David Ray Griffin and 911

[I think not]

So to purport this was all a coverup would imply that the Canadian government was behind this also, its possible Wink , they didn't tell you about Canadas involvement in Iraq. But I digress.

I've been reading some of your posts, I think not. I'm not sure what to make of you except that you seem to really dislike Canada. I thought I should point out that you are wrong though. Not only were Canadians aware that they mave have troops peripherally involved in the Iraq Attack, but the New Democratic Party asked questions about it several times in question period.

Now back to the neverending examples of how the Bush government allowed 9-11 to happen.

Yes, Ive also been called anti-Canadian by Rev. Interesting when one speaks of Canada in a constructive way is labeled that. Sounds pretty much like the same accussations made towards Americans, "we can't handle the truth". All I'm looking for is fair and balanced views. You sure you can handle the truth?

And since Canadians are well aware of this Derry, why don't I ever see a post about it on this board? Nevermind don't answer that, I'll start a new thread on this topic.

Yes lets continue with 9/11.

 

[missile]

The Donald likes to splash his name over all his projects.That's why I wouldn't want him to build anything on that site..too sacreligious!

 

[I think not]

It doesn't seem his idea will go forward anyways, but I would be more in favor of just a memorial park than the current design of the "freedom tower"

 

[missile]

Whatever the citizens of NYC want there,should happen.I like the memorial park idea myself. The Donald wanted two 110 storey buildings![what an ego he has!]

 

[I think not]

Over the next couple of weeks we will get some more input on this issue. Problem is politicians stick their noses into everything, this isn't a political issue and they have long turned it into one.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

"On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them."

Your turn

As you didn't provide a source for this, I will do that for you:

Popular Mechanics: 9/11 Debunking the Myth

Having dispensed with providing the resouce material, I will now ask two simple questions:

Am I the only one that thinks it astronomically coincidental that the Research Editor for Popular Mechanics Magazine, Ben Chertoff, is the cousin of the current United States Secretary of Homeland Defense, Michael Chertoff?

Do we agree that, this being the case, the information you've provided may be biased?

 

[I think not]

Sure, I'll accept that it could be biased if you accept the same.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Sure, I'll accept that it could be biased if you accept the same.

I've already accepted that it's thoroughly biased though ITN...

What point shall we discuss now?

 

[I think not]

Well F*ck Vanni, I don't know. I can tell you this however, I'm open to ANYTHING of concrete substance, not giving orders to intercept doesn't work. There are too many people involved up and down the ladder for it to be a cover up. Including the Canadian on command that day. If you don't believe the American government (I never do btw), you surely believe one of your own, don't you?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

There are too many people involved up and down the ladder for it to be a cover up.

So you're in full agreement with the 9/11 Commission report then?

How about the Warren Commission...

Including the Canadian on command that day. If you don't believe the American government (I never do btw), you surely believe one of your own, don't you?

Hah...not bloody likely...

 

[I think not]

There are too many people involved up and down the ladder for it to be a cover up.

So you're in full agreement with the 9/11 Commission report then?

No, I am not in FULL agreement, there are still questions unanswered for me.

How about the Warren Commission...

I have seen to much evidence that contrasts the Warren Commission, I'm not buying everything with that one.

Including the Canadian on command that day. If you don't believe the American government (I never do btw), you surely believe one of your own, don't you?

Hah...not bloody likely...

Well then, we're back to square one

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Bruce Springsteen had it right: "...blind faith in your leaders or anything will get you killed..."

Too bad the leaders of the "free world" don't listen to Bruce...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

According to the 9/11 timeline, that I'd cited earlier, Bush was first told of the second plane crashing into WTC at 9:06 am. He then sat there listening to the kids read for an additional 10 minutes. At 9:16 am, he was moved to an ad hoc situation room in an adjoining classroom, whereupon he worked on a speech for the media 9:29 am, and which he then delivers at 9:30 am.

My questions in all of this are as follows:

If Bush had just learned that the nation was under attack, would not he, and his Secret Service entourage have wondered if the school were a likely target for a similar attack.

Why did the secret service agents allow him to remain in the classroom, let alone the school.

Why would Bush have allowed the lives of the children to be put in jeopardy for the sake of a photo-op, if he truly did not know if there was to be a plane crashing into the school as he sat there?

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: David Ray Griffin and

Bush knew he was safe. Everybody on the planet knew, or could find out, where he was just then, but he knew he was safe. Odd, isn't it?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Well not so odd if you're able to accept a few sinister facts on the matter... :twisted:

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: David Ray Griffin and

The problem is that to be sinister, Bush would have to be competent. That's a pretty big leap.

 

[I think not]

According to the 9/11 timeline, that I'd cited earlier, Bush was first told of the second plane crashing into WTC at 9:06 am. He then sat there listening to the kids read for an additional 10 minutes. At 9:16 am, he was moved to an ad hoc situation room in an adjoining classroom, whereupon he worked on a speech for the media 9:29 am, and which he then delivers at 9:30 am.

