Gay advocates fight churches' charity status

snoproblem

Nominee Member
Mar 18, 2005
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If religious groups wind up paying taxes, they'll only have themselves to blame. Serves 'em right for behaving like bigots.

Big time kudos to the gay community for showing some serious stones. Give 'em hell! 8)
 

elk 6x6

New Member
Apr 27, 2005
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Montana
RE: Gay advocates fight c

Rev Blair wrote.

"What, are we going to be attacked by the radical fringe of religious groups? What are they going to do, beat us with their crosses?"

Yes, or fly their planes into your buildings, suicide bomb your cafes, roadside bombs near your capitol and alot of other nasaty stuff.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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If religious groups wind up paying taxes, they'll only have themselves to blame. Serves 'em right for behaving like bigots.

According to the law, the only reason a religious institution can lose its tax-exempt status is because it consistently engages in partisan politics.

I think the government has been more than patient with some of these bigoted bastards.

elk said:
Yes, or fly their planes into your buildings, suicide bomb your cafes, roadside bombs near your capitol and alot of other nasaty stuff.

Nonsense...the radical right of Christianity has no substance, just greed.

How ya doin', Elk? Does that pool hall in Plentywood still exist? You know the one...it has no name, just a sign that says, "pool, beer." I always liked that place.
 

Colin

New Member
Jun 20, 2005
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First I think churchs that do things to deserve tax breaks, such as charitable acts, should have them, reguardless of their stance on gay marrages. Charity has nothing to do with same-sex couples, unless said couples are living in poverty or suffer abuse, which is not a same-sex issue. Second I think churches have every right to decide if they will marry same-sex couples, and if they won't so be it, its their own choice. Yes churches should stay out of politics, but only so long as politics stays out of churches. What I mean is if a church is forced by the government to marry gay couples, that church not only is now involved in politics but has every right to engage. As soon as we start infringing on the rights of people and orginizations as such in our society we are no better then the states. I'm not saying we should allow people to be killed or raped or abused because their religion allows it, but to force the church as a whole to marry same-sex couples when it flys in the face of their most basic believes, and in the end does not result in someones death or abuse, is rediculious. That said I am positive that there will be churches that will marry same-sex couples, and ones that will one day be run by same-sex couples. I for one will not attend one of those churches, because I think it is against the bible, on the other hand I have friends that are gay, I like them, and will fight for them because like myself they are a person and have an undeniable right to freewill. So I do not have much tolerance for bigots, as I do not beleive that Christ calls Christians to act in such a manner, humility and love, not bigotry and oppresion.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
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Jo Canadian said:
:lol: :lol: Here's a topic that should get some fur flying! :lol: :lol:

Gay advocates fight churches' charity status
Institutions fear losing tax breaks if they oppose same-sex unions; Rightly so, gay-rights group says

Alex Hutchinson
The Ottawa Citizen

June 12, 2005

Churches that oppose same-sex marriage legislation have good reason to fear for their charitable status, a leading gay-rights advocate is warning.

"If you are at the public trough, if you are collecting taxpayers' money, you should be following taxpayers' laws. And that means adhering to the Charter," says Kevin Bourassa, who in 2001 married Joe Varnell in one of Canada's first gay weddings, and is behind www.equalmarriage.ca.

"We have no problem with the Catholic Church or any other faith group promoting bigotry," he said. "We have a problem with the Canadian government funding that bigotry."

Several Liberal backbenchers have been pressuring Prime Minister Paul Martin to amend the controversial gay-marriage bill, which is now before the House, to protect the tax status of churches that refuse to perform such marriages.

Under current rules, donations to religious groups are tax-privileged as long as the church refrains from partisan political activity.

"They can't connect their views with any political candidate," said Peter Broder, the director of regulatory affairs at Imagine Canada, an umbrella organization for charities and non-profit groups.

But the role of the Catholic Church in public debate is legitimate and legal, according to Bede Hubbard, the associate secretary general of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops.

"Right from the very beginning, the representatives of the government have called on Canadians to express their opinions," he said. "And certainly, Canadian churches are among Canadian citizens."

Even if the churches are in compliance with tax laws --with or without an amendment to the marriage bill -- they could still be subject to a challenge under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. But this is unlikely to succeed, Mr. Broder said.

"It's hard to see how that would happen," he said. "For example, I'm not aware of any religious group having been challenged on their refusal to marry divorced people."

Churches rely heavily on their charitable status to encourage more frequent and more generous donations, according to Janet Epp Buckingham, the director of law and public policy for the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada.

