Demons and Evil

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
55,716
7,150
113
Washington DC
For this discussion about Demons, how would you define evil?
I define "evil" as immorality, which by my definition means "reducing humanity and human dignity, or acting to block an increase in humanity or human dignity." "Humanity" and "human dignity" you'll have to define for yourself, as must each of us.

As far as "demons," they are orcs. Equally "evil" and equally fictional.
 

Count_Lothian

Time Out
Apr 6, 2014
793
0
16
I'm an athiest so, I believe that demons do not exist.
.

I understand the context in which you say that .
Lets have a look, as an atheist, towards the possibility of some sort of ethereal life form that to us , could be deemed a demon or an angel.

Not that I am saying they exist, but just because there is no God the Creator of all things , does not mean that demons or angels cannot exist.

The whole concept of God is out dated if you ask me.
I'm sure somewhere someone in the past got it closer to what I am still working on.
There cannot possible be one single entity that created the whole thing with a consciousness of the implications of the future joy and suffering in It's grasp when creating.

Life is far too divided between the have's and the have nots for one Almighty Being to conjure up.

Unless that entity is a mad man and we are at the hands of It.

Cliffy made a post that caught my eye.
the words in bold.

If people knew who and what they are there would be no evil in the world. This information has been kept from us for control purposes. How could anybody control someone else if they knew that they were equal. This is why I do not like religion or monarchies or even governments and there corporate puppet masters. "We are star dust, we are golden and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden." Contemplate the implications of that.



I read that as "do not become emotionally attached to material things (people, organizations, stuff) because it is an anchor to the illusion of "reality" caused by separation thinking. We are much greater than our physical selves. After years of studying and participating in spiritual matters, it dawned on me one day how absolutely simple it all was - we are spirit (pure conscious energy) at our core. That realization alone is all you need to be a spiritual person. It is a door to seeing our connection to everything and everybody. Then there is the possibility of true empathy and understanding with other living beings.

As for spirituality, for me that's all about our capacity for altruism and love.
Something a Supreme Being surely is lacking.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
I'm an athiest so, I believe that demons do not exist.

Twila, I like to start with etymology in order to understand the linguistic origins of a term:

demon (n.)
c.1200, from Latin daemon "spirit," from Greek daimon "deity, divine power; lesser god; guiding spirit, tutelary deity" (sometimes including souls of the dead); "one's genius, lot, or fortune;" from PIE *dai-mon- "divider, provider" (of fortunes or destinies), from root *da- "to divide" (see tide (n.)). Used (with daimonion) in Christian Greek translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Greek word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii:31 has daimones, translated as deofol in Old English, feend or deuil in Middle English. Another Old English word for this was hellcniht, literally "hell-knight." Online Etymology Dictionary

According to the definition above, demons are idols/other gods in the Old Testament and unclean spirits in the New Testament.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
Twila, I like to start with etymology in order to understand the linguistic origins of a term:

demon (n.)
c.1200, from Latin daemon "spirit," from Greek daimon "deity, divine power; lesser god; guiding spirit, tutelary deity" (sometimes including souls of the dead); "one's genius, lot, or fortune;" from PIE *dai-mon- "divider, provider" (of fortunes or destinies), from root *da- "to divide" (see tide (n.)). Used (with daimonion) in Christian Greek translations and Vulgate for "god of the heathen" and "unclean spirit." Jewish authors earlier had employed the Greek word in this sense, using it to render shedim "lords, idols" in the Septuagint, and Matt. viii:31 has daimones, translated as deofol in Old English, feend or deuil in Middle English. Another Old English word for this was hellcniht, literally "hell-knight." Online Etymology Dictionary

According to the definition above, demons are idols/other gods in the Old Testament and unclean spirits in the New Testament.

Thanks Motar :) I have what might be a tough question or long answer question. And with no disrespect (I unsure how to word this clearly) How come they are unclean spirits in the New Testament?
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
Thanks Motar :) I have what might be a tough question or long answer question. And with no disrespect (I unsure how to word this clearly) How come they are unclean spirits in the New Testament?

