Good summary. Four years of division and dysfunction, six years of stability and prosperity, then four years of struggling with a ferocious depression, exacerbated by reparations, leading to the rise of tyranny.
Euroscepticism in Germany: Silent no more
- Thread starter Andem
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One of the best cartoons ever. Thanks DaS. And I'm qualified to judge..................mehhhhhhhhhhh.8O
It was foreseen and then made real. War is the global economy. The planning never stops.
Major problems within the EU has was well known to all politicians and bankers. No mechanism to penalize countries that were in a continuous and ever growing deficit. EU as a whole failed to act. It works in a growing economy to a point, but when a slowdown or a recession occurs then it is matter of time before the Piper calls for payment.
Look to Cyprus- a substantial portion of their economy was based upon banking with the majority of funds being funneled from Russia to be laundered then reinvested in Russia or other countries as clean money. And no one knew. Right.
Greece was one, Italy is another. Yet Italy loses enough taxes to significantly lower their deficit. The same applies to Greece.
The other is over regulation by Brussels.
Next would be Foreign Policy where one member can block the Foreign Policy for the EU as a whole. Each country still has their own but it leads to conflicts.
You can refer to Poland Parliament in the 16th century for an example where unanimity was a major block. It lead to inaction, corruption and failure within the State.
General sejm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Voting
Until the end of the 16th century, unanimity was not required and majority voting predominated.[25][35] Later, with the rise of the magnates' power, the unanimity principle was enforced with the szlachta privilege of liberum veto (from the Latin: "I freely forbid").[37] From the second half of the 17th century, the liberum veto was used to paralyze sejm proceedings and brought the Commonwealth to the brink of collapse.[35][38] The growing power of sejmiks also contributed to the inefficiency of the sejm, as binding instructions from sejmiks could prevent some deputies from being able to support certain provisions.[35][39] The pro-majority-voting party almost disappeared in the 17th century, and majority voting was preserved only at confederated sejms (sejm rokoszowy, konny, konfederacyjny).[25] The liberum veto was finally abolished by the Constitution of May 3, 1791.[40
I'm not going to argue with you about things that are completely off topic, but I will agree with the above assertion.
But the same goes for the unelected commissioners, such as the former maoist and current unelected president of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso. Or Catherine Ashton, a woman who has questionable ties herself and has never been elected for public office in her entire life -- current "Foreign Minister" for the European Union. What about Barroso's vice president, Siim Kallas, former member of the Supreme Council of the Soviet Union, a regime responsible for countless crimes against freedom and human rights.
These are only the tip of the iceberg. Just a couple of days ago, the president of the ECB "ordered" the Cypriot prime minister to gag his parliament from criticizing the ECB.
Thank you very much, but I will fight for democracy on this continent regardless of whether you have prejudices against Germany or any former republic.
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I freakin' LOVE Germany. Ich wohnte in West Berlin vier Jahre in achtzig Jahrzehn, und ich reise jedes Jahr in Berlin, Bayern, und oft in anderes Ortes in Deutschland.
While it is true that the EU is indirect democracy, in the sense that many of the EU officials are appointed by elected officials rather than directly elected, I'd note this is hardly unique. In all Parliamentary systems, the Prime Minister (by whatever name the country uses for the position) is not directly elected either. Nor is the U.S. President, though the election of the Pres is arguably more direct than the election of the PM or Kanzler.
The EU is far from perfect, and could use a good restructuring and/or a number of adjustments. And as far as I'm concerned, if the people of Europe want to scrap it, or if any member country wants to bail, that's entirely up to them. I don't get, and don't want, a vote. I would simply argue that the EU has been good for Europe economically, has provided a number of freedoms previously unavailable, and may be largely responsible for the fact that the territory of the EU has been at peace for 68 years now, which I believe is an unprecedented stretch.
Schön. Ich wohne auch in ehemaligen West-Berlin seit 8 Jahren und reise auch mindestens 1x im Jahr nach Oberbayern.
I will concede that the European Union may have originally had that intent, it has become ruled by unelected commissioners which have become even further enabled to do what they want by ignoring national referendums and using sneaky tactics to amend treaties so that they now become self-amending treaties. This is nothing more than a blank cheque to spend as much as they want and without any rules.
