Economist says Tories gave him incomplete platform

KanBob

Nominee Member
Jan 11, 2006
71
0
6
Alberta
Re: RE: Economist says Tories gave him incomplete platform

FiveParadox said:
In this case, I am at a loss as to which document in which to vest my trust. The first is dated for January 15, and with a timestamp for early evening; the second is dated for the same, but with no timestamp. lol, this is perhaps a matter of chronology.

I would think it is fair to say that the Conservative press release came second. In the Liberal release they point to the health care committment and the 'fiscal imbalance' that he did not cost. These two issues are directly referenced and specifically addressed in the press release. I think both responses seem pretty straightforward and without spin.
 

nomore

Electoral Member
Jan 5, 2006
109
0
16
#juan said:
They will fail to mention that it was paid down on the backs of overtaxed working people, the deprived military and downloading the healthcare costs to the Provinces. Certainly not by curtailing waste and embezzlement.

On who's back was the debt run up??? I suppose the Liberals could just have continued to pile up debt like Mulroney until the debt was 75 or 80 cents on every tax dollar but it had to stop somewhere. The ultimate blame for the debt rests squarely on the tories. The so-called Liberal scandals make up less than 2% of the budget, and a hell of a lot less than the tory debt.

You have got to be kidding me! You seriously need to do some research. During Trudeau's term debt increased by somwhere around 1300%. The Mulroney government was left with this, as well as a huge multi-billion dollar deficit.

On top of that, they were put in power during a recession, in which as KanBob mentioned, interest rates, and inflation were increasing at an alarming rate. Most of the work for debt reduction and defict reduction, was put in place by the Mulroney government.

Many will also argue, that the way Canada got rid of the deficit had nothing to do with proper fiscal mangement, and actually had more to do with the interest rate decline of the 90's, and increased investment by the U.S. Revenues then came up as we emerged from the recession. Not to mention the shift of funding away from the provinces, and high taxes.

So to blame the debt on the Tories is one of the most ludicrist statements I have heard, since most of the framework for eliminating the deficit was put in place by the Tories to begin with.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Trudeau


"Some people consider Trudeau's economic policies to have been a weak point. Inflation and unemployment marred much of his term. When Trudeau took office in 1968 Canada had a debt of $18 billion, when he left office in 1984, that debt stood at $200 billion - an increase of 1200%."
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
I just get a little frustrated with Liberals who pretend that everything was squeaky clean, and then Mulroney took over.
 

nomore

Electoral Member
Jan 5, 2006
109
0
16
Re: RE: Economist says Tories gave him incomplete platform

Jay said:
I just get a little frustrated with Liberals who pretend that everything was squeaky clean, and then Mulroney took over.

That seems to be the case with the majority of Liberals I have talked to, and have met. They regularly distort reality and attempt to pass it off as fact. As can be seen in this election campain, and the last.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
nomore, as well as anyone else who would assert that the Liberal Party of Canada had been virtually solely responsible for the debt in its present form:

Please keep in mind that according to the records of Parliament and the Ministry of Finance, the Conservative Government of Canada accrued more debt than the Liberal Government of Canada, under the leaderships of the Rt. Hon. Brian Mulroney and the Rt. Hon. Pierre Trudeau, respectively.

:!: Edited, Supplemental Note

On another note, I just reached 600 posts! Whee!
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
1,947
2
38
www.kdm.ca
People need to stop being played by the party game and recognize that both the libs and the cons have while the governing party made correct and incorrect decisions.

Harper and his right-wingnuts are the first truly regressive backwater party to have any level of power federally and this is why NOW is such an important time for the future of Canadiana. Harper may have learned he has to act the centrist, and govern like a centrist to have power, but he cleverly plans to allow his party's roots to come forth once he has secured power. Harper is an opportunist driven by a desire for power and his pro-american right-wing ideology.
 

Toro

Senate Member
Speaking of the Liberals and Mulroney...

The Liberal legacy

Before Christmas, I shared the general opinion that the upcoming federal election would produce approximately the same result as the last one: a Liberal minority that might or might not be large enough to govern with the support of the NDP. But events since Christmas suggest that the Liberals – who have been in power since 1993 – will no longer be forming a government after January 23.

When the Liberals under Jean Chrétien won power in 1993, they did so with a platform that worried me a bit: they campaigned against the GST and NAFTA and they didn’t seem to be overly concerned with the federal deficit (which was then around 5% of GDP, and had been fluctuating around that level for over 15 years). And they also seemed to be extremely upset with John Crow, Governor of the Bank of Canada, who had – at the cost of an admittedly severe recession – finally managed to get inflation under control.

I was only a bit worried because they had given themselves enough wiggle room to reverse themselves on the GST and NAFTA. If they couldn’t get the US to negotiate a ‘better deal’, then they’d leave NAFTA alone. And if they couldn’t come up with a better way to generate tax revenues than the GST, then it would stay. Unsurprisingly, both NAFTA and the GST are still with us, and a good thing, too. And even though the Liberals did indulge in a petty exercise of instantaneous gratification by not giving John Crow another term as Governor, Gordon Theissen and David Dodge have maintained his policy of inflation targeting. Also a good thing.

Not all of the Liberals’ macroeconomic policy successes amounted to deciding to not reverse Mulroney-era policy initiatives, however. In the spring of 1995, then-Finance Minister Paul Martin announced a series of spending cuts and tax increases designed to eliminate the federal deficit, and the federal government has run a surplus continually since 1997. If Canadian representatives to international economic conferences (G7, OECD, etc) have been insufferably smug over the past few years, it is perhaps a pardonable sin.

In retrospect, the decision to finally deal with the federal deficit was less courageous than it appeared at the time. Credit ratings agencies had already started to downgrade Canadian federal bonds, and there were rumours of bond issues that had difficulty finding buyers and of IMF rescue packages. But it is to the Liberals’ credit that they decided to do the right thing, and risk the electoral consequences. Again, in retrospect, those risks were in fact quite small: the opposition parties were fragmented, and none were in a position to use the dissatisfaction with budget cuts to dislodge the Liberals in the 1997 election.

So here we are in 2006: the largest industrialised economy with surpluses in its government and current account balances, unemployment rates at 30-year lows, and low and stable inflation. As far as macroeconomic policy goes, the Liberals would have been more than justified in expecting a crushing majority next Monday based on the slogan: ‘More of the same’.

But that just goes to show you how important macroeconomic policy is in determining who wins elections.

Worthwhile Canadian Initiative
 

nomore

Electoral Member
Jan 5, 2006
109
0
16
Re: RE: Economist says Tories gave him incomplete platform

FiveParadox said:
nomore, as well as anyone else who would assert that the Liberal Party of Canada had been virtually solely responsible for the debt in its present form:

Please keep in mind that according to the records of Parliament and the Ministry of Finance, the Conservative Government of Canada accrued more debt than the Liberal Government of Canada, under the leaderships of the Rt. Hon. Brian Mulroney and the Rt. Hon. Pierre Trudeau, respectively.

:!: Edited, Supplemental Note

On another note, I just reached 600 posts! Whee!

I was not putting all the blame on Trudeau, I was simply stating the reasons why the debt was so high in the first place. And it wasn't the Tories.

You can say that the debt increased more during the Conservative term, but you have to look at why. In this case it was the Multi-Billion dollar deficit (left by Trudeau). Not to mention the poor ecconomic situation at that time.

There is no way you could have expected the Mulroney government to erase the deficit in a day, and begin to pay off the debt, so they did the best they could at the time, hence why a lot of the framework for eliminating the deficit was put in place by them.