I don't think most scandals should end in gate. This one should though. Grewal was secretly taping people for political reasons. Also, it has the alliteration thing going for it.
Conservative Gurmant Grewal
- Thread starter peapod
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I don't think most scandals should end in gate. This one should though. Grewal was secretly taping people for political reasons. Also, it has the alliteration thing going for it.
RE: Conservative Gurmant
By my count there have been:
2 independent experts hired by the Liberals.
2 audio technicians from CFRA
2 independent experts hired by the CBC
1 independent expert hired the Globe and Mail (possibly).
So six or seven experts have found the recordings to be highly suspicious.
All of that prompted the Conservatives to suddenly, after days of denial, say that they cut out parts of the tapes for sound reasons or some such crap. Nothing less than jail time will do if anybody is found to have been tampering with evidence to frame a Cabinet Minister. Grewal belongs in jail, so does Harper.
By my count there have been:
2 independent experts hired by the Liberals.
2 audio technicians from CFRA
2 independent experts hired by the CBC
1 independent expert hired the Globe and Mail (possibly).
So six or seven experts have found the recordings to be highly suspicious.
All of that prompted the Conservatives to suddenly, after days of denial, say that they cut out parts of the tapes for sound reasons or some such crap. Nothing less than jail time will do if anybody is found to have been tampering with evidence to frame a Cabinet Minister. Grewal belongs in jail, so does Harper.
You guys are funny. Predictable, but funny. The Liberals break the law, and try to bribe a Conservative MP, so obviously Harper should resign. :lol:
Grewal is a snake. His motives are questionable at best. Harper should kick him out of the party - with morals like that he would fit better with the Liberals anyway.
Doesn't change the fact that Murphy and Dosigng made the offers, though. This is illegal, immoral, and an affront to democracy. Murphy should be fired, Dosigne demoted & expelled, and the whole affair investigated by the RCMP and the Ethics Commissioner. Typical corrupt Liberals, though... anybody surprised?
Grewal is a snake. His motives are questionable at best. Harper should kick him out of the party - with morals like that he would fit better with the Liberals anyway.
Doesn't change the fact that Murphy and Dosigng made the offers, though. This is illegal, immoral, and an affront to democracy. Murphy should be fired, Dosigne demoted & expelled, and the whole affair investigated by the RCMP and the Ethics Commissioner. Typical corrupt Liberals, though... anybody surprised?
Nobody is saying that the Liberals are innocent in this, MMMikey. The evidence against them is pretty damned flimsy though...a doctored tape. People crossing the floor are generally offered something too...a cabinet position or a seat on a committee that interests them...that's not exactly news and it depends on their position in the party they are leaving.
The troubling part is the UN gig Mrs. Grewal was digging for. The Liberals never said yes to that. In fact that they never said yes to anything. They offered hints that something might happen in the future.
What Grewal did was either shopping himself around, which is illegal, or trying to entrap the Liberals, which is also illegal. He has said that Geoff Norquay was aware of what he was doing. Some have hinted that Norquay was coaching him. Norquay is the chief spinner for the Conservatives...he does nothing without Harper knowing about it.
The evidence so far is that the tape has been doctored. As Derry pointed, that is illegal. The Conservatives, not Grewal but the guys at the top, have had possession of that tape for two weeks. It was not independently transferred and transcribed, there were Conservative advisors (no word on who yet) there when the work was.
This is serious stuff, MMMikey...the kind of thing that people go to jail for. Will that happen when it involves the upper echelons of Canada's political elites? I hope so. It might be people on both sides, but the Conservative have buggered that up if there is any evidence at all that the tape has been diddled.
Jamey Heath was on NewsWorld demanding that the Liberals release phone logs etc. That might get the charges laid on both sides.
After screaming corruption for so long, you have to expect the Conservatives to draw a lot of fire for this. Trying to dump it all on Grewal doesn't wash...he wasn't on his own for the whole thing.
The troubling part is the UN gig Mrs. Grewal was digging for. The Liberals never said yes to that. In fact that they never said yes to anything. They offered hints that something might happen in the future.
What Grewal did was either shopping himself around, which is illegal, or trying to entrap the Liberals, which is also illegal. He has said that Geoff Norquay was aware of what he was doing. Some have hinted that Norquay was coaching him. Norquay is the chief spinner for the Conservatives...he does nothing without Harper knowing about it.
The evidence so far is that the tape has been doctored. As Derry pointed, that is illegal. The Conservatives, not Grewal but the guys at the top, have had possession of that tape for two weeks. It was not independently transferred and transcribed, there were Conservative advisors (no word on who yet) there when the work was.
This is serious stuff, MMMikey...the kind of thing that people go to jail for. Will that happen when it involves the upper echelons of Canada's political elites? I hope so. It might be people on both sides, but the Conservative have buggered that up if there is any evidence at all that the tape has been diddled.
Jamey Heath was on NewsWorld demanding that the Liberals release phone logs etc. That might get the charges laid on both sides.
After screaming corruption for so long, you have to expect the Conservatives to draw a lot of fire for this. Trying to dump it all on Grewal doesn't wash...he wasn't on his own for the whole thing.
