Well I guess the women are learning from the mistakes they were fed to believe...they are now commissioning an end to this mutilation.
Female Genital Mutilation
- Thread starter Libra Girl
- Start date
Well I guess the women are learning from the mistakes they were fed to believe...they are now commissioning an end to this mutilation.
Shut the hell up.
Wrong is wrong. The mutilation of a child is ok because it's another culture?
I am almost speechless - about all I can write is shut the hell up.
Pangloss.
This is a discussion forum. Please be tolerant of others. If everyone had the same opinion, the discussions would be boring.
If you disagree with someone then argue your point and crush them with your logic.
Well I guess the women are learning from the mistakes they were fed to believe...they are now commissioning an end to this mutilation.
Let's hope they are successful. Some programs have worked very well at stemming this practice in certain areas.
I believe that people do the best they can with what they know. Those women sincerely believe they are doing the best thing for their children when they circumcise them, just like parents over here think they are making the best decisions for their children. When they know better, they'll do better.
That's actually untrue. The origins of male circumcision for us non-jews come from a belief that it would make boys not masturbate. At the time (Victorian times), they believed that masturbation caused blindness and insanity, so if you stopped a boy from masturbating you'd save them from losing their sight or going mad. It became a cultural practice and we just sought reasons to legitimize it medically. Today we know there are certain health benefits and certain health risks to male circumcision. Neither side is significantly ahead of the other, so no physician group recommends routine male infant circumcision anymore. They've accepted it is a cultural practice, not a health one.
Female genital mutilation is similar in that respect. Many tribal groups believe that it will make the genitals cleaner. Some even believe the clitoris can poison a man or a baby as it is being born. We look at that and laugh, but not too long ago we thought removing a man's foreskin would stop him from masturbating. (CLEARLY doesn't work eh men?).
The origins of male circumcision came from biblical times, and were based on 'obeying god', not on cleanliness. It's been carried out in our countries for a host of reasons, and cleanliness was one of the reasons given, but it wasn't the basis. And if it's a good reason to circumcise a boy, then imagine how much cleaner a woman would be with no labia. Ironically, that is one of the reasons given in coutries which practise female circumcisions... cleanliness and health concerns.
EDIT*** I just read Tracy's post... sorry if I sound redundant.
Pangloss: I wasn't under the impression that I was passing the opinion that I agree with the practice, I just described it. You don't know me and yet you put words in my mouth, insult me, and I bore no malice toward anyone. I am not young and impatient, nor do I feel the need to change the world over to my own idealistic image. I try not to attack others, and am generally content to give my opinion, without attempting to change the others. What opinions I do express are always couched in terms of "if this were my country, would I want others to interfere in them". I don't believe it is my purpose in life to ride around on a white horse and dispense justice throughout the world. I left another forum because of people like yourself, who read half the post, form an opinion, and then come out all guns blazing. It wouldn't be so bad if you tried to understand what I had written, but you didn't, You just wanted someone to hate and vilify. I see tracy answered one of my questions, and now have learned something. Will finish this post with this, when I was young and had strong opinions I put my money where my mouth was, I joined up, bore arms, and didn't mouth off. Try it, you might like it.
I think that male circumcision is very different from female circumcision...in that it isn't as...mutalating. I don't know...we had a topic on male circumcision, and many people argued that male circumsicion was mutaltion. I take exception to that because I have my foreskin removed...and I don't feel like some crazy mutant!!! I am glad that it is gone. I think that, regardless of what the origins are, I feel that it is easier to take care of that area with it not there. I think the origins of the foreskin is to protect the penis so dirt would not get in at a time when man wore no clothes. We now wear clothes, and I believe that the foreskin now plays the opposite role, holding in pee and other liquids that can irritate the area and trap in bacteria...a situation made worse by the warming effect of being within clothing. So, I think it's a good thing to not have a foreskin...but I do agree that it is a very personal choice none the less. Regardless, I take offense to the idea that I am some kind of mutant or have been mutilated by having it cut off.
You do realize that all those exact same arguments apply to labia, right? And many of the women who had theirs removed as a baby probably feel exactly as you do, that it`s the normal, healthy way for their genitals to be.
At times its hard to get across the absolute horror you feel at the idea of a baby being strapped down and having bits of its genitals sliced off, sans anaesthesia, without using the word that best explains your view on it.
Its not meant as a judgement on the value of the person whos had it perfromed. Circumcised men look perfectly fine. But, Im sure plenty of the women out there look perfectly acceptable with their labia and clitorises snipped off too.