These people are completely immune to the ballot box. There is no way to remove these people as there would be in a traditional parliamentary democracy.
As I said above, the referendums that were had (France, Netherlands and Ireland) were completely ignored by the Commission and its president. Instead of respecting the clear referendums in these countries, the commission forced it (virtually unchanged) through as the Lisbon Treaty. The people across Europe were clearly against this European Constitution.
The new European Stability Mechanism is the last scam the EU is trying to impose on member states. This is exactly why the new party, Alternative für Deutschland exists. The Czech Republic was the last hold-out and they were strong-armed into signing it.
Germany doesn't want the Euro anymore, just as a majority didn't want it to begin with. It's gotten out of hand just as the leading economists predicted before the currency was introduced. Support for the breakup of this union will grow, and I'm already involved myself both in the UK and in Germany.
The founders of this new party are NOT politicians. They are some of the brightest and leading economists in Germany and across Europe. Some were even advisers to the current and several past chancellors. Just look at the second half of their homepage and randomly Google anybody on that list.
Well, if you succeed, I hope it doesn't lead to war. I'd hate to have to find a new place to holiday.
Most of all, if you succeed in seceding (write THAT three times fast!) and it leads to war, I pray to sense and reason we stay out of it this time.
Most of all, if you succeed in seceding (write THAT three times fast!) and it leads to war, I pray to sense and reason we stay out of it this time.
War will happen if the Euro continues. This currency union is not economically viable. The sooner we are done with the Euro and the EU, the faster we can all become friends again and thus avert war.
These credit-debtor situations have existed in the past and have never had favourable outcomes. That is, northern Europe being the perpetual creditors and southern being the debtors. This isn't even regarding individuals but more banks and governments.
These credit-debtor situations have existed in the past and have never had favourable outcomes. That is, northern Europe being the perpetual creditors and southern being the debtors. This isn't even regarding individuals but more banks and governments.
War is inevitable. The real power of Europe insists the real power of the west insists and for very evil but logical banking reasons.
Follow the trends in terms of societal expectations on entitlements... It's absolutely clear on the differences geographically
It sure filled a lot of deep pockets for a failure. Oh you mean the peace and harmony stuff.
Here's what I fear.
Germany pulls out of the EU, no longer willing to "prop up those failures in southern Europe." The vote to exit the EU is won by good, decent, intelligent Europsceptics like yourself, allied ON THIS ISSUE ONLY with nationalists, racists, and neo-Nazis, whom you despise and would never tolerate, EXCEPT ON THIS ONE ISSUE.
Another deep recession hits. People start casting around for someone to blame. The right-wingers start muttering about "non-Germans." Quoting Merkel that "multiculturalism has been a failure," the Bundestag starts passing legislation about education, language, &c. that makes Muslims feel oppressed. Street violence against Muslims, blacks, Turks, whatever. A couple of hothead Islamic radical groups light off a couple of bombs in Hamburg and Berlin.
Some nutbars start talking about how you wouldn't be in this situation if you had "traditional Germany," with it's traditional ways. . . and traditional borders. Including Danzig. Including Alsace-Lorraine.
The right-wing asswits that you have lent credibility to by joining them on the exit from the EU start promising solutions, mostly based on stopping foreigners and non-whites from "exploiting hard-working Germans."
Likely? Maybe not. Impossible?
You tell me.
If you want to go on a probability list then pick France and Hungary to be at or near the top of the list. France in my opinion would be at or near the top.
The British tried warning the pro-Euro people about the dangers of the Euro when it was introduced over ten years ago, but they merely dismissed us as "bad Europeans" and they told us that they will power ahead and we will fall behind as a result.
I bet they all feel a bit stupid now.
