Call for a Peaceful End to Zionism

[Logic 7]

We ALL beg of you to do the same. At least the crap I dig up, has some form of formulative though, you have not posted one shread of counter evidence, just name calling and your typical rhetoric.

Grow up and post some proof. You can't, you have not the ablity to find anything, even surrounded by such deep thoughts, as the library you hide in would provide. Try reading a book or expanding your mind, with something other then the cocktail perscribed by a Doctor, who's skills are somwhat lacking, evident im you inablity to post anything other then tripe.

You are a twit right??? when you pretend to own something based on religious belief, you got to be some kind of a idiot, and the zionist acts, proves it.


The link you provided proves where you get your stupidity, and why you have so much hatred towards muslim and quebecers, in fact you are a total disgrace to human race, and here is the proof on what you believe in is a total disgrace, here some jokes from the link you provided



Goffaq Yussef.
Note: This is not really an Arab Muslim.
Arab Muslims who poke fun at their society end up dead. Very dead.


What do you say to a Muslim woman with two black eyes?
Nothing! You told her twice already!

How many Palestinians does it take to change a light bulb.
None! They sit in the dark forever and blame the Jews!

Did you hear about the Muslim strip club?
It features full facial nudity!

Why do Palestinians find it convenient to live on the West Bank?
Because it's just a stone's throw from Israel!

Why are Palestinian boys luckier than American boys?
Because every Palestinian boy will get to join a rock group!

A Palestinian girl says to her mommy,
"After Abdul blows up, can I have his room?"

What does the sign say above the nursery in a Palestinian maternity ward?
"Live ammunition."

i am impress by their synical humour.

 

[CDNBear]

Of course no substance, just more name calling and nothing else.

Grow up lass, your shtick is old and worne out. Kind of like your mind.

Try going here and explaining your proof of anything you have said...

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/c...-once-all-native-stance-soveriegn-quebec.html

 

[Logic 7]

Of course no substance, just more name calling and nothing else.

Grow up lass, your shtick is old and worne out. Kind of like your mind.

Try going here and explaining your proof of anything you have said...

http://forums.canadiancontent.net/c...-once-all-native-stance-soveriegn-quebec.html

No substance? you took your information from a bunch of fascist moron, who are so synical they undermined the palestinians, people they are oppressing for the last 50 years, and you are telling me, i have no substance??

 

[Sassylassie]

Well well Logic look what your brave heros are up to: Israel is showing great restraint, at some point Israel will have to protect it's people from these terrorist.

Youth critically wounded in Kassam attack on Sderot
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND NOAM BEDEIN

Talkbacks for this article: 96

The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the Kassam attack on Sderot that wounded two ninth-grade boys, one critically, on Tuesday evening. The rocket was the seventh to have been fired at Sderot since Tuesday morning.
Shortly after 10 p.m., the Red Alert alarm sounded throughout Sderot; 10 seconds later, the rocket landed near a group of schoolchildren who were headed for the nearest shelter. Ninth-graders Matan Cohen and Adir Bassad, however, had no time to reach the shelter and were hit by shrapnel.
Background: Just a matter of time before the next attack
The two were evacuated to Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon, where doctors began operating.
Following the attack, Defense Minister Amir Peretz called Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and urged him to change Israel's restraint policy.
Peretz plans to convene defense officials for a consultation on the situation on Wednesday.
"We cannot continue to restrain ourselves," Peretz told the prime minister. "We cannot let Islamic Jihad do whatever they want, and we need to take action to stop the Kassams."
Doctors told an Israel Radio interviewer shortly after 11 p.m. Tuesday that Bassad, who suffered hits to his chest and stomach, was not yet stabilized, and a surgical team was battling to save his life.
Cohen, whose major wound was to his leg, was reported stabilized.
A number of other people were reported in shock.
One of the medics who treated the boys reported that one of them was likely to lose his legs. One of the boys had a bone sticking out of one of his legs, he said, and the other's ankle was completely twisted.
Meanwhile, the scene outside was chaotic as agitated residents came out of their homes to survey the damage. Cars windows were smashed, and the upstairs windows of homes in the vicinity were completetly shattered.
Frustration and anger were the prevailing emotions at the scene of the attack.
"Our children are getting hurt over here and nobody's doing anything about this," one resident shouted.
"We can't go out anywhere, not to the shopping mall, or anywhere," another resident said.
Others vented their anger at the press members who were covering the incident. "You guys are going to interview us and maybe show a minute or two, but you don't really feel our pain," one resident accused.
Earlier in the afternoon, Palestinians fired a Kassam from the northern Gaza Strip that landed in an open area of the Sha'ar Hanegev region. No one was wounded, and no damage was caused. The Islamic Jihad took responsibility for the attack.
Meanwhile, a group of Israeli ambassadors and consuls to European nations were due to tour Sderot on Tuesday and view firsthand the damage caused by the continual rocket fire.
Early Tuesday morning, four Kassam rockets were fired from the Gaza Strip towards Sderot. Three rockets fell in open territory outside the city, causing neither casualties nor damage, while one landed near the Sderot home of a former resident of the Gaza settlement Elei Sinai. A total of 62 rockets have been fired at Israel since the Israeli-Palestinian cease-fire was declared in November.

