Fox's take on gas prices

[taxslave]

Venezuela seems capable of keeping the price down so I think it's a cop out to say it can't be done. The question is whether we want to go down that road just for cheap gas.

The ever rising price of fuel is causing all sorts of problems from increased food prices on up. People have a finite amount of money available and the more that goes to keeping a car on the road the less available to keep the economy rolling. Same with taxes. Take away disposable income and soon the only people working will be government employees. Tourism dependent areas really notice the difference.
Currently the price at the pump has no relation to the cost of production but is controlled by parasites trading on the futures market.
As long as Canada is an oil exporting nation the price we pay should not be influenced by world prices.

 

[Cannuck]

As long as Canada is an oil exporting nation the price we pay should not be influenced by world prices.

Tell that to the Americans and the Mexicans who we have signed a free trade agreement with.

 

[taxslave]

Tell that to the Americans and the Mexicans who we have signed a free trade agreement with.

I know that NFTA says we can't export for less than the domestic price but does it say we have to pay as much at home as export markets? If that is the case why does an American made car cost more in Canada than in the US? Or books?
I am also against exporting raw materials instead of refining here as much as possible.

 

[petros]

So you want an NEP?

 

[Cannuck]

I know that NFTA says we can't export for less than the domestic price but does it say we have to pay as much at home as export markets? If that is the case why does an American made car cost more in Canada than in the US? Or books?
I am also against exporting raw materials instead of refining here as much as possible.

Without getting weighed down with detail from the FTA, if a Canadian company's energy bill is half what and American company's is, that can be considered a subsidy if the difference is caused by some interference by the government.

 

[petros]

Price has nothing to do with it. Volume does.

 

[Cannuck]

Price has nothing to do with it. Volume does.

Perhaps it would help if you quoted what you were responding to so people could try and understand what you a talking about.

 

[petros]

It's called the "proportionality clause" in NAFTA.

 

[Cannuck]

It's called the "proportionality clause" in NAFTA.

Yes, the FTA has different clauses in it. Not sure what that has to do with subsidies though.

 

[petros]

Price is irrelevant.

 

[Cannuck]

Price is irrelevant.

Of course it's not.

 

[petros]

Have you read Chapter 6?

Subject to Annex 605, a Party may adopt or maintain a restriction otherwise justified under Articles XI:2(a) or XX(g), (i) or (j) of the GATT with respect to the export of an energy or basic petrochemical good to the territory of another Party, only if:

1. a) the restriction does not reduce the proportion of the total export shipments of the specific energy or basic petrochemical good made available to that other Party relative to the total supply of that good of the Party maintaining the restriction as compared to the proportion prevailing in the most recent 36month period for which data are available prior to the imposition of the measure, or in such other representative period on which the Parties may agree;
   
   b) the Party does not impose a higher price for exports of an energy or basic petrochemical good to that other Party than the price charged for such good when consumed domestically, by means of any measure such as licenses, fees, taxation and minimum price requirements. The foregoing provision does not apply to a higher price that may result from a measure taken pursuant to subparagraph (a) that only restricts the volume of exports; and
   c) the restriction does not require the disruption of normal channels of supply to that other Party or normal proportions among specific energy or basic petrochemical goods supplied to that other Party, such as, for example, between crude oil and refined products and among different categories of crude oil and of refined products.

 

[Cannuck]

Have you read Chapter 6?

Yes.

 

[petros]

And where in Chapter 6 does it say a lower price is a subsidy?

 

[Cannuck]

And where in Chapter 6 does it say a lower price is a subsidy?

It doesn't. Where in the bible does it say that pigs can fly?

 

[petros]

So where are you getting the false impression price has anything to do with it and that a lower rate is a subsidy?

 

[EagleSmack]

If that is the case why does an American made car cost more in Canada than in the US? Or books?

Isn't that because Canadian taxes are simply higher there?

 

[petros]

Correct!

 

[TenPenny]

Currently the price at the pump has no relation to the cost of production but is controlled by parasites trading on the futures market.

Isn't that how most food prices are controlled?

Coffee futures, orange juice futures, grain futures...

 

[Cannuck]

So where are you getting the false impression price has anything to do with it and that a lower rate is a subsidy?

Where are you getting the false impression that Chapter 6 of the FTA is what dictates the price of fuel