How could you miss what you never had? One thing for certain, if you waited until you were 30 to be circumcised, I can guarantee you would notice a fantastic difference. Of course by then, it would be too late to change back. I don't think you should concern yourself about being a freak though, there are millions of men in the same boat. Of course, it can't make men feel better about it, when the light suddenly goes on, and everybody suddenly says OOPS, sorry about that, we were wrong.
My mother grew up in a Nigerian village during the fifites where this practice was (and still is) very common. Her parents were missionaries, my grandfather their local doctor from overseas. My mother was forbidden to go into the village by her parents without the protection of her brothers, for the fact that the village women wanted to change her genitals to make her more like them. I often ask my mother about her experiences in Africa, and she says that it can be a terrible place for young women.
I cannot believe some of the opinions here, and am disappointed that I have been mistaken in my assessment of some members. Many of the 'reasons' put forward in this thread in order to explain Female Genital Mutilation are laughably naive at best, and callously disinformative at worst. To play 'Devils advocate' on such an emotive issue is neither clever or acceptable to many, and will certainly not help those that suffer still from this barbaric custom. Here, below, is the truth of the matter.
NIGERIA: Female Genital Mutilation
Lagos
FEMALE Genital Mutilation (FGM) is a barbaric tradition from the dark and ugly past of some societies in the country and elsewhere in the world which must, by universal acclaim, be abolished.
Communities that still practise FGM, described in some places as female circumcision (FC), justify the usually harmful custom by insisting that women whose genitals are not mutilated are promiscuous. The mutilation therefore involves the cutting out of all or most of the female external genitalia, especially the clitoris, which once done, extinguishes sexual sensitivity and pleasure.
FGM is also explained by some as a decree by the ancestors while others consider it a prerequisite for all girls that want to marry. When it is not seen as a puberty rite, it is rationalised as a way of making the female genitals aesthetically more pleasing or cleaner. Also, it is said to increase fertility of women as well as to ensure easy child birth.
As at press time, however, none of these justifications for FGM has been found to be tenable. The most frequently advanced reasons for the practice, that it makes women promiscuous, has, indeed, been the most faulted, since it is difficult to prove that the most wayward females are those that did not experience FGM.
What this means is that whereas none of the reasons being advocated for doing psychological and bodily harm to a large number of females, especially those between infancy and early adulthood, can hold water, evidence abounds that the practice has over the years led to untold psychological and physical misery and pain, suicides, permanent disabilities and the deaths of millions of countless females across the world where it has culturally been practised or where it has been exported to by immigrants from cultures where FGM is practised.
Because much of the FGM is done by largely untrained women with crude implements, no anaesthesia or anti-biotics, there is usually bleeding which sometimes leads to death or anaemia. Besides the direct consequences of bleeding, there is the ever present risk of infection, especially tetanus or HIV/AIDS.
This is because most times, the same knives used on female is used on as many as are brought for the ritual on a particular day or occasion, often without proper sterilisation. In the event of infection which leads to death or disability, the operators explain the disaster away as judgement from the gods for some imaginary wrong that the female may have committed.
The excruciating pain experienced by those who pass through the experience must be noted. The female genital mutilation, or circumcision, in most cases, is still being done by local women, without anaesthesia and sometimes with blunt kitchen knives and bare hands, while some other women forcefully holding down the victims. Besides these, there is also the grave danger of damage to other organs of the female.
It must be in recognition of this needless trauma and ever present danger of death and disability that females face in most parts of the world that an International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation was instituted.
Happily, the 2007 edition of this day was recently marked in Abuja, the nation's capital city by a banner parade organised by the Federal Ministry of Health in collaboration with the United Nations Fund for Population Activities (UNFPA) Nigeria.
On the occasion, attended by a large turn out of health personnel, National Youth Service Corps (NYSC) members, school children and law enforcement agencies, the Minister of State for Health, Halina Tayo Alao, commendably read the Federal Government's riot act to all those who still practise this better forgone tradition or culture, warning that henceforth, there would be zero tolerance for perpetrators of this act of violence against women, this violation of the fundamental human and reproductive rights of females.
The minister's pronouncements give cause for joy because it means that once government can muster the required political will to back up the pronouncement with concrete action, the millions of other females that would have been subjected to the butcher's knife, otherwise called FGM, would be saved the ordeal and, indeed, saved the irreversible damage or outright death that would have been their portion.
To ensure that the country is removed from the list of countries in the world where FGM is still practised, government must immediately spring into action with a legislation that would automatically abolish the practice. Even before the law comes into effect, a massive publicity and enlightenment programme must be mounted across the country, especially in the rural areas, to educate the people on the evils of FGM.