 

[CDNBear]

No substance? you took your information from a bunch of fascist moron, who are so synical they undermined the palestinians, people they are oppressing for the last 50 years, and you are telling me, i have no substance??

I do not think you missed the sarcasm involved when I posted those pieces, I know you did. Your grasp of the obvious, is less then lack luster, it's nonexistant. It was a direct retort to the seemingly endless tripe posted by earth. Nothing more, then proof that no matter what position you hold, there is an endless supply of crap to draw your proof from. Not that I would expect any proof from you, you have no concept of it. Your continuous ignoring of my calls to address your claims of Native support for the separatists, is proof enough of that.

 

[earth_as_one]

CDNBear,

I have done no harm to any First Nations person. I do not owe First Nation's people anything beyond what I owe other members of Canadian society.

That said, all Canadians collectively have a moral imperative to settle land claims issues with First Nations fairly. Its in Canada's best interests to promote and protect Canada's First Nation identity and culture. Each nation is a distinct society and adds to Canada's cultural wealth.

Compare injustices.... the Canadian government isn't bombing First Nation communities, First Nation children don't have to worry about sniper fire and kill zones on the way to school... First Nations people have special rights to the land and its resources, free healthcare and education, subsidized university, no taxes...

If you are going to raise the negatives about being a Canadian citizen, I will raise the positives. First Nation people have a net benefit as a result of also being Canadian citizen. But if you disagree... Vote to Separate. I also recognize that special right too as long as it is supported by a two thirds majority.

Realistically most First Nations would suffer greatly if they became independant at the cost of loosing Canadian social welfare benefits.

Back on topic, this string is about Zionism.

Any system which bases rights on race/religion/ethnicity will always be unjust and lead to those with more rights oppressing others with less rights. Its human nature to resist injustice and oppression. <---prove this statement incorrect or agree with it or question/challenge it.

The more pain Zionists (people who believe in Zionism) impose on the people they ethnically cleansed off the land to create a state for Jews, the more determined these people will become. <--- agree/disagree

point: The London blitz of 1940 did not break British will. All it did was increase their resolve. IDF cruelty and injustice against Palestinians will do the same thing.

Re Palestinians:

When I refer to Palestinians, I am referring to the people Israel displaced from the land to make way for Israel. The people who had their bank accounts seized and lost all property they could not carry. The people in the family portraits hanging on the walls of homes awarded to Jewish immigrants. It really doesn't matter what we call them. Palestinian is just a name to refer to these people collectively. Perhaps "the New Jew" better describes their situation.

Zionism classifies people by race. Therefore its racist. Zionism is not Judaism.

I personally have nothing against any religion. My problem is when religion is used to classify people for the purposes of giving some people more rights and other people less rights. It doesn't matter which religion does this. Zionism in the case of Judaism and Islamic Fundamentalism in the case of Islam. All major religions including Christianity have been used start wars, create unjust situation or oppress others.

Religion should not be used to take away rights.

Everone has a right to choose their own path... until your path crosses someone else's path. Then you have to be polite and play nicely together. Its a simple rule we should all know from Kindergarten.

 

[CDNBear]

CDNBear,

I have done no harm to any First Nations person. I do not owe First Nation's people anything beyond what I owe other members of Canadian society.

That said, all Canadians collectively have a moral imperative to settle land claims issues with First Nations fairly. Its in Canada's best interests to promote and protect Canada's First Nation identity and culture. Each nation is a distinct society and adds to Canada's cultural wealth.

Also if you want to compare injustices, the Canadian government isn't bombing First Nation communities, First Nation children don't have to worry about sniper fire and kill zones on the way to school, First Nations people have special rights to the land and its resources, free healthcare and education, subsidized university, no taxes...

If you are going to raise the negatives, I will raise the positives. I would say for the last 50 years at least the positives of being a Canadian citizen outweigh the negatives. I also would support the right of a First Nation to separate from Canada and go on their own (within limits) if a two thirds majority voted for this.

I suspect most First Nations would suffer greatly if they became independant at the cost of loosing their social welfare benefits.

Back on topic, this string is about ending Zionsim peacefully. I think any system which bases rights on race/religion/ethnicity will always be unjust and lead to those with more rights oppressing others with less rights. Its human nature to resist injustice and oppression. The more pain the Zionists impose on the people they ethnically cleansed off the land to create a state for Jews, the more determined these people will become.

