Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’

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Extrafire

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Have you ever actually investigated who said what back in the 1970's? The National Academy of Science said there was very little evidence to support an oncoming ice age. Rasool is the author most often cited, but his study said nothing about impending ice age, instead he made a prediction about what would happen if aerosol levels increased by a magnitude of between 6 and 8.
I keep forgetting how young you are. I lived through it, and if I'd known you wanted names and records I would have kept notes. But you weren't around to tell me so I didn't. I actually believed that one; it was before I learned not to worry about all the dire predictions of approaching calamity. Thankfully, the environmental movement had very little influence on government at that time so we were spared the kind of international mass hysteria we're subjected to now.

Try finding any other studies that claim an ice age is pending Extra. It seems you've been told there are many, or perhaps you read them. I'd like to read them.

The pattern is in the kyr scale. Simply looking at the patterns and saying it looks like we're due for an ice age will not suffice. Have you found the empirical evidence of forcing changes which brought about the ice ages? Is it large enough to overpower the anthropogenic forcing? Where is the evidence Extra? Which scientists have been warning for years?
Let me get this straight; you seriously don't believe we're going to have another ice age? You really think that this natural recurring pattern has suddenly ceased? And what would be the reason it won't happen again? As for the causes, apparently it has to do with variations of the earth's orbit, axial tilt, axial wobble, planetary alignment. I'm not going to lay it all out for you, you know that it's real, it's happened in the past and will happen again. It's only a matter of when. If anthropogenic forcing was real, yes it most definitely will overpower it. Look at that graph. What the warming alarmists are worried about is a return to the same temperatures as the Holocene optimum about 7000 years ago, a 2 degree increase, while ice ages have a decrease of 15 degrees, 40 in the higher latitudes. Nothing we could do to warm the planet in our worst nightmares could affect that. Besides, check the duration of the glaciation compared to the optimums. If we burned all our fossil fuels at maximum, how long would it last? 500 years? We'd just be getting into the cooling when we ran out. And again, if you'd let me know 20 years ago that you wanted to know which scientists were warning I'd have kept notes.

You're in denial, Ton. Whether or not there is an ice age is irrelevant to the current debate over AGW. It is a certainty, and when it comes it will overwhelm anything we can do.
 

Extrafire

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According to my climate expert, Switsof, the expert he quoted that I quoted in turn is not his expert. This has become a matter of considerable complicacy.
:lol:

[...]

Who is it, besides polar bears, that doesn't like global warming? NASA doesn't mind.
Actually, polar bears do like global warming, their population explodes during warming periods.
 

Extrafire

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Oh, THAT Antarctica. I knew dat.

If that white patch melts off the sea goes up by 70 meters. That's a lot. I'd like to see some maps of the world with an additional 70-140 meters of seawater, whatever year that might be. If everything is happening as fast as I've heard, this is a mere 100 year scenario. They should be building the first 10 floors of the new World Trade Centre in New York with the fish in mind.
According to scientists, the ice is increasing over 97% of Antarctica and the northern part of Greenland. So we don't have to worry about any flooding from that source. Also they say that if it was melting it would take 7000 years, more than enough time to adapt our lifestyles.
 

Tonington

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I keep forgetting how young you are. I lived through it, and if I'd known you wanted names and records I would have kept notes. But you weren't around to tell me so I didn't. I actually believed that one; it was before I learned not to worry about all the dire predictions of approaching calamity. Thankfully, the environmental movement had very little influence on government at that time so we were spared the kind of international mass hysteria we're subjected to now.

I have searched for the studies. I didn't find any study, except the misquote from Rasool in 1971. The other entries come from non-academic sources, which is ample reason to distrust any mainstream media stories, without the corresponding studies to back up the editorializing.

Let me get this straight; you seriously don't believe we're going to have another ice age? You really think that this natural recurring pattern has suddenly ceased? And what would be the reason it won't happen again? As for the causes, apparently it has to do with variations of the earth's orbit, axial tilt, axial wobble, planetary alignment. I'm not going to lay it all out for you, you know that it's real, it's happened in the past and will happen again. It's only a matter of when. If anthropogenic forcing was real, yes it most definitely will overpower it. Look at that graph. What the warming alarmists are worried about is a return to the same temperatures as the Holocene optimum about 7000 years ago, a 2 degree increase, while ice ages have a decrease of 15 degrees, 40 in the higher latitudes. Nothing we could do to warm the planet in our worst nightmares could affect that. Besides, check the duration of the glaciation compared to the optimums. If we burned all our fossil fuels at maximum, how long would it last? 500 years? We'd just be getting into the cooling when we ran out. And again, if you'd let me know 20 years ago that you wanted to know which scientists were warning I'd have kept notes.

