Budget OK KOs coalition

[Praxius]

Praxius:

The problem with Layton is he votes against EVERYTHING, before even seeing it. what credibility is that?

Well even I knew this budget would be crap before details came out. If Harper wanted to present a decent budget, he should have done it back in October when he originally had the chance.... rather, he played his own set of political games, delayed out democracy until now and dishes us out this half-assed plan that has very little chance or working.

Funny how one party gets all the crap for playing political games while the one's casing most of the problems keep getting away with it. *shrugs*

I would agree with him more if he said "I'll look at it first, then vote." The guy is just as much a joke as the other 2. The only difference is that Ignatieff has been leader for what, 1 1/2 months, and has 2 days of parliamentary experience as leader - and you expect him to go to the polls (where there would be NO change in the current goverment) or lead a coalition which would cause unity, constitutional and parliamentary problems during an economic crisis?

There wern't any unity problems until Harper starting going off about seperatist this and that and lying to the country about their coalition approach as being illegal.

For me, a true leader would do the right thing for the country, not the right thing for his party via political games. When you put your party above the country in priority, then you lose from the start, but that's just me.

If he actually took the risk and did what was needed for this nation, that action wouldn't go un-noticed and he might have actually gotten my vote next time around along with a number of other people.

But all of the above problems you listed in regards to the coalition are merely speculative based on fearmongering from Harper. Coalitions worked in the past, they can work again in the future.... .but not this time apparently.

While I don't like it - it was the smartest move that he (Iggy) could make. Until the Liberals have time to get their house in order, that;'s what we are going to get.

The only hope I have is that they get their act together sooner rather than later. (like in the next 6 months).

Mark my words - we will have an election before the year is out. Hopefully in 6 months - before any real damage is caused.

Fair enough, however I feel the damage has already been done before the last election was called..... everything from here on in is just twisting of the blade already deep in the flesh...... but I guess sometimes the blade has to go all the way in, before it can go all the way out. Whether or not the nation can survive in a decent manner through this operation remains to be seen.

 

[dancing-loon]

Much.

Now - I've got Monty Python running through my head right now (paraphased):
Peasant: I'm 37...
King Arthur: What?
Peasant: I'm 37, I'm not old
King Arthur: Well, I can't just call you "Grouch"

Alright Peasant... then you are just a kid with a knack for politics!! :lol:

 

[lone wolf]

Layton has a heart?? Prove it!

Blood gets around somehow....

 

[Praxius]

Amazing, how many different interpretations there are of this latest Liberal move. You could be quite right. This way the Liberals still keep their #2 position and gain time to get organized for the next election, which is much needed.
I don't think Jack and his NDP will ever make it to the top.

They would if I was leader.... I'd tell it how it is :twisted:

 

[Risus]

Layton has a heart?? Prove it!

Hmmm, I think you might have a point there...

 

[Cannuck]

Blood gets around somehow....

He could be a vampire.

 

[L Gilbert]

Cool!! Let's play 50 threads about the same subject, just like the Israel/Palestine/Gaza threads game.

 

[lone wolf]

He could be a vampire.

You'd have to explain the theory of sucking....

 

[Risus]

Praxius:

The problem with Layton is he votes against EVERYTHING, before even seeing it. what credibility is that? I would agree with him more if he said "I'll look at it first, then vote." The guy is just as much a joke as the other 2. The only difference is that Ignatieff has been leader for what, 1 1/2 months, and has 2 days of parliamentary experience as leader - and you expect him to go to the polls (where there would be NO change in the current goverment) or lead a coalition which would cause unity, constitutional and parliamentary problems during an economic crisis?

While I don't like it - it was the smartest move that he (Iggy) could make. Until the Liberals have time to get their house in order, that;'s what we are going to get.

The only hope I have is that they get their act together sooner rather than later. (like in the next 6 months).

Mark my words - we will have an election before the year is out. Hopefully in 6 months - before any real damage is caused.

Mark my words - when the next election is over, the Conservatives will have a majority, the liberals about where they are now, and the NDP will have nothing. The coalition BS will come back to haunt both the libs and ndp.

 

[lone wolf]

Mark my words - when the next election is over, the Conservatives will have a majority, the liberals about where they are now, and the NDP will have nothing. The coalition BS will come back to haunt both the libs and ndp.