The London blitz of 1940 did not break British will. All it did was increase their resolve. IDF cruelty and injustice against Palestinians will do the same thing.

When I refer to Palestinians, I am referring to the people Israel displaced from the land to make way for Israel. The people who had their bank accounts seized and lost all property they could not carry. The people in the family portraits hanging on the walls of homes awarded to Jewish immigrants. It really doesn't matter what we call them. Palestinian is just a name to refer to these people collectively. Perhaps "the New Jew" better describes their situation.

I personally have nothing against any religion as long as it isn't used to take away the rights of others or impose injustice and oppression. I support eveyone's right to choose their own path until your path crosses someone else's path.

That's great, I'm glad you feel that way. It is a crying shame the nazi parties you support are not as peaceful as you.

You fail to grasp, as much as you keep claiming that Israel is run as a Zionist state, it is not. It does not actively seek to completely rid the surrounding area of non Jews, it seeks to be safe and free within its confines. Yes it builds walls, not to keep people enclosed, but to keep hostilities out. Yes it targets indiscriminantly and as hard as it is for me to justify the result, the violence of the nazi parties that would see Israel vapourized, arethe ones you should blame. Do I blame the Non Natives for the stereotypes of my people? No, I blame those responsible for the stereotypes in the first place, my people.

Now suddenly the death rate and use of weaponry, is being used to somehow justify your home on our land occupied land. Whether or not we are under attack, is irrelavent. If we were to lauch rockets and or small arms fire in to your neighbourhood. I would expect the authorities to squash us like bugs. The authorities having a greater force, we would not likely come out unscathed. So we shall not. That is sensible thinking. Something lacking in the fanatics you continuously defend.

Israel is not without blame, I concure with that. But the majority of the blame resides squarely in the Arab states that not only supply this silly shyte, they provoke it.

You keep pointing a boney fingure at Israel as the demon here, because of an imbalance in destruction. So by your measure, if I choose to launch an offensive against the local Police force with a group of Natives and we are summarily killed in the insuing fire fight, because we killed, but one Police officer, it is not our fault, but the Police? Where do you get this math? It is flawed at best, assinine at worst.

I have no doubt you will post more graphs, that are meaningless, more biased stories that have relivance, but lack the complete perspective of "why" the IDF bombs fell. As I have seen you post in the past, you ask why this is happening, but the answer is already out there, it is just not posted at the sites you collect your data from, becausethose sites can not accept the errors in the ways of some in the area that just got the shyte kicked out of it.

As Logic 7 posted, between name calling and her assinine shyte, Israel is the 4th largest Military force in the world. So what is stopping them from wiping the Palistinians and Lebonese of the earth? Nothing. It is not their goal. Have the expropriated land they shouldn't have? It seems to be a matter of symantics. Buat as long as you only read one side, you will never see the grass on the otherside of that fence.

BTW, As much as I feel the material I posted in rebuttle to yours, is a tad shyte like, it has a ring of truth to it. If you applied an 1/8th of the fevered passion, you apply to your position with biased half truths to reading what I posted, you might actually get a clearer view of the whole of the situation, rather then the rather pin holed view you have now.

 

[earth_as_one]

L and others...

let's tone it down...

Attack the point, not the person.

 

[CDNBear]

L and others...

let's tone it down...

Attack the point, not the person.

Good luck that thought, logic7 has nothing more then rhetoric and name calling going for her.

 

[Logic 7]

That's great, I'm glad you feel that way. It is a crying shame the nazi parties you support are not as peaceful as you.


As Logic 7 posted, between name calling and her assinine shyte, Israel is the 4th largest Military force in the world. So what is stopping them from wiping the Palistinians and Lebonese of the earth? Nothing. It is not their goal. Have the expropriated land they shouldn't have? It seems to be a matter of symantics. Buat as long as you only read one side, you will never see the grass on the otherside of that fence.

BTW, As much as I feel the material I posted in rebuttle to yours, is a tad shyte like, it has a ring of truth to it. If you applied an 1/8th of the fevered passion, you apply to your position with biased half truths to reading what I posted, you might actually get a clearer view of the whole of the situation, rather then the rather pin holed view you have now.

Look what israel has done to the palestinians in the last 50 years, and if you tell me, they don't want to get rid of them, then tell me what is their goal?? their goal is simple, drag the palestinians out of their land, and rule the entire middle east.Very simple.


You didnt even answer one question earth one asked you, i can understand you can be an ass with me,however earth one hasnt name anyone with a bad name, and you still try to drag him into your little ass game, congrats earth one, you didnt fell into that trap.


What you posted doesnt rebutted nothing, it is a religious based web site, nothing factual.

