CIA: We Lied to Congress

catman

Electoral Member
Sep 3, 2006
182
4
18
In May, at a point when congressional Republicans and their amen corner in the media were attempting to defend the Bush-Cheney administration's torture regime, their primary defense was: Pelosi knew.
The spin held that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, as a member of the House Intelligence Committee, had in 2002 been secretly briefed about the use of of harsh interrogation techniques on terror suspects.
Pelosi said the Central Intelligence Agency had failed to inform her about the character and extent of the harsh interrogations.
Pelosi accused the CIA of "misleading the Congress of the United States."
Republican senators screamed.
"It's outrageous that a member of Congress should call a terror-fighter a liar," howled Missouri Senator Kit Bond, the vice chair of the Senate intelligence committee. "It seems the playbook is, blame terror-fighters. We ought to be supporting them."
CIA officials denied lying to Congress and the American people, and that seemed to be that. "Let me be clear: It is not our practice or policy to mislead Congress," said CIA Director Leon Panetta. That is against our laws and values."
But, now, we learn that, in late June, Panetta admitted in secret testimony to Congress that the agency had concealed information and misled lawmakers repeatedly since 2001.
Some of the details of Panetta's testimony are contained in a letter from seven House Democrats to Panetta that was released Wednesday morning.
In the letter, the members (Anna Eshoo of California, Alcee Hastings of Florida, Rush Holt of New Jersey, Jan Schakowsky of Illinois, Adam Smith of Washington, Mike Thompson of California and John Tierney of Massachusetts) wrote: "Recently you testified that you have determined that top CIA officials have concealed significant actions from all members of Congress, and misled members for a number of years from 2001 to this week."
The letter continued: "In light of your testimony, we ask that you publicly correct your statement of May 15, 2009."
Pelosi's critics are claiming that Panetta's admission does not resolve the debate about whether the speaker was lied to in briefings about harsh interrogations.
What does the CIA say?
That's where things seem to get confusing -- but, as we'll see, not too confusing.
Panetta "stands by his May 15 statement," CIA spokesman George Little claimed after the letter from the House members was released.
The problem is that Little also said: "This agency and this director believe it is vital to keep the Congress fully and currently informed. Director Panetta's actions back that up. As the letter from these ... representatives notes, it was the CIA itself that took the initiative to notify the oversight committees."
So, officially, CIA director Panetta stands by his statement that: "It is not our practice or policy to mislead Congress."
But...
The Panetta's spokesman is seemingly rather proud that "it was the CIA itself that took the initiative to notify the oversight committees" that the agency had in the words of the House members "misled members for a number of years from 2001."
Can we reconcile these statements?
Yes.
Panetta, who has only headed the CIA since February of this year says that "it is not our practice or policy to mislead Congress."
But he tells Congress that it was in fact the consistent practice of the CIA to lie to Congress during the Bush-Cheney years.
So what are we left with?
Perhaps a measure of vindication for Pelosi, but the speaker's wrangling with the Republicans is a distraction from the fundamental revelation.
Far more important is Panetta's reported admission that his agency has "concealed significant actions" and "misled members of Congress."
No matter what anyone thinks of Pelosi or waterboarding, there is a clear case for dramatically expanding congressional oversight of the CIA. Of course, more House and Senate members should have access to briefings. But that ought not be the first response to the latest news.
Step one should be to the bottom of exactly what the CIA was lying about.
Did it have anything to do with the case for invading and occupying Iraq? Afghanistan?
CIA defenders will claim that some secrets must be kept. Perhaps. But the Congress and the American people have a right to know the broad outlines of the deception -- and the extent to which it may have warped, and may continue to warp, U.S. policy.

CIA: We Lied to Congress
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
I do not honestly think Congress will spend too much time investigating the CIA's failings. Whenever questions or issues like this have arisen in the past, Congress only gives it window dressing. Nothing more.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
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United States
"CIA defenders will claim that some secrets must be kept. Perhaps. But the Congress and the American people have a right to know the broad outlines of the deception -- and the extent to which it may have warped, and may continue to warp, U.S. policy."


No, Congress does not have a right to know unless they directly ask. The American people do not have the right to know how our spy systems work at all, sometimes it is better to keep the public in the dark in order to protect them. Only that they operate within the guidelines set forth by Congress the agencies involved.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
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Ottawa, ON
Where's the democracy if even the people elected to office can't have access to the information, even behind closed doors?

Who'll police the spies?
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
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United States
Sometimes it is just better to leave it to the experts. Why do the spy agencies need policing, until we are aware they have or are doing something wrong, nothing is wrong if they do their job right. We have Presidents and chief executives for.Monitoring their every move, bringing us into the loop will only cripple what they do. I know my limitations, and a 007 or a micro manager I'm not.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
Sometimes it is just better to leave it to the experts. Why do the spy agencies need policing, until we are aware they have or are doing something wrong, nothing is wrong if they do their job right. We have Presidents and chief executives for.Monitoring their every move, bringing us into the loop will only cripple what they do. I know my limitations, and a 007 or a micro manager I'm not.