Local radio and television stations, print media, town criers, churches, mosques and other religious bodies and fora as well as health workers at all levels must be activated, sensitised and deployed towards waging this war against FGM. Part of the message must spell out sanctions to be imposed on all those caught practising FGM, whether they are the parents of the victims or the operators, as well rewards should be given to whoever reports any of such perpetrators.
Expectedly, no hospital or medical facility, whether private or public, must be seen or heard to practise such. Immediate withdrawal of the operating licence of such outfits as well as the prosecution of all those involved should be the swift penalty for all those involved.
The legislation to be put in place should shape the national policy on the total abolition of the practice while structures must be put in place to ensure that the legislation and policy are implemented to the letter.
Important as the weapon of coercion is in this matter of national and even global concern, the most critical factor in the war against FGM is education. Once the mostly literate rural populace are educated properly on the baselessness of the reasons for FGM and, indeed, of the grave dangers in continuing with it, they would see the light and millions of hapless females would be saved the ordeal of FGM.
The machinery for this anti-FGM campaign blitz must be put in motion immediately because every day lost surely means several souls lost.
© 2007 Daily Champion. All rights reserved.URL: http://allafrica.com/stories/200702261168.htmlDate: 2/26/2007
NIGERIA: Female Genital Mutilation
Lagos
FEMALE Genital Mutilation (FGM) is a barbaric tradition from the dark and ugly past of some societies in the country and elsewhere in the world which must, by universal acclaim, be abolished.
Communities that still practise FGM, described in some places as female circumcision (FC), justify the usually harmful custom by insisting that women whose genitals are not mutilated are promiscuous. The mutilation therefore involves the cutting out of all or most of the female external genitalia, especially the clitoris, which once done, extinguishes sexual sensitivity and pleasure.
FGM is also explained by some as a decree by the ancestors while others consider it a prerequisite for all girls that want to marry. When it is not seen as a puberty rite, it is rationalised as a way of making the female genitals aesthetically more pleasing or cleaner. Also, it is said to increase fertility of women as well as to ensure easy child birth.
As at press time, however, none of these justifications for FGM has been found to be tenable. The most frequently advanced reasons for the practice, that it makes women promiscuous, has, indeed, been the most faulted, since it is difficult to prove that the most wayward females are those that did not experience FGM.
What this means is that whereas none of the reasons being advocated for doing psychological and bodily harm to a large number of females, especially those between infancy and early adulthood, can hold water, evidence abounds that the practice has over the years led to untold psychological and physical misery and pain, suicides, permanent disabilities and the deaths of millions of countless females across the world where it has culturally been practised or where it has been exported to by immigrants from cultures where FGM is practised.
Because much of the FGM is done by largely untrained women with crude implements, no anaesthesia or anti-biotics, there is usually bleeding which sometimes leads to death or anaemia. Besides the direct consequences of bleeding, there is the ever present risk of infection, especially tetanus or HIV/AIDS.
This is because most times, the same knives used on female is used on as many as are brought for the ritual on a particular day or occasion, often without proper sterilisation. In the event of infection which leads to death or disability, the operators explain the disaster away as judgement from the gods for some imaginary wrong that the female may have committed.
The excruciating pain experienced by those who pass through the experience must be noted. The female genital mutilation, or circumcision, in most cases, is still being done by local women, without anaesthesia and sometimes with blunt kitchen knives and bare hands, while some other women forcefully holding down the victims. Besides these, there is also the grave danger of damage to other organs of the female.
It must be in recognition of this needless trauma and ever present danger of death and disability that females face in most parts of the world that an International Day of Zero Tolerance to Female Genital Mutilation was instituted.
Happily, the 2007 edition of this day was recently marked in Abuja, the nation's capital city by a banner parade organised by the Federal Ministry of Health in collaboration with the United Nations Fund for Population Activities (UNFPA) Nigeria.
On the occasion, attended by a large turn out of health personnel, National Youth Service Corps (NYSC) members, school children and law enforcement agencies, the Minister of State for Health, Halina Tayo Alao, commendably read the Federal Government's riot act to all those who still practise this better forgone tradition or culture, warning that henceforth, there would be zero tolerance for perpetrators of this act of violence against women, this violation of the fundamental human and reproductive rights of females.
The minister's pronouncements give cause for joy because it means that once government can muster the required political will to back up the pronouncement with concrete action, the millions of other females that would have been subjected to the butcher's knife, otherwise called FGM, would be saved the ordeal and, indeed, saved the irreversible damage or outright death that would have been their portion.