You mean like the Kim Campbell majority? No PM or Premier survives a recession. They catch all the blame. Just ask Rae....

 

[pegger]

Well even I knew this budget would be crap before details came out. If Harper wanted to present a decent budget, he should have done it back in October when he originally had the chance.... rather, he played his own set of political games, delayed out democracy until now and dishes us out this half-assed plan that has very little chance or working.

100% agreed.

There wern't any unity problems until Harper starting going off about seperatist this and that and lying to the country about their coalition approach as being illegal.

Also agreed - but the seed was planted and that's the reality of the situation.

For me, a true leader would do the right thing for the country, not the right thing for his party via political games. When you put your party above the country in priority, then you lose from the start, but that's just me.

If he actually took the risk and did what was needed for this nation, that action wouldn't go un-noticed and he might have actually gotten my vote next time around along with a number of other people.

Again, agreed. I long for a leader too. What i DO know is Harper is not a leader. Neither is Layton. Igantieff, I'm not ready to call on yet, because one decision (right or wrong) does not a poor leader make. What I like about Igantieff is that he is much more eloquent and "mature" than the other 2 (Harper and Layton) I don't agree with his decision on the budget, but I understand it.

Fair enough, however I feel the damage has already been done before the last election was called..... everything from here on in is just twisting of the blade already deep in the flesh...... but I guess sometimes the blade has to go all the way in, before it can go all the way out. Whether or not the nation can survive in a decent manner through this operation remains to be seen.

Again, I agree. The problem with the last election is that a lot of people bought into Harper's campaign. Also, a lot didn't bother to vote. Now, we get to live with the results of those decisions.

If you're really bothered by it - run for office. I'd vote for ya!

 

[pegger]

Mark my words - when the next election is over, the Conservatives will have a majority, the liberals about where they are now, and the NDP will have nothing. The coalition BS will come back to haunt both the libs and ndp.

Risus - the only way the Conservatives will ever get a majority is if they dump Harper. He is beyond damaged goods. He ran like a little girl to hide from a confidence vote, then capitulated on his "principles" and produced a sub-standard budget.

The sooner the Conservative membership realize this, the better (for the Conservatives).

 

[Praxius]

Mark my words - when the next election is over, the Conservatives will have a majority, the liberals about where they are now, and the NDP will have nothing. The coalition BS will come back to haunt both the libs and ndp.

What and you're not going to factor in all the crap the Conservatives have been doing so far? So in your logic they get away scott free for this crap and should diserve a majority?

You mention the Coalition hurting the Liberals and NDP..... but if it wasn't for Harper pulling his dumbass little tricks and did his job in the first place, the coalition concept would have never seen the light of day.

But somehow they're all innocent from their involvement in this situation?

Me thinks not.

Mark my words, the next election is going to end up as yet another minority.... it won't matter who's leading the minority.... it'll be another minority that doesn't work.

Why?

Because Canadians are now divided.... West against Quebec, Ontario and Atlantic Canada, Ontario against Quebec, the West and Atlantic Canada, Quebec against Central and Western Canada and the Atlantics against Central and Western Canada as well......

And I sure as hell don't see anybody coming along to unite this country to bring it out of the mess it's currently in...... as no one party or leader has any interest in all of Canada.... just their little corner of it.

And Canada will be doomed to fail unless this changes..... slowly, as it has been happening for so long now, this country is going to break apart..... and if we don't break apart, then we'll simply be worse drones then we already are...... forever letting the same two parties do whatever they please, so long as they keep things somewhat soap operaish on TV to make us think they actually care and are doing something.

 

[Praxius]

100% agreed.

Also agreed - but the seed was planted and that's the reality of the situation.

Unfortunatly.

Again, agreed. I long for a leader too. What i DO know is Harper is not a leader. Neither is Layton. Igantieff, I'm not ready to call on yet, because one decision (right or wrong) does not a poor leader make. What I like about Igantieff is that he is much more eloquent and "mature" than the other 2 (Harper and Layton) I don't agree with his decision on the budget, but I understand it.

I agree on the view of Iggy, but you know what they say about first impressions.... and when the first impression is more of the same, that puts a dent into the whole thing for me.