You're in denial, Ton. Whether or not there is an ice age is irrelevant to the current debate over AGW. It is a certainty, and when it comes it will overwhelm anything we can do.

All that flapping notwithstanding...Read carefully. Where did I say I didn't think there would ever be another ice age? I don't think one is imminent. Two very different statements. Of course there will be ice ages in the future, I'm not convinced we're on the cusp, as I thought was clear from my response to Jimshort.
 

Walter

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Jan 4, 2008
Global warming a big hoax

John Fogle

In the spirit of being a good neighbor, I've decided to offer a needed service for all of the believers in human-caused global warming. That's right, step right up, folks, I'm going to be selling carbon credits to those who want to assuage their guilt about heating up the planet with their SUVs.For those of you not familiar with carbon credits, people who don't want to cut back on their use of fossil fuels just pay someone else to cut back, much the same way you might pay someone to eat healthy foods for you so you can eat anything you want.My gimmick is that I'm offering $100 carbon credits for only $89 each. If you buy carbon credits from Al Gore, you'll have to pay the full retail price. But if you send your money directly to me, you'll receive an official certificate for $100 in carbon credits for every $89 you send. But wait, there's more. If you are among the first 500 purchasers, we'll include a fantastic vegetable chopper, a $19.99 value, absolutely free.And you will be helping to save the planet. I've had my eye on a 12-foot jon boat with a used 10-horse Evinrude, which will no doubt pump out oodles of carbon dioxide. But instead, I'm going to use the proceeds of carbon credit sales to purchase a sailboat -- in other words, an environmentally friendly boat that uses wind power. The latest issue of Yachts International includes an ad for a 66-foot Van De Stadt for a mere $2,295,000. That's a lot of carbon credits, but I'm sure if all of you dig deep enough, we can pull this off.When you display your certificates on the wall, not only can you be smug about protecting our planet, you can also proudly tell your friends and neighbors that you got them wholesale.Expanding the same general principle, I'm also pleased to offer healthy food credits to folks who need to improve their diet. Just send me $5, and I'll eat a stalk of celery for you. Of course, that's with a big blob of Cheese Whiz spread all over it. Sorry, if you want me to eat the thing with no topping; it'll cost you 10 bucks.(Note to the humor-challenged: the above is satire. Do not send money to me or to any carnie out there, whether they are selling carbon credits or tickets to see a two-headed calf.)

I believe it was P.T. Barnum who said that there is a carbon credit purchaser born every minute. Or, did he say that a carbon credit purchaser and his money are soon parted? Well, it was something like that.It would be easy to write off the global warming alarmists as a bunch of harmless boobs who will soon be refuted, but we should learn from history. DDT alarmism was also based on politics instead of science and has been thoroughly refuted, but at last count, there are still a million people perishing from malaria each year due to the DDT ban.While everyone agrees that the earth has warmed between a half degree and one degree centigrade over the last century, and that humans may have a small part in it, there is absolutely no "consensus" that humans are the major cause. Since the planet Mars is also warming, it is likely that we are experiencing a normal variation in the sun's output. Furthermore, if the earth continues to warm, there is no universal agreement that humans can actually do anything about it.Yes, of course we need to reduce our use of fossil fuels to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. But, we know that global warming alarmism is simply a political ploy when alarmists refuse to acknowledge the real solution -- nuclear power -- which puts nothing other than water vapor into the atmosphere.A report released by Sen. Inhofe (R-OK) on Dec. 20 included this opening statement: "Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called 'consensus' on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore." That sums it up nicely, but you can read the entire report at epw.senate.gov.John Fogle, a Times-News community columnist, can be contacted at fogle222@bellsouth.net. His column appears on the first Friday of the month.
 

Tonington

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DDT alarmism was also based on politics instead of science and has been thoroughly refuted, but at last count, there are still a million people perishing from malaria each year due to the DDT ban.

Ummm, bullsh|t. There are many areas of the world where malaria carrying mosquitoes are resistant to DDT. Of course I wouldn't expect the factually challenged editorializing cracker jack box journalists to know that. People are perishing from malaria, because of malaria, not a DDT ban.