That's why I'd said 'behind closed doors'. No, I might not need to know everything, but my elected MP, who's supposed to protect me from any dangers to my self and country, ought to be n the know. How is he to do his job if he's not entitled to know what's going on behind closed doors? At that point, what is democracy for?

We could argue your case on many fronts. What you are proposing is technocracy. In other words, the Minister of Education should not be an elected representative, but a professional educator, elected or not. The Minister of Defence should simply be a professional general. The Minister of Health... you get the picture. Even the PM should be a political scholar. That would eliminate the need for elections altogether. Do you trust your 'experts' that much that you'd be willing to trade in democracy for technocracy?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
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"CIA defenders will claim that some secrets must be kept. Perhaps. But the Congress and the American people have a right to know the broad outlines of the deception -- and the extent to which it may have warped, and may continue to warp, U.S. policy."


No, Congress does not have a right to know unless they directly ask. The American people do not have the right to know how our spy systems work at all, sometimes it is better to keep the public in the dark in order to protect them. Only that they operate within the guidelines set forth by Congress the agencies involved.

The founding fathers of your country made checks and balances because they were untrusting of this kind of clandestine militarism. It's only using those checks and balances that your system works as intended. Unless there is a section of the Constitution that specifically limits Congressional oversight of a security agency of the federal government- I don't think there is- then there should be proper oversight of that said agency(ies) by that level of your government that is charged with funding wars and declaring them.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
This isn't about micromanagement. This is about an espionage program operating without congressional oversight in violation of the American constitution and their law. Cheney took an oath to uphold the constition, not violate it. This could lead to criminal charges.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
That's why I'd said 'behind closed doors'. No, I might not need to know everything, but my elected MP, who's supposed to protect me from any dangers to my self and country, ought to be n the know. How is he to do his job if he's not entitled to know what's going on behind closed doors? At that point, what is democracy for?

We could argue your case on many fronts. What you are proposing is technocracy. In other words, the Minister of Education should not be an elected representative, but a professional educator, elected or not. The Minister of Defence should simply be a professional general. The Minister of Health... you get the picture. Even the PM should be a political scholar. That would eliminate the need for elections altogether. Do you trust your 'experts' that much that you'd be willing to trade in democracy for technocracy?

We have trusted the politicians and lawyers so far and look what it has gotten us, are we any better off? I would trust the professional experts, no reason someone could not actually be qualified for the position they seek. Nothing wrong with a PM or President having to be a political scholar before running for the position.
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
60
48
United States
The founding fathers of your country made checks and balances because they were untrusting of this kind of clandestine militarism. It's only using those checks and balances that your system works as intended. Unless there is a section of the Constitution that specifically limits Congressional oversight of a security agency of the federal government- I don't think there is- then there should be proper oversight of that said agency(ies) by that level of your government that is charged with funding wars and declaring them.


"1544, Congressional action, (b) Termination of use of United States Armed Forces; exceptions; extension period" — Congress crossed the line:
Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted . . . the President shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces . . . unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack upon the United States.
(d) Concurrent resolution for removal by President of United States Armed Forces
Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section, at any time that United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution.
Can President Bush Send Troops to Iraq without Congress's Approval?


We do, however, know the answer to whether Congress can order the President to remove troops in the field — and that answer is a resounding "no."
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
61
48
Ottawa, ON
We have trusted the politicians and lawyers so far and look what it has gotten us, are we any better off? I would trust the professional experts, no reason someone could not actually be qualified for the position they seek. Nothing wrong with a PM or President having to be a political scholar before running for the position.

We'll agree to disagree.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
150
63
"1544, Congressional action, (b) Termination of use of United States Armed Forces; exceptions; extension period" — Congress crossed the line:
Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted . . . the President shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces . . . unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack upon the United States.
(d) Concurrent resolution for removal by President of United States Armed Forces
Notwithstanding subsection (b) of this section, at any time that United States Armed Forces are engaged in hostilities outside the territory of the United States, its possessions and territories without a declaration of war or specific statutory authorization, such forces shall be removed by the President if the Congress so directs by concurrent resolution.
Can President Bush Send Troops to Iraq without Congress's Approval?


We do, however, know the answer to whether Congress can order the President to remove troops in the field — and that answer is a resounding "no."

What does this have to do with Congressional oversight of the CIA? If they are paying for a war, they should be able to have confidence in the information they are using to make decisions. They obviously lied. Thousands of American men and women have died in the post 9-11 wars. If a lie lead to any part of that, I think someone needs to answer for that.