:laughing3: :lol: :lol: Hey ITN look at the first Cartoon Jo posted .Its a Canadian welcome matt 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:RE: Conservative Gurmant
Well hopefully between the Lib and Con scandals the NDP pick up some more seats next time. They are the only party with clean hands at the moment.
Well hopefully between the Lib and Con scandals the NDP pick up some more seats next time. They are the only party with clean hands at the moment.
RE: Conservative Gurmant
The NDP should do well out of this.
Something I find really troubling is the reluctance of Conservative supporters to criticize their party even just a bit over this. It's a major scandal withing their party, yet all we hear is denials. They've been screaming about corruption for well over a year, I think they need to speak up against this sort of thing.
The NDP should do well out of this.
Something I find really troubling is the reluctance of Conservative supporters to criticize their party even just a bit over this. It's a major scandal withing their party, yet all we hear is denials. They've been screaming about corruption for well over a year, I think they need to speak up against this sort of thing.
RE: Conservative Gurmant
He should be investigating them too...and everybody involved should step aside while he does. That includes both the PM and the Leader of the Official Opposition. Neither is looking clean here.
He should be investigating them too...and everybody involved should step aside while he does. That includes both the PM and the Leader of the Official Opposition. Neither is looking clean here.
RE: Conservative Gurmant
And today Peter McKay has distanced himself from Grewal, and from Harper.All is not well in the Conservative Ranks.
They'd better not try to defat the government any time soon...they would be returned with less seats than they currently hold.
And today Peter McKay has distanced himself from Grewal, and from Harper.All is not well in the Conservative Ranks.
They'd better not try to defat the government any time soon...they would be returned with less seats than they currently hold.
Re: RE: Conservative Gurmant
The only criticism due the Conservatives is their muted response to this huge scandal, and their delay in releasing the tapes. Contrary to your earlier statement, entrapment is not illegal. It may be illegal for the police to use in a criminal matter, but not applicable in this case. The Health Minister, the PM's chief of staff, and the PM himself have shown themselves to be nothing more than common criminals. And the entire liberal media seems to be ignoring it. I guess they're too busy looking for Harpers hidden agenda. Disgraceful.
Reverend Blair said:
The only criticism due the Conservatives is their muted response to this huge scandal, and their delay in releasing the tapes. Contrary to your earlier statement, entrapment is not illegal. It may be illegal for the police to use in a criminal matter, but not applicable in this case. The Health Minister, the PM's chief of staff, and the PM himself have shown themselves to be nothing more than common criminals. And the entire liberal media seems to be ignoring it. I guess they're too busy looking for Harpers hidden agenda. Disgraceful.
RE: Conservative Gurmant
Tampering with evidence is illegal. Trying to frame a cabinet minister is illegal. Entrapment is illegal if you're a cop, working with a cop, or performing the duties of a cop. If Grewal was running his own little sting, he was performing the duties of a cop.
Of course, that raises the question of why he didn't call a cop. The RCMP could have supplied him with a proper wire, produced tapes that weren't tampered with, and made sure that any charges were properly backed up.
Tampering with evidence is illegal. Trying to frame a cabinet minister is illegal. Entrapment is illegal if you're a cop, working with a cop, or performing the duties of a cop. If Grewal was running his own little sting, he was performing the duties of a cop.
Of course, that raises the question of why he didn't call a cop. The RCMP could have supplied him with a proper wire, produced tapes that weren't tampered with, and made sure that any charges were properly backed up.
mrmom2 said::laughing3: :lol: :lol: Hey ITN look at the first Cartoon Jo posted .Its a Canadian welcome matt
LOL! Very good. Thank god we have Jo and spreads some humor around.
Re: RE: Conservative Gurmant
Yes Rev, it's all a big conspiracy by the big bad conservatives. Murphy & Donsignsdf did not offer him a senate seat or cabinet post (nudge nudge, wink wink). All that talk of the LIberal welcome mat with the comfy fur on it was just taken out of context.
Have we really come that far, gotten so used to the corruption that we will tolerate elaborate kickback schemes, self-enrichment, intimidation and bribery? We shouldn't even have to debate this - they should be thrown out on their asses & subject to RCMP investigation.
Reverend Blair said:
Yes Rev, it's all a big conspiracy by the big bad conservatives. Murphy & Donsignsdf did not offer him a senate seat or cabinet post (nudge nudge, wink wink). All that talk of the LIberal welcome mat with the comfy fur on it was just taken out of context.
Have we really come that far, gotten so used to the corruption that we will tolerate elaborate kickback schemes, self-enrichment, intimidation and bribery? We shouldn't even have to debate this - they should be thrown out on their asses & subject to RCMP investigation.
You see this,
corraborrating evidence
You keep missing the fact that the Liberals are not being called innocent by anybody here, Mikey. What is happening is that the Conservatives, all the way to the top, are looking just as guilty. Those who are defending them after screaming about corruption forever are looking really frigging stupid for not going after them too.
that brings that into doubt.
corraborrating evidence
You keep missing the fact that the Liberals are not being called innocent by anybody here, Mikey. What is happening is that the Conservatives, all the way to the top, are looking just as guilty. Those who are defending them after screaming about corruption forever are looking really frigging stupid for not going after them too.