That said, there is still use for DDT, provided it's used as a repellent, like on windows and entrances to your home, but it won't protect people wandering about in malaria prone areas, unless you're willing to spray it on your body. Not a good idea.

The rest of the article follows the standard model of cherry picking and outright lies that I have come to expect from Walters snip jobs.
 

Walter

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William M. Briggs, Statistician


U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Skeptical Climate Scientists
January 10th, 2008
The U.S. Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works has released an addendum to its list of 400-plus scientists who express some level of skepticism about man-made global warming. I highlight this because, well, it turns out that my name has made its way onto the list, so I now have to explain why and what it means to be a “skeptic.”
I should first explain that I am on this list reluctantly, because, as I have been quoted as saying, “Most scientists just don’t want the publicity [associated with speaking out on climate matters] one way or another. Generally, publicity is not good for one’s academic career.” I do not think, then, that my being on that list, and starting this blog, will bring a tremendous boost in my own professional life. Scientists like to see discussions about uncertainty in their methods and results kept inside peer-reviewed journals and not dragged through the press. They have strong opinions on this. Witness the scorn heaped up the physicists Fleishman and Pons when they first released their “cold fusion” theory to the press and not to other scientists; for example, see this article which says that what the pair did was a “‘classic’ example of what not to do as” scientists. Actually, this is an odd statement because the incident ended well—because it was the initial public announcement that spurred the flurry of research that showed that cold fusion was false.
The only reason that I have been able to think of about why research should be confined to journals is that it is in these places that scientists expect to find new results. Scientists are not in the habit of scanning the newspaper or trolling the internet looking for press releases. There just isn’t the time to do so.
But climatology has, unfortunately, become a different sort of creature. Far too much speculation shows up in the headlines. Prominent scientists have taken to using the press as a bludgeon to discourage reasonable dissent. An example: R K Pachauri, Chairman of the IPCC, and now co-recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize, has compared anybody that dared question mad-made climate change to those who believe in a flat earth.
“Well, there will always be some skeptics,” Pachauri said. “As you know, there is still in existence something called the Flat Earth Society. There are people — a very limited number, thank God — who believe the Earth is flat.” Source: Washington Post
These excruciating comments are asinine and irresponsible, and they must be answered publicly.
I am not skeptical that man causes changes in his environment; in fact, I argue man must cause changes (see this post). I am only skeptical about the extent of these changes and about our ability to understand them. I am skeptical of the results from climate models that are used to posit large and harmful shifts in the earth’s temperature.
The vast majority of pronouncements about climate change are based on forecasts, guesses made about the future which are conditional on the multitude of assumptions underlying the models being true and on the forecasts having only small error. My specialty is in forecast evaluation (not just climate models, but any kind), and I do not feel that climate models have shown their ability to make accurate predictions thus far. This is why I said that the “error associated with climate predictions is also much larger than that usually ascribed to them; meaning, of course, that people are far too sure of themselves and their models.”
Overconfidence is a common human trait, and it holds in scientists just as much as it does with civilians. Typically, however, the excessive surety of scientists is tempered by the peer-criticism process, which has the effect of reducing, but never eliminating, prediction error. But this service won’t work well if experts are made to feel squeamish about making their critiques because of a public browbeating by autocratic scientists, politicians, and “activists.”
There is also a shade of “groupthink”—bandwagon research—not so much with climatologists, but with the mass of secondary and tertiary investigators who use climate model output as input to their own models of economics, public health, sociology, and so on. These models invariably show what they were programmed to show: that climate change of any kind is bad. This is, of course, physically impossible; but these are not physicists who are making these remarks—which of course quickly find their way into the press—and thus they are not held accountable in that sense.
Of course, if global climate models eventually show skill, then I will believe what they have to say.
 