 

[earth_as_one]

...You fail to grasp, as much as you keep claiming that Israel is run as a Zionist state, it is not. It does not actively seek to completely rid the surrounding area of non Jews, it seeks to be safe and free within its confines. Yes it builds walls, not to keep people enclosed, but to keep hostilities out. Yes it targets indiscriminantly and as hard as it is for me to justify the result, the violence of the nazi parties that would see Israel vapourized, arethe ones you should blame. Do I blame the Non Natives for the stereotypes of my people? No, I blame those responsible for the stereotypes in the first place, my people.

I can give examples which prove the above incorrect:

The Law of Return only applies to Jews.

[SIZE=+2]Israel's Apartheid Marriage Law[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]A Wall of Separation Through the Heart[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+2]By JOANNE MARINER[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+3]I[/SIZE]magine having to decide between your country or your spouse. With the passage of Israel's new law on marriage and citizenship, thousands of Israeli Arabs now face this painful and unjust choice.
The law, passed on July 31, bars Palestinians who marry Israelis from becoming citizens or residents of Israel. It formalizes a policy that has been effect since September 2000...

...Israeli law already extends an absolute preference to Jews over members of all other ethnic or religious groups in obtaining Israeli citizenship. The Law of Return, together with the country's Citizenship Law, grants automatic citizenship to Jewish immigrants to Israel. Not only do the country's legal rules benefit Jews over other potential immigrants, they give Jews priority over Palestinians who fled or were driven from the country during the 1948 and 1967 wars....

http://www.counterpunch.org/mariner08132003.html

Opinions on the subject:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040223/exchange

[/quote]

Now suddenly the death rate and use of weaponry, is being used to somehow justify your home on our land occupied land. Whether or not we are under attack, is irrelavent. If we were to lauch rockets and or small arms fire in to your neighbourhood. I would expect the authorities to squash us like bugs. The authorities having a greater force, we would not likely come out unscathed. So we shall not. That is sensible thinking. Something lacking in the fanatics you continuously defend.

My point is that Zionists revived ancient injustices as justification to create new injustices. Palestine was relatively peaceful before Zionism caused this war. If this isn't a lesson in what not to do, I don't know what is... No good comes from violence. Only violence comes from violence.

Israel is not without blame, I concure with that. But the majority of the blame resides squarely in the Arab states that not only supply this silly shyte, they provoke it.

No Arab/Muslim nation directly attacks Israel. The threat comes from popular movements within these nations. Many Muslims give willingly to charities they know will build mosques, schools, hospitals as well as buy arms for militant groups fighting to end Zionism. These people have their version of propaganda just like we have ours. Their sympathies lie overwhelmingly with Palestinians and because of Islamic charity, they give generously.

You keep pointing a boney fingure at Israel as the demon here, because of an imbalance in destruction. So by your measure, if I choose to launch an offensive against the local Police force with a group of Natives and we are summarily killed in the insuing fire fight, because we killed, but one Police officer, it is not our fault, but the Police? Where do you get this math? It is flawed at best, assinine at worst.

I have no doubt you will post more graphs, that are meaningless, more biased stories that have relivance, but lack the complete perspective of "why" the IDF bombs fell. As I have seen you post in the past, you ask why this is happening, but the answer is already out there, it is just not posted at the sites you collect your data from, becausethose sites can not accept the errors in the ways of some in the area that just got the shyte kicked out of it.

Israel is the undisputed power in the region... for now. Its in Israel's best interest to make a generous peaceful settlement now from a position of power. All Palestinians have to do is be patient. They will eventually win this war. Each year their numbers and support grows. They are becoming the focal point of Arab/Muslim unity. Eventually the shoe will be on the other foot and many people who have suffered will be in a position to extract revenge. Its not wise to give more than you are willing to recieve...

Israel's best interest is to keep civilian casualties to a minimum... but clearly they are casual about killing Palestinian civilians.

Assassinations of Civilian Leaders

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]After the attack[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Palestinians gather around remnants of the wheelchair at the scene where an Israeli air strike killed Sheikh Yassin, near his house in Gaza City.[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Photograph: Kevin Frayer/AP [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]22.03.04: The assassination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin[/FONT]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,8542,1175396,00.html

Colateral Damage
Amnesty report accuses Israel of war crimes
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]David Fickling[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Wednesday August 23, 2006[/FONT]
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Guardian Unlimited[/FONT]

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]The aftermath of an Israeli air strike on southern Beirut. Photograph: Mohamed Messara/EPA[/FONT]

Israel deliberately targeted civilian infrastructure and committed war crimes during the month-long conflict in Lebanon, according to an Amnesty International report.
The report said strikes on civilian buildings and structures went beyond "collateral damage" and amounted to indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks under the Geneva conventions on the laws of war.
Kate Gilmore, the Amnesty executive deputy secretary general, said the bombardment of power and water plants and transport links was "deliberate and an integral part of a military strategy".
"Israel's assertion that the attacks on the infrastructure were lawful is manifestly wrong," she said. "Many of the violations identified in our report are war crimes. The pattern, scope and scale of the attacks makes Israel's claim that this was collateral damage simply not credible."...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1856587,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=1

What goes around comes around... sooner or later.