Layton did pull out a few sweater jokes from time to time.... I actually found them funny and a nice change from the normal bickering back and forth that normally doesn't get things done.... I liked the fact that he stirred crap up, but when he talked to the media or the public during the elections, he was straight forward, honest with the details available and actually focused on the questions presented to him that are concerns of the general public without beating around the bush with side-line comments like the Liberals or the Conservatives. (Dion/Harper)

Out of the available parties, I personally felt that the NDP help the most promise in actually focusing on the job at hand. During the election, the majority of their PR was in regards to their own plans on fixing things, with a few side shots at the other party's failures..... where the other parties just simply unleashed nothing but attacks on each other and really never explained their own platforms.

But beyond all of that, somehow the NDP got generalized as some wing-nut party more incompetent then the already Proven-To-Be-Incompetent parties.

For me, I figured if we're going to go through another bogus election, that perhaps some type of change would be nice for the majority of people in Canada.

And yet, the Conservatives get back into power.... next time it'll be the Liberals..... then the Conservatives..... Liberals.... and so on.

And while all that's happening, the rest of the Canadian population sits around, bickering and complaining about how screwed things are, how it seems the government isn't doing its job.... that they've been lied to yet again by so and so....... but they just keep on voting in the same old routine..... so no wonder why things are so screwed up.

I simply just don't get it.

Again, I agree. The problem with the last election is that a lot of people bought into Harper's campaign. Also, a lot didn't bother to vote. Now, we get to live with the results of those decisions.

If you're really bothered by it - run for office. I'd vote for ya!

If I knew how to make the right steps to do so and I had the means, I most probably would..... but I eventually do plan on pulling an Iggy and leaving the country for a few years, so I don't know what they would do with my chances.

That and I'm not quite 30 years old yet.... maybe in a couple of more years when I fit into the stereo-typical political age bracket of an old fart, I might stand a chance..... but by that time, I have doubts there'd be much worth while to come back to...... I mean no offense, but this pattern in our government is gradually rotting our country from the inside out.

 

[Ron in Regina]

In a year or two (or three, or maybe even four), much of the results of the next
Federal Election will come down to which Party has the fattest wallet and can
therefore afford the most spin directed at the bulk of Canadians that are only
aware of politics in the few weeks preceding an election.

Knock the Conservatives all you want but they really do know how to raise
funds from their supporters. Ignatieff had best learn this skill and very quickly
if he wishes to ever become PM. The Liberal Party is so close to broke that
any election will not happen anytime soon, and the Liberals will have to back
the Conservatives until they can afford not to, or an election is forced upon
them by the Conservatives. That's what we witnessed yesterday. You can
beat this Ignatieff up all you want but what else could he do? 8O

 

[Risus]

You mean like the Kim Campbell majority? No PM or Premier survives a recession. They catch all the blame. Just ask Rae....

You can't use Rae as an example: he was as big an idiot as Layton, and he destroyed Ontario....

 

[Colpy]

What a damn shame.

The idiot Jack Layton conspires with Seperatists, drags the Liberal Party down the road to perdition, giving Harper a perfect opportunity to standfast and shoot the Liberal Party right between the eyes...........and Harper misses his chance.

The coalition was a stepping stone to a Conservative Party majority.....but Harper lost his nerve, and now can't get off his knees in front of Ignatieff.

You did a great job with the CPC, Steve, but you paniced and blew it in the end.

 

[lone wolf]

You can't use Rae as an example: he was as big an idiot as Layton, and he destroyed Ontario....

Ah your wisdom is eclipsed only by .... well, reality.

 

[lone wolf]

What a damn shame.

The idiot Jack Layton conspires with Seperatists, drags the Liberal Party down the road to perdition, giving Harper a perfect opportunity to standfast and shoot the Liberal Party right between the eyes...........and Harper misses his chance.

The coalition was a stepping stone to a Conservative Party majority.....but Harper lost his nerve, and now can't get off his knees in front of Ignatieff.

You did a great job with the CPC, Steve, but you paniced and blew it in the end.

So ... who really IS the idiot?

 

[pegger]

In a year or two (or three, or maybe even four), much of the results of the next
Federal Election will come down to which Party has the fattest wallet and can
therefore afford the most spin directed at the bulk of Canadians that are only
aware of politics in the few weeks preceding an election.

Unfortunately, that is the truth. Part of the reason I am not against the $1.95 per vote subsidy....