Walter

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[FONT=Palatino, Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][SIZE=+2]'What can we do about global warming?'[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]Posted: January 10, 2008[/SIZE]
When 400 bona fide climate and atmospheric scientists, with impeccable credentials, say they don't buy into man-made catastrophic global warming, politician-for-life Al Gore, without any evidence to back up his scurrilous and defamatory accusation, suggests they are all being paid off by big business.
I think I'm very safe in making this statement without any investigation whatsoever: Al Gore has been paid off more by big business in his political career than all 400 of those scientists put together.
Yet, no one calls this Nobel Peace Prize winner on it. He can say anything and get away with it – even be rewarded for it. He can tell any lie – and take home awards for it. He can hurl slanderous accusations that describe no one better than himself.
Big business?
Name one big business that is fighting this global warming hysteria.
Everywhere I look I see big business joining the hysteria, using it as a marketing tool, claiming their products and services have small carbon footprints, whatever that means.
In fact, global warming hysteria is big business. I strongly believe that's what motivates Al Gore to be the Pied Piper of this global hoax. Isn't he in the business of selling carbon credits? Hasn't anyone figured out his racket yet? Gee, let's see. A guy comes along selling the end of the world and, also, coincidentally, selling the cure. Wouldn't you get just a little suspicious?
I'm shocked that so many Americans and others around the world have fallen for this.
If any of you reading this column are among this gullible group, I have some prime real estate in Manhattan I'd like to sell you called Central Park. (Inquire within.)
Not only is big business pushing the global warming hype, but so is big government.
Practically everyone in the federal is part of the scam – from George W. Bush to the Congress to the Evironmental Protection Agency to the Department of Education and so on.
And that's just the start of how big this conspiracy is.
It filters right down to the public school classroom in your town.
Here's an example of what's happening throughout the state of Illinois. The state's EPA enlists the help of the state's education system to spread the state's propaganda.
OK, let's have a poster contest on what we can do about global warming.
The contest will be judged on, among other things, the accuracy of the content! But I will bet you that any kid who is skeptical about global warming will not have a chance to win.
This nonsense – this indoctrination, this spreading of lies – is going on in virtually every public school in the country. It goes on in elementary schools, and it goes on in colleges and universities. And there is no science behind it. There is no truth behind it. There is no point behind it except to enlist your little darlin' into the legion of mindless robots who care only about minimizing their parents' carbon footprints.
I'm sure I've said it before, but it needs to be said again and again: This is nothing more than child abuse. It has nothing to do with education. It is the opposite of education. It is mis-education.
People who do this kind of thing to little children should be incarcerated. But they won't be, because big business and big government are behind it! And anyone who questions what is being taught in this new Stalinesque environment is labeled an enemy of the people.
It is also a blatant violation of the First Amendment, which does indeed prohibit Congress from making any law that establishes a state religion.
Guess what? Global warming is indeed a state religion – and it is being spread coercively using all the power of big government and big business to do it. Just see how the "heretics" are treated – even if they do happen to be 400 of the most prominent climate scientists in the world.
 
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jimshort19

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Joseph Farah is a bit over the top but, Gore's company, GIM was specifically established to take financial advantage of new technologies and solutions related to combating Global Warming.

Gore is in fact cashing in on what can not unfairly be called hysteria. He is no scientist, that's for sure. Whether Gore is a villain or a hero, I am as yet uncertain. Let's do a series of 'DIRT' threads, starting with the dirt on Gore.
 

Extrafire

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Of course we can do this. Start pumping sulfates into the air as we do with greenhouse gases. All you have to do is put enough to cancel the forcing that greenhouse gases currently represent, and voila, trend reversed.
Actually, research indicates that areas producing lots of sulfates are warmer than those that don't. The sulfate theory was put forward by the IPCC in 1990 when they were challenged to explain the 30 year cooling period from the 1940's to the 1970's at a time when there was massive increase in CO2 emissions and ppm. That idea has been debunked and the IPCC responded by just ignoring that cooling period - one assumes that they hope if they don't talk about it no-one will remember it anymore.
 

Extrafire

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[...]

All that flapping notwithstanding...Read carefully. Where did I say I didn't think there would ever be another ice age? I don't think one is imminent. Two very different statements. Of course there will be ice ages in the future, I'm not convinced we're on the cusp, as I thought was clear from my response to Jimshort.
Well, you said this:
Ummm, bull sh|t. Where is the evidence for an oncoming ice age?
to Jimshort. So no, I guess you don't believe we're not ever going to have another ice age. As for its imminence, I guess I have to know what you mean by that word. In human terms, no it isn't, I don't expect my grandchildren to live long enough to see it. In geological terms it appears to be quite imminent. Your idea that
[…] Simply looking at the patterns and saying it looks like we're due for an ice age will not suffice[…]
is incorrect, since evidence of a natural recurring pattern is the very best indicator that it will be repeated.
 

