like to have heard that.

50 members, but who is counting, yes he is a loon. :smile:
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
They had a sort of community meeting center in the neighborhood already. It wasn't a full-blown mosque.

In any case, the guy's a loon, with only 30 members in his congregation, so maybe he's pushing for televangelist status in order to boost membership. He was impervious to all criticism - even from the President - but he buckled after a tongue lashing from the Secretary of Defense; I would like to have heard that.

There is, I believe another mosque close by. One that was there before 9/11 and was not damaged, etc.

The guy is a loon. No question. But the mere fact that he got a call from the US Sec Def speaks volumes. I would like to hear it as well and I would bet that it wasn't a tongue lashing. I bet he gave him the score. You burn the quran, and it makes things more difficult for the folks in uniform.