English Defence League clash with police over new mosque

[CDNBear]

It's all a mater of interpretation and understanding. In the end, it's best to read the Qur'an for yourself rather than just follow a Mullah, since even the Mullah's will disagree with one another even more than the general Muslim population does, who tend to just accept the majority or popular interpretation without further questioning.

Well said.

,but i guess Qur'an is very hard to interpretate and at some point you need some one or some book to understand. and that is that reason we are here .

And here lies the problem. Letting others think for you leads to more problems then it solves...

Hence why Islam is despised in many countries and growing.

 

[mamorab]

It makes a monumental difference, esepcially when you speak of Jesus, Mohammed and so on. You have to understand time lines. At what point in history did each of these religions spawn.

By reading your post, you would think that Islam was first. That couldn't be any more further from the truth if you launched it into space.

I didn't have one. I just wanted to be sure I was about to poke a huge hole in the religious beliefs of someone who may or may not be a Muslim.

If you are, I find it humourous and of course not surprising, you haven't a clue about the history of your chosen faith. It is a common issue with many of the devout, be they whatever faith.

Jesus was not, as you put it "a son of the middle east, the land of Muslim majority". That is a misleading statement. Jesus was Jewish. His followers were Christian. It wasn't until some 570 {Approx) years later, that Mo brought Islam out from under it's rock.

As Christianity encompassed Pagan rituals and rights, Mo thought stealing some of the history from Christians and Jews was a good way to win converts, as did the Christians.

i think we lost it some where there in my reply . i said mohammad was sent to humanity 1000 years later . After jesus , Noah was first as a messanger, then ibrahim then david , then mouses, then jesus , and after all came Mohammad. i ment jesus is was the son of the middle east which is NOW a land with muslim majority who are protecting what he believed in , protecting his church and living a side with those who believe in him and as well these muslims belive in him.

 

[CDNBear]

i think we lost it some where there in my reply . i said mohammad was sent to humanity 1000 years later . After jesus , Noah was first as a messanger, then ibrahim then david , then mouses, then jesus , and after all came Mohammad. i ment jesus is was the son of the middle east which is NOW a land with muslim majority who are protecting what he believed in , protecting his church and living a side with those who believe in him and as well these muslims belive in him.

Cool, just so long as you know what, where and when...

Have a great day.

 

[mamorab]

Cool, just so long as you know what, where and when...

Have a great day.

Great day to you too ....

 

[coldstream]

Jesus is a descendent of Isaac , Jacob and Ibrahim. also Mohammad is a descendent of Ibrahim , i believe that makes them related by blood. not also that , Jesus was called the Nazarian because he was born in a village called Nazareth in Palestine , close to journalism, which makes Jesus a son of the middle east, the land of Muslim majority . Muslims love and respect Jesus, they believe in him , just as they believe in Mohammad , i also know that Muslim never say Jesus and not say Peace Be Upon him afterward as a sign of respect and believe. Muslims also believe that Jesus was not crucified , neither tortured , he was lifted to heaven. They also believe that Jesus was unable to complete his message to humanity and the Christianity was not delivered properly for a various obstacle he faced during his mission. .

This is the reference to Ismael and to Isaac in Genesis. The Qur'an is filled with mistakes of people and events, if you use the Old Testament as the standard, and which out dates the Qur'an by at least 1500 years. It also invents a completely new history for Christ, 500 years after it had been set down in the New Testament gospels.

And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. Genesis 17

It was with Isaac who God demanded a sacrifice of a son from Abraham, and it was the generational issue of Isaac, amongst them David, Mary and Jesus.. with whom God established His covenant.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Yes, that must be it, they're all racist, no justification, they just want to hate someone and the nasty Muslims are it today.

It doesn't matter that they feel alienated in their own country. That their rights are being infringed on. It doesn't matter that Police can not enforce the smallest of aspects of the law without threats of violence, being dragged before tribunals and otherwise being branded.

No, none of this matters, they're all just racists...oh wait.

Muslim isn't a race, it's a religion morons.

And before anyone asks, I've read the Quran, and for the very reason as has been stated in this thread, know thy enemy.

Something wicked this way comes.

Sorry, Bear, but this has all of the hallmarks of racism. I know that racism is an awkward word, but ethnicism is even more awkward. Or perhaps you would prefer that the term "religious bigot" be used instead. I really don't see much difference in this anti-Muslim ranting and the hatred that existed between Protestants and Catholics in Northern Ireland. I very much suspect that if the EDL ever got its way it would switch its target to other religious and ethnic minorities in Britain. To a true bigot society can never be pure enough.

 

[Machjo]

This is the reference to Ismael and to Isaac in Genesis. The Qur'an is filled with mistakes of people and events, if you use the Old Testament as the standard, and which out dates the Qur'an by at least 1500 years. It also invents a completely new history for Christ, 500 years after it had been set down in the New Testament gospels.

It was with Isaac who God demanded a sacrifice of a son from Abraham, and it was the generational issue of Isaac, amongst them David, Mary and Jesus.. with whom God established His covenant.

Yes,the Qur'an contradicts the Bible on that. Muslims argue have presented various theories, the most common being that the Bible may have changed over time, with some errors having crept into it. At that point, it becomes a matter of Faith since it can't be scientifically proven either way.

 

[Machjo]

Well said.

And here lies the problem. Letting others think for you leads to more problems then it solves...

Hence why Islam is despised in many countries and growing.

Very good point. If we consider that some Rabis ave adopted the Christian faith, and that some Christian scholars seminarians have adopted Islam, and that even some Mullahs and other Muslim scholars have adopted the Baha'i Faith, and that I wouldn't be surprised if a few Muslim scholars have also converted to the Christian Faith or the Jewish Faith, then a Muslim who should blindly follow his scholars could end up anywhere seeing that religious scholars in any religion are usually all over the board in their beliefs. That's why it's best in the end to just read your sacred texts for yourself and judge for yourself with the mind God gave you.

 

[Machjo]

And as for racism, I wouldn't be surprised if the EDL is racist. However, within this context there is no such evidence and the issue here is not racial, but rather religious prejudice.

Yes, I agree that those harbouring religious prejudices are likely to harbour racial ones too, but there can be exceptions and we all know what happens when we ass-u-me.

 

[coldstream]

Yes,the Qur'an contradicts the Bible on that. Muslims argue have presented various theories, the most common being that the Bible may have changed over time, with some errors having crept into it. At that point, it becomes a matter of Faith since it can't be scientifically proven either way.

It's amazing how consistent the Old Testament has remained when compared to archeological finds of the Torah and ancient prophetic texts. In most cases not a word or punctuation mark has changed from the modern.. amazing given the travails and transience of the Jewish people.. and that it was likely carried as an oral tradition during some of their persecutions and enslavements.

The only thing that changed it was Muhammad's fevered visions and scribblings in that cave. :roll:

 

[Machjo]

It's amazing how consistent the Old Testament has remained when compared to archeological finds of the Torah and ancient prophetic texts. In most cases not a word or punctuation mark has changed from the modern.. especially given the travails and transience of the Jewish people.. and thatit was likely carried as an oral tradition during some of their persecutions and enslavement.

The only thing that changed it was Muhammad's fevered visions and scribblings in that cave.

Even Christian scholars themselves acknowledge various versions of the Bible. You are correct in that the differences between versions are few, but they are there. That alone proves at least the possibility that there are other differences.

That's not to say we should question the overall reliability of the Bible, but still have to accept that the possibility is there.