Tonington

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Actually, research indicates that areas producing lots of sulfates are warmer than those that don't. The sulfate theory was put forward by the IPCC in 1990 when they were challenged to explain the 30 year cooling period from the 1940's to the 1970's at a time when there was massive increase in CO2 emissions and ppm. That idea has been debunked and the IPCC responded by just ignoring that cooling period - one assumes that they hope if they don't talk about it no-one will remember it anymore.

First off, theres a difference between tropospheric sulfates and stratospheric sulfates, not chemically, but in how they interact. Areas producing sulfates now, are not reaching the stratosphere, and not large enough to produce a significant forcing that would mask the positive forcing trend. Cite the study where this was debunked, as this is standard knowledge.

What's most hilarious about this Extra, is that the Rasool study I mentioned, which was from 1971, was dealing expressly with aerosols. He hypothesized from his results that if we put more of these aerosols into the atmosphere, we could cool it. Well before the IPCC. :lol:

Well, you said this: to Jimshort. So no, I guess you don't believe we're not ever going to have another ice age. As for its imminence, I guess I have to know what you mean by that word. In human terms, no it isn't, I don't expect my grandchildren to live long enough to see it. In geological terms it appears to be quite imminent. Your idea that....is incorrect, since evidence of a natural recurring pattern is the very best indicator that it will be repeated.

Well, seeing as how abruptly 450 kyr ago, the climate patterns shifted from repeating ice ages every 40 kyr to 100 kyr, it would be appropriate that simply saying it happened in the past will not suffice. It could get longer, it could get shorter, but without evidence, simply saying it will repeat on the same period it has for the last 450 kyr is not scientific. You're ignoring the fundamental physics of the system. Things happen that can change patterns. A forcing is a forcing, as far as the climate is concerned.

I wasn't talking about geologic time scales, I don't live in geologic time scales. Maybe after we're gone it will change to a cooling trend, but it's not changing anytime soon.
 

Praxius

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One thing I notice people claiming here is that if all that ice melts our sea levels will rise... yet a simple science project in jr high will show you that a glass of water filled with a couple of ice cubes, when melted, does not increase the water level by very much. The only increase would be the little nub of the ice cube above the surface. So logically if all the ice in the north melted, we wouldn't see any major increase in ocean levels.

But not to mention, when water freezes, it also expands, therefore when the ice does melt, it'll take up less mass in the oceans, therefore there's also a good change that if all the ice caps melted, then the oceans would in fact shrink.... therefore that little nub I mentioned above, would only balance out the missing volume/mass, etc.

I think Gore and his world renound scientists should go back to school.

Even if my understanding of this is limited and there is a chance of water levels rising from let's say the mountain areas of Antartica, I know that our oceans will not increase several metres to flood out cities like they showed in many movies or speculations by Global Warming nuts.
 
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Tonington

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One thing I notice people claiming here is that if all that ice melts our sea levels will rise... yet a simple science project in jr high will show you that a glass of water filled with a couple of ice cubes, when melted, does not increase the water level by very much. The only increase would be the little nub of the ice cube above the surface. So logically if all the ice in the north melted, we wouldn't see any major increase in ocean levels.

But not to mention, when water freezes, it also expands, therefore when the ice does melt, it'll take up less mass in the oceans, therefore there's also a good change that if all the ice caps melted, then the oceans would in fact shrink.... therefore that little nub I mentioned above, would only balance out the missing volume/mass, etc.

I think Gore and his world renound scientists should go back to school.

Even if my understanding of this is limited and there is a chance of water levels rising from let's say the mountain areas of Antartica, I know that our oceans will not increase several metres to flood out cities like they showed in many movies or speculations by Global Warming nuts.

Glaciers and Ice sheets are not like the ice cube analogy. Instead it's like dropping water into a full glass.

Warming oceans also expand. Thermal expansion.

Even without thermal expansion, the water contained in Greenland, and Antarctica is enough to raise the sea level several meters.
 

Praxius

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Glaciers and Ice sheets are not like the ice cube analogy. Instead it's like dropping water into a full glass.

Warming oceans also expand. Thermal expansion.

Even without thermal expansion, the water contained in Greenland, and Antarctica is enough to raise the sea level several meters.

But then that raises another point.

The warmer the oceans are, the more hurricanes we have, and the more stronger they become due to the warmer waters which fuel them. They also cool things down in general.... so instead of global warming to be concerned about, shouldn't we be more concerned over the massive hurricanes which will be coming out way to counter any warming of the climates?