My questions in all of this are as follows:

If Bush had just learned that the nation was under attack, would not he, and his Secret Service entourage have wondered if the school were a likely target for a similar attack.

Well lets think about what you say here Vanni. Bush was informed at that time of two planes slamming into the WTC, attacks on the WTC had happened before. The phrase the "nation under attack" didn't really come to pass until everyone knew about the Pentagon and the plane in PA.

Why did the secret service agents allow him to remain in the classroom, let alone the school.

I think you basically asked the same question here twice

Why would Bush have allowed the lives of the children to be put in jeopardy for the sake of a photo-op, if he truly did not know if there was to be a plane crashing into the school as he sat there?

I think Derry answered that question for you

 

[I think not]

According to the 9/11 timeline, that I'd cited earlier, Bush was first told of the second plane crashing into WTC at 9:06 am. He then sat there listening to the kids read for an additional 10 minutes. At 9:16 am, he was moved to an ad hoc situation room in an adjoining classroom, whereupon he worked on a speech for the media 9:29 am, and which he then delivers at 9:30 am.

My questions in all of this are as follows:

If Bush had just learned that the nation was under attack, would not he, and his Secret Service entourage have wondered if the school were a likely target for a similar attack.

Well lets think about what you say here Vanni. Bush was informed at that time of two planes slamming into the WTC, attacks on the WTC had happened before. The phrase the "nation under attack" didn't really come to pass until everyone knew about the Pentagon and the plane in PA.

Why did the secret service agents allow him to remain in the classroom, let alone the school.

I think you basically asked the same question here twice

Why would Bush have allowed the lives of the children to be put in jeopardy for the sake of a photo-op, if he truly did not know if there was to be a plane crashing into the school as he sat there?

I think Derry answered that question for you
"The problem is that to be sinister, Bush would have to be competent. That's a pretty big leap."

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Well lets think about what you say here Vanni. Bush was informed at that time of two planes slamming into the WTC, attacks on the WTC had happened before. The phrase the "nation under attack" didn't really come to pass until everyone knew about the Pentagon and the plane in PA.

No, I submit that once Bush learned of the second plane hitting the Towers, the only conclusion that could possibly be drawn was that a terrorist attack had taken place on American soil. Not only that, but that because of the nature of the attacks, ie. planes used as missiles, it should have been concluded that any building could be a potential target.

According to Sarasota County Sheriff Bill Balkwill, just after President Bush enters a Booker Elementary classroom, a Marine responsible for carrying Bush's phone walks up to Balkwill, who is standing in a nearby side room. While listening to someone talk to him in his earpiece, the Marine asks, “Can you get me to a television? We're not sure what's going on, but we need to see a television.” Three Secret Service agents, a SWAT member, the Marine, and Balkwill turn on the television in a nearby front office just as Flight 175 crashes into the WTC. “We're out of here,” the Marine tells Balkwill. “Can you get everyone ready?” [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02] However, Bush stays at the school for another half-hour. Who makes the decision to stay—and why—remains unclear, and the Secret Service won't comment on the matter. Philip Melanson, author of a book on the Secret Service, comments, “With an unfolding terrorist attack, the procedure should have been to get the president to the closest secure location as quickly as possible, which clearly is not a school. you're safer in that presidential limo, which is bombproof and blastproof and bulletproof. . . . In the presidential limo, the communications system is almost duplicative of the White House—he can do almost anything from there but he can't do much sitting in a school.” [St. Petersburg Times, 7/4/04]

Why did the secret service agents allow him to remain in the classroom, let alone the school.

I think you basically asked the same question here twice

No, I asked the first question of the Secret Service agents.

Why would Bush have allowed the lives of the children to be put in jeopardy for the sake of a photo-op, if he truly did not know if there was to be a plane crashing into the school as he sat there?

I think Derry answered that question for you
"The problem is that to be sinister, Bush would have to be competent. That's a pretty big leap."

That would be to assume that Bush had masterminded the operation, or that he even had knowledge of the details. My thinking is that he was pitched a sure fire way to get the US into Iraq, and he, being the dolt that he is, signed off on it without knowledge of the details involved. I believe that 911 was just a shocking to him, as it was to anyone else, not because of the tragic deaths of 3030 people, but because he realized too late that, due to his desire to invade Iraq, he was ultimitately responsible for and complicit in their murders.

 

[no1important]

RE: David Ray Griffin and

Didn't Bush say at first he saw the first plane hit? Thats kinda funny as first video of it did not surface until later. With all the airforce and Aircraft carriers it is quite suspicious they were not scrambled right away. Then Bush goes to the classroom and sits there looking like he does not know what to do. Some leader.