Impunity

...On May 19, 2004, for instance, during the Rafah incursions, an Israeli tank and helicopter gunship fired on a crowd of demonstrators, killing nine persons, including three children. In late September 2004, Israel launched a massive incursion into the northern Gaza Strip. Around 130 Palestinians were killed, more than a quarter of them children. One thirteen-year-old girl, Imam al-Hams, was shot twenty times by an Israeli officer. Several children were killed in their classrooms in other incidents.

There were also numerous instances in the West Bank of civilians killed by indiscriminate Israeli gunfire, such as the deaths in Nablus in June 2004 of Dr. Khaled Salah, a lecturer at Najah University, and his sixteen-year-old son. Israel has failed to investigate suspicious killings and serious injuries by its security forces, including killings of children, thus continuing to foster an atmosphere of impunity...​

http://hrw.org/wr2k5/wr2005.pdf​

Zionism failed because it failed to adequately take into account the longterm consequences of displacing hundreds of thousands of people.

 

[earth_as_one]

How Palestinian property becomes Jewish:

Israelis use barrier and 55-year-old law to quietly seize Palestinians' land
[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif]Chris McGreal in Bethlehem
Monday January 31, 2005
The Guardian

[/FONT]
The Israeli government has quietly seized thousands of acres of Palestinian-owned land in and around east Jerusalem after a secret cabinet decision to use a 55-year-old law against Arabs separated from farms and orchards by the vast "security barrier".
Most of the hundreds of Palestinian families whose land has been confiscated without compensation have not been formally notified that their property has been transferred to the Israeli state. But plans have already been drawn up to expand Jewish settlements on to some of the expropriated territory. The move has drawn stinging criticism from the Palestinian leadership and some Israelis, who call it "legalised theft" and say it is evidence that the vast steel and concrete barrier under construction through the West Bank and Jerusalem is less for security than a move to expand Israel's borders....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1402261,00.html

What do you make of this law CDNbear?

The Absentees' Property Law of March 1950 transferred the right of the natural owner to a Custodian of Absentee Property and made him liable to the real owner for the value, but not the return, of his property (Lehn, p.131). The Palestinians who remained in Israel, especially in the Negev, were relocated away from their homes and declared Absentee. The Development Authority (Transfer of Property) Law of July 1950 was devised, as a legal ploy, to shield Israel's government from the accusation that it has confiscated abandoned property. The Development Authority is an independent body empowered to sell, buy, lease, exchange, repair, build, develop and cultivate Palestinian property. None of these transactions could take place except with a Jew or a Jewish entity. To give effect to this seizure, various Jewish bodies agreed that "under no circumstances should the Arabs return to Israel"....

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Right-Of-Return/Story441.html

Here is the actual text:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.nsf/01...e0b719e95e3b494885256f9a005ab90a!OpenDocument

 

[CDNBear]

Look what israel has done to the palestinians in the last 50 years, and if you tell me, they don't want to get rid of them, then tell me what is their goal?? their goal is simple, drag the palestinians out of their land, and rule the entire middle east.Very simple.


You didnt even answer one question earth one asked you, i can understand you can be an ass with me,however earth one hasnt name anyone with a bad name, and you still try to drag him into your little ass game, congrats earth one, you didnt fell into that trap.

What you posted doesnt rebutted nothing, it is a religious based web site, nothing factual.

First let me get your last statement out of the way, seeing as it is the most ridiculous. You missedthe sarcasm the first time, I pointed it to you and you still missed it. You really have some gull calling anyone a retard, when you miss the point even after it's colour in for you. Stick to crayons, pencils are dangerous to your well being, in your hands.

Look logic, your grasp on reality being tenuous at best, you may note, that earth posted no questions, look back, zero question marks. As you obviously have no idea what one looks like, "?" that is a question mark. It would go at the end of a question like...

Why haven't you addressed your lies about the Natives supporting the separatist? <---See the question and question mark? Opps, another question. I doubt it. Furthermore, I did not call earth any names. You just made that up, because you have nothing relavent to add, but as the old saying goes...

“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”


You logic, fall into the latter category, I assure you.

I can give examples which prove the above incorrect:

The Law of Return only applies to Jews.