No disrespect taken, Twila. Depending on which Bible version you reference, a demon may be referred to as follows:

(Luke 8:29 NIV)
"For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places."

(Luke 8:29 KJV)
"(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)"

(Luke 8:29 MSG)
"(The man said this because Jesus had started to order the unclean spirit out of him.) Time after time the demon threw the man into convulsions. He had been placed under constant guard and tied with chains and shackles, but crazed and driven wild by the demon, he would shatter the bonds."

(Luke 8:29 NLT)
"For Jesus had already commanded the evil spirit to come out of him. This spirit had often taken control of the man. Even when he was placed under guard and put in chains and shackles, he simply broke them and rushed out into the wilderness, completely under the demon’s power."

Does that answer your question?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The answer to everything is 42.............[/QUOTE
MARY MAGDALENE​
&​
Her Seven Devils​
Alvin Boyd Kuhn​
MARY MAGDALENEThe number forty-two, which has other allegorical significance, evidently is in one respect a kindred glyph with the number six. It is six times seven, and as such was obviously used by the shrewd mythographers to disguise the number six. Forty-nine is a frequent number typing sevenfold perfection, of which forty-two represented six of the completed stages. So, typically, it reduces back to six. This would seem to be the involved meaning in the verse of Numbers 35:6: "And among the cities for refuge, which ye shall give unto the Levites there shall be six cities for refuge, which ye shall appoint for the manslayer, that he may flee thither; and to them ye shall add forty and two cities." The esoteric meaning of the Biblical cities of refuge has not been delineated. Briefly it may be stated here that in the strange duality of the ancient symbols, under what was called the Law of the Two Truths of Life, body was as equally a refuge for spirits fleeing, or expelled, from heaven to earth, as heaven is lauded as the refuge for weary souls fleeing earth life. The incarnating soul, in one very real philosophical sense, does flee to the body, with its sixfold material constitution, as his city of refuge. (This absolutely untrodden section of theological symbology will be the theme of a later lecture in the series.)
In Egyptian religion there were the forty-two assessors or jurymen in the Judgment Trial of the soul before Osiris in the great Hall of Seb, the god of earth. In Judges forty-two thousand of the Ephraimites were slain because they were unable to pronounce the three-fold sacred name, Shibboleth. And in New Testament allegory the three and a half "years" or "days" given (in Revelation, 11 and 12) as the period of the soul's imprisonment in the flesh, being the lower half of the cycle of seven stages, are found to equate just forty-two months. The soul is thus represented as being in the body of Mother Nature for six out of seven cycles, or in the lower half of a seven-period cycle energized by Nature's powers. And the purely typal nature of alleged Old Testament "history" is clearly enough seen in the following citation from Josephus (p. 206): "About this time David was become the father of six sons, born of as many mothers."
But now, by a strange shifting of the elements of the situation, from the moment the seventh or spiritual injection began its regenerating cycle in the body prepared by the first six energies of elementary Nature, it is altogether vital to the sense of a host of other Bible allegories that we understand what otherwise becomes totally inexplicable in the use of the number seven in sacred literature. Seven, it has just been seen, denotes the Christ or higher consciousness coming as the Messianic Prince of Peace as number seven in a seven series. For thousands of years the Egyptian name of the

Lucky seven=Christ, a grade) demons are the six major temptations of the flesh, lust, gluttony, sloth etc
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
No disrespect taken, Twila. Depending on which Bible version you reference, a demon may be referred to as follows:

(Luke 8:29 NIV)
"For Jesus had commanded the impure spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places."

(Luke 8:29 KJV)
"(For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with chains and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)"

(Luke 8:29 MSG)
"(The man said this because Jesus had started to order the unclean spirit out of him.) Time after time the demon threw the man into convulsions. He had been placed under constant guard and tied with chains and shackles, but crazed and driven wild by the demon, he would shatter the bonds."

(Luke 8:29 NLT)
"For Jesus had already commanded the evil spirit to come out of him. This spirit had often taken control of the man. Even when he was placed under guard and put in chains and shackles, he simply broke them and rushed out into the wilderness, completely under the demon’s power."

Does that answer your question?