Global Warming isn't a for sure thing, and neither is climate change, as we're all debating these things, but one thing that is constant for each is the level of hurricanes which will follow.

So if the temps warm and perhaps some ice caps do melt.... including glaciers, then those would in turn fuel more hurricanes, which would hince cool the waters and atmosphere, therefore counter balancing whatever effects we may have on the planet and then recreate more freezing the following year. If anything we're setting ourselves up for an ice age.

That is unless we figure out a way to stop hurricanes.... and if that occured, then yeah... I wouldn't dispute the Global Warming theory, and also I would come to the conclusion we're royally screwed.

Added:

Apparently since there is so much to debate and dispute, humanity is no where close to understanding our climate and it's complexities. I imagine once we hit 2100, we may have a better understanding of our planet's cycles. We won't fully know it all, but we'll have a better understanding of what we're going through now and be able to at least expect what's to come the next time around.

But either way, Humanity isn't anywhere close to being in danger of climate change or global warming at a level of extinction. At the worst we'll have a couple of million die, big whoop.... humans are like cockroaches... we're hard to kill and we spawn like mad.

Oh Prax! a couple of million is a lot, you heartless bastard!

Meh... survival of the fittest, best of luck to you all. I already think we're over populated as it is, so a little reduction is what this planet needs for it's own good.

Will I offer my life to help humanity? Pssh... no, don't be silly. I'm too important.
 
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Tonington

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I'd be careful about making claims that a warmer ocean means more hurricanes. Hurricanes are a weather event, and while warmer waters do mean stronger hurricanes, there are many other things they bring about that can shift patterns to a less favourable conditioning for hurricane development.

Case in point was this year. While pre-season data showed warming waters and a favourable ENSO cycle, which would normally favour larger, more frequent hurricanes. They could not foresee what would happen to limit both number and strength of the Atlantic hurricanes this year. Namely, large dust storms in Africa. The dust blew out over the basin where hurricanes are formed, and by blocking incoming sunlight, limited hurricane formation. Those that did form had less energy.

It's important to note that weather has inherently more variability/noise than the climate as a whole. What may seem intuitive can really be much more complex than one would assume.
 

Praxius

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I'd be careful about making claims that a warmer ocean means more hurricanes. Hurricanes are a weather event, and while warmer waters do mean stronger hurricanes, there are many other things they bring about that can shift patterns to a less favourable conditioning for hurricane development.

Case in point was this year. While pre-season data showed warming waters and a favourable ENSO cycle, which would normally favour larger, more frequent hurricanes. They could not foresee what would happen to limit both number and strength of the Atlantic hurricanes this year. Namely, large dust storms in Africa. The dust blew out over the basin where hurricanes are formed, and by blocking incoming sunlight, limited hurricane formation. Those that did form had less energy.

Yes indeed, there are many other things to take into factor. Several of which you missed:

When there are warmer oceans, There are larger, but less frequent hurricanes. When they are colder, there are more, but less powerful hurricanes. Considdering the last big set of Hurricanes we have had, one example would be Katrina, have you noticed how our weather in Canada has basically turned back to normal? I mean, record breaking snow falls, the coldest winter in a long time.... etc etc. Apparently it's a certain continual shift through the globe which takes a year or so. Which would explain this years set of hurricanes were not that many or that bad. Because they were already cooled previously which setup this winter we're having.

But that must be a co'inky'dink I suppose.

http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0601-hurricanes.html

^ Some interesting stuff to read sometime.

It's important to note that weather has inherently more variability/noise than the climate as a whole. What may seem intuitive can really be much more complex than one would assume.

Indeed.... just like "Global Warming"
 

Tonington

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Yes indeed, there are many other things to take into factor. Several of which you missed:

My aim wasn't to produce an explanation of the science of hurricanes. Just too highlight why forecasts are difficult, and the things that happened this year.


Indeed.... just like "Global Warming"

Global warming is a different beast. The mean in the 8 year trends of this graph is close to the long term trend at 0.19 degrees a decade. The standard deviation is almost as large, meaning that short term changes would need to be way out of the running trend to be outside the norm that is global warming.
 

jimshort19

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Tonington, "...short term changes would need to be way out of the running trend to be outside the norm that is global warming."

Do you mean that global warming is difficult to observe? That by the time it is observable it will be far advanced? That comparing historical weather and climate data is virtually a waste of time for our generation?
 
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