"The loss the charitable tax status would really affect the ability of these ministries to carry out their functions," she said. "That includes a lot of things that are beneficial to society, like homeless ministries, outreach to the poor, and international development."

As a result, the Evangelical Fellowship favours an amendment to the bill guaranteeing that charitable status will not be challenged-- even though the group opposes the bill as a whole.

"If they're going to redefine marriage anyway, we would like to see these kinds of amendments in the bill," Ms. Buckingham said.

Bonnie Greene, a retired United Church official who specialized in tax issues, said the charitable status of churches is not under any immediate threat.

However, the regulations governing charities are greatly in need of updating, she said.

"In Canadian law, the definition of charitable activity is over 400 years old, based on a legal case in England," Ms. Greene said. "This is not good for democracy in Canada."

Suprise, suprise....
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
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Oklahoma, USA
Re: RE: Gay advocates fight c

Vanni Fucci said:
no1important said:
So some marriage commissioners got fired for not marrying same sex couples, so what? Its their job, and nothing to do with religion. If I don't do my job, I won't be working at my place of employment very long. In this enlightened modern era, if those marriage commissioners feel they can't do their job (which they are paid to do by tax payers) maybe they should find another form of employment.

This is because the Canadian Human Rights Act specifically states that services cannot be denied to a person based upon discriminatory criteria, including sexual orientation.

Doesn't it also say you cannot discriminate against someone based on religion?
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Proud to be in Alberta
If the churches charity status is revoked, what is next? Does the Legion lose its status because someone in government does not like war, and the Legion has a membership based on veterans? How about any other charitable organization? The Red Cross? If there is even any kind of move to have this status revoked, be prepared to have this issue tie up our court system for years to come.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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If the churches charity status is revoked, what is next?

Well, Blue...the plan is this:

We're all going to dress up and giant bird men and show up at your house demanding BBQ. Oh, and beer. Don't forget the beer.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Reverend Blair said:
If the churches charity status is revoked, what is next?

Well, Blue...the plan is this:

We're all going to dress up and giant bird men and show up at your house demanding BBQ. Oh, and beer. Don't forget the beer.

Well, as long as there is a plan and beer then everything will be okay.

Nice non response, though.
 

bluealberta

Council Member
Apr 19, 2005
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Re: RE: Gay advocates fight c

Reverend Blair said:
I left out the part where you get buggerred. G audience and all....

Sorry Rev, your lifestyle has no interest to me. Have fun though.

You still have not responded to the question, what happens to all the other charitable organizations? Do they all lose their status? If not, who does, who gets to keep them? And who decides?

It is funny that on an earlier discussion about this issue, you were one of the ones who said for sure that it would not happen, but it appears that you have changed your opinion, and that what I suggested would happen is starting to occur.

I asked on several threads and several times, why no one would categorically state that the churches would not lose their tax exempt, charitable status. Now that this is starting to come to the fore, it is very evident who actually has a hidden agenda, and parts of this agenda are starting to peek out of the crap that is hiding them.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
RE: Gay advocates fight c

You are searching, big blue...and sounding increasingly desperate. Are you that terrified of other peoples' sexual practices? Why? Did something happen when you were young? Maybe not so young...ther trauma seem recent. Have you spent some time in prison, Blue?
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
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pumpkin pie bungalow
Okay! lets not go down this road again, rev if you think bluealberta is homophobic, than say that, no need to make a reference about prison.

None of this really matters, in the end it will be as it should be. Full rights under the charter. What happens after that will no doubt be handled as they come up. I do believe this is a dead issue and a dead horse. What your going to have to do, is find a way to live it.
 

dave s

New Member
Jun 22, 2005
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well you better turn on cpac right now, C38 is no slam dunk. it was just stated that 70% of canadians don't want this (Majority of Canadians for Rev)

The Liberals are taking a whipping on it. Could be the end of them if they pass it.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
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Winnipeg
RE: Gay advocates fight c

It is a slam dunk though, Dave. You are quoting numbers that are less than truthful. You also don't seem top be aware that the Conservatives ar the ones being whipped. Why, just a few short seconds ago I whipped Stephen Fletcher's ass until even Chuck would have been proud.
 

dave s

New Member
Jun 22, 2005
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Re: RE: Gay advocates fight c

Reverend Blair said:
It is a slam dunk though, Dave. You are quoting numbers that are less than truthful. You also don't seem top be aware that the Conservatives ar the ones being whipped. Why, just a few short seconds ago I whipped Stephen Fletcher's ass until even Chuck would have been proud.

Yeah like he would trade words with someone like you. More rhetoric. Please stop your giving me a sore stomach from laughing so hard.