Here are some great quotes from UKIP leader Nigel Farage:
"You have the charisma of a damp rag, and the appearance of a low-grade bank clerk. And the question that I want to ask, [...] that we're all going to ask, is "Who are you ?". I'd never heard of you. Nobody in Europe had ever heard of you. I would like to ask you, President, who voted for you, and what mechanism... (cue howls of outrage from other MEPs) oh, I know democracy isn't popular with you lot, and what mechanism the people of Europe have to remove you ? Is this European democracy ? Well, I sense, I sense though that you are competent and capable and dangerous, and I have no doubt in your intention, to be the quiet assassin of European democracy, and of the European nation states. You appear to have a loathing for the very concept of the existence of nation states - perhaps that's because you come from Belgium, which is pretty much a non-country. But since you took over, we've seen Greece reduced to nothing more than a protectorate. Sir, you have no legitimacy in this job at all, and I can say with confidence that I speak on behalf of the majority of British people in saying: we don't know you, we don't want you, and the sooner you're put out to grass, the better."
- His speech in the European parliament in which he tells unelected European Council President Herman Van Rompuy (or Rumpy Pumpy as the British call him) that he has the charisma of a damp rag, 24 February 2010. It wasn't the first and it wasn't the last time he sticks it to the European parliament.
"And what is the reaction of the British politcal class? Well the Lib Dems, still think that the Euro is a success! I don't quiet think where Cleggy gets this from, I don't know. Prehaps he is cosidering an alternative career, as a stand up comedian, once he's out of politics."
- Another segment of a speech held in a UKIP meeting on 21 February 2012. Nigel Farage explains the reactions of Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem politicians on the failing Euro currency.
"When people stand up and talk about the great success that the EU has been, I'm not sure anybody saying it really believes it themselves anymore."
- Speech in the European Parliment, 9 May 2012.
“The EU is mired in deep structural crisis. Greece, Portugal and Ireland cannot survive inside the Euro.”
- Segment from an article in the New York Times newspaper, 18 May 2012.
"This is taking place inside Europe. This is taking place inside a once great nation (Greece). The nation that invented democracy. We are on the edge of total social breakdown. And frankly, as far as the euro is concerned and the austerity measures are concerned, the medicine is killing the patient."
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"The euro Titanic has now hit the iceberg - and there simply aren't enough lifeboats to go round."
- Segment from a speech held in the European Parliament in Strasbourg, 13 June 2012
"Basically, Herman van Rompuy wants the European Union to become a debt union, which may be acceptable to some of the southern countries who are effectively bust. To the northern countries, it is not."
- Segment from an article on the UKIP website, 29 June 2012.
"Once again, I challenge the Prime Minister to have an open debate with me on why he believes we must stay part of this failing, corrupt EU. The future of our nation is at stake. Mr Cameron, you have my phone number."
- Quote by Nigel Farage on an article written by himself in the Telegraph, 6th July 2012.
"As you are well aware, the last time the people of this country were given a say on membership of the European Union was back in 1975. This must have been a factor in your thinking when, in 2007, you gave a “cast-iron guarantee” to hold a referendum if you became Prime Minister. Since that promise, however, your message on the issue has been confusing and misleading. You say the time is not right but refuse to clarify when the time will be right. You believe that leaving would not be in our best interests and an in/out referendum is flawed because it offers a “single choice”. In last week’s Sun poll, almost 70 per cent of voters said they would like a referendum. In the same poll, a clear majority said they would like to leave the EU and yet your plans would deny them that opportunity. I believe the British people, along with many of your own backbench MPs, want and deserve a straight in/out choice in a referendum. I propose a public debate between us where we can put our respective cases forward. My challenge to you is an open and honest one and I hope you will afford me, and the people of this country, a proper say on the matter."
- Letter from Nigel Farage that was hand delivered to 10 Downing Street by Nigel Farage himself, challenging the Prime Minister to an open debate on the EU, 16 July 2012.
"We know the costs of Europe. What are the benefits?”
- Quote by Nigel Farage on an article in The Sun, 1 August 2012.
“Rather than bring peace and harmony, the EU will cause insurgency and violence.”
- Quote by Nigel Farage on an article in the Zimbabwe Independent, regarding the EU winning the Nobel Peace Prize, 19 October 2012.
"We wouldn't want to be like the Swiss, would we? That would be awful! We'd be rich!"
- Quote by Nigel Farage on David Cameron's speech on Britain's relationship with the European Union, 23 January 2013. Cameron warned that Britain "would become like Switzerland" if it left the EU.
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The UK despite it's distance from the EU is in no better economic shape. The EU is a perfect excuse for the UK debacle however. Of course someone might mention the bankers.