Opinions on the subject:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040223/exchange

My point is that Zionists revived ancient injustices as justification to create new injustices. Palestine was relatively peaceful before Zionism caused this war. If this isn't a lesson in what not to do, I don't know what is... No good comes from violence. Only violence comes from violence.



No Arab/Muslim nation directly attacks Israel. The threat comes from popular movements within these nations. Many Muslims give willingly to charities they know will build mosques, schools, hospitals as well as buy arms for militant groups fighting to end Zionism. These people have their version of propaganda just like we have ours. Their sympathies lie overwhelmingly with Palestinians and because of Islamic charity, they give generously.



Israel is the undisputed power in the region... for now. Its in Israel's best interest to make a generous peaceful settlement now from a position of power. All Palestinians have to do is be patient. They will eventually win this war. Each year their numbers and support grows. They are becoming the focal point of Arab/Muslim unity. Eventually the shoe will be on the other foot and many people who have suffered will be in a position to extract revenge. Its not wise to give more than you are willing to recieve...

Israel's best interest is to keep civilian casualties to a minimum... but clearly they are casual about killing Palestinian civilians.

Assassinations of Civilian Leaders
What goes around comes around... sooner or later.

Impunity


Zionism failed because it failed to adequately take into account the longterm consequences of displacing hundreds of thousands of people.[/quote]
One, I have never defended all the actions or laws of Israel. Twom you seem hell bent on converting, I seek merely to counter your nonsense with facts from the otherside. A place you are not willing to hear from. Three, look at your own headings, "opinions", not facts "opinions". Four, they did not displace hundreds of thousands of people, the UN did. Yet you call up UN resolutions when it suits you, you seem to fail to accept that the UN mandated The area to the Jews, get over it. They took land in battles they did not start. Why should they give it back?

How Palestinian property becomes Jewish:



What do you make of this law CDNbear?



Here is the actual text:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.nsf/01...e0b719e95e3b494885256f9a005ab90a!OpenDocument

Not much, I'm not very impressed with it. What do you think of this law...

"In Calgary there is a by-law that is still on the books that requires businesses within the city to provide rails for tying up horses."

Silly laws happen and stay on the books for some time. Get over that too.

 

[earth_as_one]

Not much, I'm not very impressed with it. What do you think of this law...

"In Calgary there is a by-law that is still on the books that requires businesses within the city to provide rails for tying up horses."

Silly laws happen and stay on the books for some time. Get over that too.

Does Calgary have laws which actively take property from one group of people and award it to anther based on race/religion/ethnicity? Israel does

If you are the wrong kind of person living in the wrong spot, that's enough to get a shell fired through your window, your home demolished and a wall put up between you and what used to be your property. Should these people stop whining about it in your opnion CDNbear?

Do you still need more proof Zionsist state of Israel is racist?

 

[CDNBear]

Does Calgary have laws which actively take property from one group of people and award it to anther based on race/religion/ethnicity? Israel does

No but Natives were forcibly removed from land that had valuable minerals or resourses, not with violence I might add.

If you are the wrong kind of person living in the wrong spot, that's enough to get a shell fired through your window, your home demolished and a wall put up between you and what used to be your property. Should these people stop whining about it in your opnion CDNbear?

No of course not, but then again this is new slant to your usual MO.

Look, I hold no ill will to these people, despite what Illogic7 thinks. My problem is, you expect us to believe that the IDF targets hapless civilians, without cause. This is completely untrue. They target structures and locations that have been identified as the launching point of rockets that have been fired into Israel.

Granted, at some point Israel should look at the collatoral damage it has created and rethink their stratagy. But who are we to point our fingures?

You will never convince me that the Palistinians or the Lebonese want total peace, remember I've been there, I've seen the seathing hate on both sides. But from my experience, the desire for peace was more present in the hearts of the Israelis. The only peace the Palistinians and Lobonese said they would see, is when Israel was, and I quote...

"Torn off the map by the hand of God"

That seems pretty clear. Although, I think it was my translator that replaced Allah wth God, perhaps thinking I would not understand and quite frankly at that point in my life, he wouldn't have been far from wrong, lol.

Yet to me, as a UN Soldier, I was treated well, better then I ever got in Quebec, lol.

Now with all that said, is peace in the minds of the Israeli politicians? This is perhaps why I am so strident about my position, bacause mine is based on the ground, the citizenry, not in ivory towers of the ruling elite. I do not know? Their actions say no, the masses say yes.

All in all earth, as long as people deny the effects and shear butcherous intent of the Hezbollah and Hamas, I will fight them all the way. I have seen what these groups do to people first hand, you think your pictures do justice of the depravity of death. You are wrong. It is an image that is burned in to your brain forever. But the IDF's cruelty is blind, it is not manifested at the hands of a man, but rather at the switch of a machine, for the most part. The butchery the two terrorist groups do, is malicious in intent and cruel in the most primordial way. On there own people that err, on those they think are infiltrators, on thosethey want to remove from their way. They are more indiscriminant then you know. You will not hear of the killings on the evening news, unless you tune into a Lebonese station. These people live and operate freely by coersion and brutality. I have seen it.