To ensure that the country is removed from the list of countries in the world where FGM is still practised, government must immediately spring into action with a legislation that would automatically abolish the practice. Even before the law comes into effect, a massive publicity and enlightenment programme must be mounted across the country, especially in the rural areas, to educate the people on the evils of FGM.
Local radio and television stations, print media, town criers, churches, mosques and other religious bodies and fora as well as health workers at all levels must be activated, sensitised and deployed towards waging this war against FGM. Part of the message must spell out sanctions to be imposed on all those caught practising FGM, whether they are the parents of the victims or the operators, as well rewards should be given to whoever reports any of such perpetrators.
Expectedly, no hospital or medical facility, whether private or public, must be seen or heard to practise such. Immediate withdrawal of the operating licence of such outfits as well as the prosecution of all those involved should be the swift penalty for all those involved.
The legislation to be put in place should shape the national policy on the total abolition of the practice while structures must be put in place to ensure that the legislation and policy are implemented to the letter.
Important as the weapon of coercion is in this matter of national and even global concern, the most critical factor in the war against FGM is education. Once the mostly literate rural populace are educated properly on the baselessness of the reasons for FGM and, indeed, of the grave dangers in continuing with it, they would see the light and millions of hapless females would be saved the ordeal of FGM.
The machinery for this anti-FGM campaign blitz must be put in motion immediately because every day lost surely means several souls lost.
© 2007 Daily Champion. All rights reserved.URL: http://allafrica.com/stories/200702261168.htmlDate: 2/26/2007
Hmmm. The conversation ended up spanning a lot of issues. The comparisons of FMC, and MC, are the ones which stand out the most in my mind. That strikes me as when people were explaining the paralles between the two 'reasonings' to illustrate that neither is right. I can't really think of any one post where anyone argued FOR FMC, or FGM. Well, unless you want tocount my idea of making it a voluntary thing at adulthood, in a hospital setting... but that's because I really believe, much like men are hesitant to be circumcised once grown, women won't want to put themselves through it either, and it gives time for education campaigns to get the message through.
http://fgmnetwork.org/news/show_news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1171886808&archive=&template=
By Lule Joseph
Despite visible progress in the battle against female circumcision (genital mutilation), the practice is yet to go away. In some rural areas, victims continue to painfully nurse wounds from the cultural practice that has affected the physical integrity of women and children.
The right to life and physical integrity are considered core human rights. These rights, while often associated with the right to freedom from torture, encompass a number of broader human rights principles, including the inherent dignity of the person, the right to liberty and security of person, and the right to privacy. Acts of violence that result in death or severe bodily harm obviously interfere with a person’s rights to life, physical integrity and privacy.
Physical integrity is the right to make independent decisions in matters affecting one’s own body. An unauthorised invasion or alteration of a person’s body represents a disregard for that fundamental right.
Female genital mutilation violates the right to life in the event that death results from the ritual. Since the practice is premised on the notion that women’s bodies are inherently flawed and require correction, it does not respect women’s inherent dignity. Respect for women’s dignity implies acceptance of their physical qualities – natural appearance of their genitalia and their normal sexual function. A decision to alter those qualities should not be imposed upon a woman or girl for the purpose of reinforcing socially defined roles.
Similarly, because female genital mutilation is an intervention into one of the most intimate aspects of a woman’s life, her sexuality, the practice violates her privacy rights. It is also a form of violence against women because it may be against the victim’s will or be carried out before she has attained age of consent (18 years).
Continues in link.
Very nicely written
"Physical integrity is the right to make independent decisions in matters affecting one’s own body. An unauthorised invasion or alteration of a person’s body represents a disregard for that fundamental right."
I'd have written this one this way though....
"Since the practice is premised on the notion that... bodies are inherently flawed and require correction, it does not respect [an individual's] inherent dignity. Respect for [individual] dignity implies acceptance of their physical qualities – natural appearance of their genitalia and their normal sexual function."
"Physical integrity is the right to make independent decisions in matters affecting one’s own body. An unauthorised invasion or alteration of a person’s body represents a disregard for that fundamental right."
I'd have written this one this way though....
"Since the practice is premised on the notion that... bodies are inherently flawed and require correction, it does not respect [an individual's] inherent dignity. Respect for [individual] dignity implies acceptance of their physical qualities – natural appearance of their genitalia and their normal sexual function."
This topic is always the same. If you approach it honestly, then people will accuse you of supporting it despite the fact that those words were never written. I was hoping that wouldn't happen here, but should have known better.