When was it decided the other gods were demons and unclean. Were these the other Gods that man worshipped (false idols) or are these specifically a single race/ spirit/other gods.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
44,850
192
63
Nakusp, BC
When was it decided the other gods were demons and unclean. Were these the other Gods that man worshipped (false idols) or are these specifically a single race/ spirit/other gods.
The Israelites, when in captivity in Babylon, decided that they needed a superior god to the Babylonians to make themselves feel superior, so they invented this almighty god who could kick Baal's butt and any other god that was around at the time. The OT was written at this time to motivate the Israelites to get off their duffs and go back to the promised land. Like all other histories of humans, it is a total fabrication with a few truths thrown in to make a appear legit.
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
2,469
39
48
When was it decided the other gods were demons and unclean. Were these the other Gods that man worshipped (false idols) or are these specifically a single race/ spirit/other gods.

These are loaded questions, Twila : ) We will have to break them down and discuss them over several posts. We will begin with the Hebrew concept of cleanness. The first reference to this is found in the book of Genesis. The following instructions were given to Noah:

"Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate ... " (Genesis 7:2 NIV). In another Bible version: "Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others." (Genesis 7:2 NLT)

From the beginning, God set apart the nation that would be Israel. He did so by instituting dietary and ceremonial standards which would distinguish Noah and his family from surrounding nations and cultures. He did this in order to protect them from spiritual and physical corruption and as a sign of His holiness to the nations.

Does this answer your question concerning the biblical origin/meaning of "unclean"?
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
My belief is that evil comes from within and is not an external force.

But I would like to hear everyone else's opinioin/belief/experiences.

Please share.
Like this kind of evil being talked about? Do you know who he was referencing?

JFK Secret Societies Speech (full version) - YouTube

Or this kind?

Ge:6:5:
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
These are loaded questions, Twila : ) We will have to break them down and discuss them over several posts. We will begin with the Hebrew concept of cleanness. The first reference to this is found in the book of Genesis. The following instructions were given to Noah:

"Take with you seven pairs of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and one pair of every kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate ... " (Genesis 7:2 NIV). In another Bible version: "Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice, and take one pair of each of the others." (Genesis 7:2 NLT)

From the beginning, God set apart the nation that would be Israel. He did so by instituting dietary and ceremonial standards which would distinguish Noah and his family from surrounding nations and cultures. He did this in order to protect them from spiritual and physical corruption and as a sign of His holiness to the nations.

Does this answer your question concerning the biblical origin/meaning of "unclean"?

Totally loaded. Sorry Motar. I'm going to see if I can figure out how to word my question/thought better. Thank you so much for taking the time to answer my questions. I appreciate it immensely.
 

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,454
1,668
113
Demons exist, as do angels. Demons, of course, are fallen angels. Hitler was supposedly possessed by a demon.
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
ok. Here's the question. Let me preface this question with: It is not meant to cause offense. I am not trying to bait anyone. I am only asking out of curiousity.

My orignal question was: When was it decided the other gods were demons and unclean. Were these the other Gods that man worshipped (false idols) or are these specifically a single race/ spirit/other gods.

But I'd like to change it slightly and ask:

What proof is there that the one God is the true God and not some very clever demon? Or that this God is the God that created the world? That this God didn't usurp another and is no better than a previous God?
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
43
48
Red Deer AB
Demons exist, as do angels. Demons, of course, are fallen angels. Hitler was supposedly possessed by a demon.
Ever see a list of his mentors? Look it up, insane men each and every one and they didn't extinct themselves with the end of the war, they were brought to America and given a new company to run, .... the CIA

What proof is there that the one God is the true God and not some very clever demon? Or that this God is the God that created the world? That this God didn't usurp another and is no better than a previous God?
The Bible gives a list of a few things that changes when He takes control. Leaving out death and all manner of sin why do we seem to be so incapable of running our planet where all people benefit? It doesn't even require demons, all that needs is a small group of corrupt men and we certainly have that but the vast majority seem powerless to give them the boot. We can't bring in a standard of education for all people but reserve it for the 'elite' who only use it to abuse the rest of the planet. If the dinos operated like we do that extinction event would have been seen as a gift from God.