Why do you think I rally so hard against them or those that support them?

Do you truly think me a monster?

 

[earth_as_one]

Why do you think I rally so hard against them or those that support them?

Do you truly think me a monster?

I can't answer that question. I don't know you. But you can answer that question for yourself.

In a previous post, you referenced an article which states Palestinians were never really a people. The implication of that statement is that they aren't human beings like the rest of us.

Before Israel existed, these "people" who I refer to as "Palestinians" legally owned land and property. They had rights. When the UN created the Zionist state of Israel, these people ceased to have the same rights as their Jewish neighbors. The Zionists in control of the Zionist state of Israel used military force, terrorist tactics and racist laws to drive these people off their land and confiscate their property.

When I say "confiscate their property" I'm talking about everything... land, jewelry, bank accounts, furniture... When Jewish refugees resettled in Israel, some moved into fully furnished homes, complete with family portraits of the people who were forcibly removed. Others moved into houses, built over the ruins of razed villages.... If I understand your posts, you are saying "Palestinians" never owned their property or had any rights because 2000 years ago, a Jewish nation once existed in Palestine. You must not believe that "Palestinians" are human beings deserving of equal treatment. Otherwise how could you support what has been done to them.

CDNbear, what do you make of this incident?

Tuesday, July 23, 2002.

An Israeli warplane flattened an apartment building in the Gaza Strip early Tuesday, killing at least 15 people...

...The children who were killed in the strike were reported to be aged between two months and 13 years. About 140 people were injured in the attack, and local officials said that more people could be buried under the rubble....

...Prime Minister Ariel Sharon - who reportedly gave his personal approval for the air strike... hailed the operation as "a great success".

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0723-04.htm

The successful attack not only levelled the entire apartment building but also collapsed nearby buildings. The explosion killed nearly everyone in the apartment building, but the shock wave killed and wounded people for some distance. Entire familes died in the attack.

Do you think the people approved this mission like PM Ariel Sharon, knew dropping 1000 lbs of high explosive on an residential apartment block would kill innocent people... including children and babies? Is the above act "butchery"? Was it "malicious in intent and cruel in the most primordial way"? Is this an example of "cold blooded murder"?

How would you describe these kinds of attacks on innocent civilians?

That one incident is typical of what "Palestinians" endure on a daily basis. I can reference hundreds of examples just like the above. For the most part, these incidents don't make our news.

If you lost your family this way, would you feel hatred against those responsible? Would you make extreme statements about what you would do in revenge?

Like everyone else in North America, I am aware of the atrocities committed by people who resist Zionism. Israelis suffer an occasional bomb, but for the most part, their suffering isn't on the same scale as Palestinians. Israelis aren't being starved into submission right now.

I do not support violence, but I do support the right to be heard. That's why I post the Palestinian viewpoint.

I support the fundamental human right to resist injustice and oppression. I just disagree with using violence to fight for freedom and justice. If I could, I would give every Palestinian a video recorder and a website. If the world saw what the Zionsists do to these people, we would be shamed into action.

The Zionist state of Israel is not a victim. Zionists do not fight for freedom or justice. They fight to expand Israel's borders and take away rights and property of non-Jews. Zionist use violence to take everything Palestinians once had. They don't care about the suffering of non-Jews. I can't support this, can you?

Israelis benefit directly from what Zionists take from Palestinians. Israeli citizens elect and re-elect people who have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity. They are partly responsible for Palestinian suffering. Some Israelis are innocent victims, but sizable minority support Zionism, fully aware of what that means to "Palestinians". People who support injustice and oppression are not innocent victims.

The nations which voted to create the Zionist state of Israel in the middle of a predominately Muslim/Arab area are also responsible for the consequences of their actions.

Are you a monster? Only you can answer that. Do you support cold blooded murder?

 

[Sassylassie]

Earth wrote: Are you a monster? Only you can answer that. Do you support cold blooded murder?

Earth you should take off your blinders "Cold Blooded Murder" is happening on both sides. Palestinians can't fire rockets into Israel and harm her people ( article the top of the page) and expect no payback. For you to lament the suffering of the Palestinian people while emiting no concern, care or warmth towards Isreal you are supporting the cold blooded murder of the innocent Isrealies. Frankly I'm sick of the Palestinians reliving history and rewriting it, it they "Truely" want peace lay down there rockets, there guns, there weapons and let the UN oversee a peace treaty. Since the dawn of time man has waged war citing a god like being as the reason, man has pillaged, slaughtered, raped and stolen the lands of those who lost those battles. Isreal isn't any different, the ME and Palestine need to get their heads out of the sand and come into the 21st century. I'm tired of there incessant wailing in the media, **** happens move on and try and build a future by accepting Isreals right to exist. It's just dirt, and it isn't worth killing or dying for.

 

[CDNBear]

I can't answer that question. I don't know you. But you can answer that question for yourself.

In a previous post, you referenced an article which states Palestinians were never really a people. The implication of that statement is that they aren't human beings like the rest of us.

Now your acting like Logic7, reading commentary that is not there. I never stated that, that is how YOU wished to interpret it. They were however not a "race" of people as it were, they were the inhabitants of an area. The name not only included Arab peoples, but Christian and Jew alike. Israelites and Judea has a far more reaching historical context and referrence base then the Palestinians can claim. Not only Biblically, but in the Quran, the biggest weapon against Israel going.

Besides, we've been down this road, you feel that Israel has no land claim here, I do. Lets move on, without you putting words in my mouth.

CDNbear, what do you make of this incident?

Without a more unbiased and objective source, not much, no one could come to any other conclusion, then the one you did, if they only read that source. But I gather, the IDF had retaliated for a rocket strike, from that complex. Although your source would never even elude to that fact.

Do you think the people approved this mission like PM Ariel Sharon, knew dropping 1000 lbs of high explosive on an residential apartment block would kill innocent people... including children and babies?

I should not speak for the people of Israel, but if I must make an answer...

Not all would concure with the action, but perhaps those that are frustrated, fearful and a tad tired of dawn gas masks and running for the bomb shelters everytime some fringe element or terrorist group gets their balls in a knot, might not see the end result as that bad. Think about the grass on the other side of the fence.

Is the above act "butchery"?

It depends on how you look at it. As reprisal, it is a bit extreme. Like I have ALREADY stated, perhaps the IDF could rethink their reaction and targetting strategy.

But here's the million dollar question, if the body count is so high and so terrible, why would those that wish to rid the occupied territory of the Israeli presence, fire rockets into Israel, if the outcome is the emmence death of their own people?

Here's a clue, they don't care.

Was it "malicious in intent and cruel in the most primordial way"?

No, it is an ill concieved kneejerk reaction to an ever present threat of anihalation.

Is this an example of "cold blooded murder"?

No. It is an example of,,,see my precious answer.

How would you describe these kinds of attacks on innocent civilians?

These reprisals are not direct attacks on the civilian population, they are attacks on locations that have been identified as the launching point of rockets fired into Israel.

If you lost your family this way, would you feel hatred against those responsible?

Yes I would. I would seek out the Hezbollah or Hamas cells responsible for inciting such a response. Because they knew full well what Israel's reaction would be, but put my families life in the line of fire anyways and for no reason.

Would you make extreme statements about what you would do in revenge?

No. I would just commit my revenge and be done with it. I would seek out and either kill the Hezbollah or Hamas cells responsible, or die trying.

I support the fundamental human right to resist injustice and oppression. I just disagree with using violence to fight for freedom and justice. If I could, I would give every Palestinian a video recorder and a website. If the world saw what the Zionsists do to these people, we would be shamed into action.

They likely would have the camcorder confiscated by the first Hezbollah militiaman, that was caught using his gun to force poeple to stay in the area they just fired a rocket into Israel from.

I can't support this, can you?

If I only had your word to go on? Yes. I don't though, I have first hand experience and a broader visage of the whole affair. So I support Israe's righ to exist. That is not to say I support or condone all their actions.

Do you support cold blooded murder?

No I do not. I support Israel, I support Israel's right to exist and defend itself from the aggressions of its genocidal neighbours.

 

[Karlin]

Who are The Zionists?

All this blather and bullsh*t and still there is no way to know just who is a Zionist and who are not a Zionist within Israel. No census taken to ask Jews in Israel if they are Zionists or not.

Well ya!! of course not - Zionism isn't really a type of person, it was a movement - the Jews returning to Israel is "Zionism". So how could it be such a big problem for so many rascists out there?

AS for the arguement taht there were no Arabs in Israel before the Zionism, it is answered in the past part of the same paragraph that said it :
[in 1880] "Only about 120,000 Arabs resided in an area that now comprises the State of Israel, Jordan and the so-called "West Bank"
"The Arabs did, however, constitute a majority over the sparsely populated countryside abutting Jerusalem."

They were there. This is dumb stuff

 

[Zzarchov]

In response to the Question Bear asked on the first page in regards to my second post:

While I know many people DO have to pay for the sins of their fathers (or mothers), I don't think that's right. The world as it should be and as it is are always vastly different and I acknowledge that.