Ayn Rand - Right Wing Hypocrite

[gopher]

'' Doing whatever is necessary to sustain life is a human trait that generally trumps all other attributes.''

Shouldn't one be honest about it? After all, she claimed to be of unimpeachable integrity and others hold her as being so.

 

[JLM]

'' Doing whatever is necessary to sustain life is a human trait that generally trumps all other attributes.''

Shouldn't one be honest about it? After all, she claimed to be of unimpeachable integrity and others hold her as being so.

She was in a life and death situation battling lung cancer. There's an old adage that covers situations like this-- "Judge not lest ye be judged". :lol:And there's another one that goes something like mind your own business.

 

[Machjo]

'' Doing whatever is necessary to sustain life is a human trait that generally trumps all other attributes.''

Shouldn't one be honest about it? After all, she claimed to be of unimpeachable integrity and others hold her as being so.

So Gopher, if I believe we should not be subsidizing bus tickets, yet then go out and buy a subsidized bus ticket, am I being a hypocrite?

Honestly, there are a few points here:

I personally believe that taxes for road construction and maintenance ought to be more user-pay, such as via some kind of resource tax. That is not the case, and for the most part we all pay equally for road use regardless of our usage. Well, seeing that I'm paying into it via regular taxes, should I therefore refuse to use roads because I'm not paying for them via a more user-pay system? I may not agree with how I'm paying for it, but I am so I might as well use it right?

 

[JLM]

So Gopher, if I believe we should not be subsidizing bus tickets, yet then go out and buy a subsidized bus ticket, am I being a hypocrite?

Honestly, there are a few points here:

I personally believe that taxes for road construction and maintenance ought to be more user-pay, such as via some kind of resource tax. That is not the case, and for the most part we all pay equally for road use regardless of our usage. Well, seeing that I'm paying into it via regular taxes, should I therefore refuse to use roads because I'm not paying for them via a more user-pay system? I may not agree with how I'm paying for it, but I am so I might as well use it right?

You're making sense- he's not. :smile:

 

[Machjo]

''Why are you so concerned about the lifestyle of someone that has been dead for a quarter of a century?''

You did not catch the full drift of my cite or what others have said here - Rand is considered the absolute goddess of right wing ideology. In fact, there was a brief blurb in the news the other day that her books are selling at an all time high because of the belief people have in her stated views. She is genuinely regarded as the nearest thing to a goddess! Yet, her lifestyle belied her stated beliefs - the same beliefs that garnered her hundreds of thousands of dollars per year!

What incredible hypocrisy!

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''Does acting according to a system one is against make one a hypocrite?''

Of course it does and impeaches all possible credibility.

I'll take an example you might be able to relate to, Gopher. If I'm not mistaken, you'd like to see military spending cut in your country. As it turns out that is not the case and so you must pay more taxes to maintain your military whether you like it or not. As a result of that you have less money to buy your own insurance for instance. As a result of that, should you ever get lost in the mountains one day, seeing that you have paid into it through taxes, whether you agreed to it or not being another matter, should you not therefore be able to benefit from the US military's search and rescue services?

Now I understand you might not agree that you should have been paying taxes into it in the first place, fair enough. However, like it or not, you do pay into it, so should you not therefore be able to benefit form it too while still reserving the right to condemn the fact that you're forced to pay into it and had the choice been yours you'd rather have been paying into a civilian search and rescue team, or bought your own private insurance for a private search and rescue team, etc.?

You see what I'm getting at? She did pay into it.

 

[JLM]

''Why are you so concerned about the lifestyle of someone that has been dead for a quarter of a century?''

You did not catch the full drift of my cite or what others have said here - Rand is considered the absolute goddess of right wing ideology. In fact, there was a brief blurb in the news the other day that her books are selling at an all time high because of the belief people have in her stated views. She is genuinely regarded as the nearest thing to a goddess! Yet, her lifestyle belied her stated beliefs - the same beliefs that garnered her hundreds of thousands of dollars per year!

What incredible hypocrisy!

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''Does acting according to a system one is against make one a hypocrite?''

Of course it does and impeaches all possible credibility.

What you've cited is how she is regarded by others. Am I a hypocrite because someone thinks I'm a nice guy? :lol:

 

[Machjo]

By the way, I would not consider Gopher a hypocrite for benefiting from government services he disagrees with since, whether he agrees with them or not, it doesn't change the fact that he does pay into them in taxes. Even if he criticized taxpayer funding for these services while also benefiting from them, I still would not consider him a hypocrite since I could understand that his intent would be that had he not had to pay taxes for that service to begin with, he'd then have the money to buy his own.

 

[JLM]

By the way, I would not consider Gopher a hypocrite for benefiting from government services he disagrees with since, whether he agrees with them or not, it doesn't change the fact that he does pay into them in taxes. Even if he criticized taxpayer funding for these services while also benefiting from them, I still would not consider him a hypocrite since I could understand that his intent would be that had he not had to pay taxes for that service to begin with, he'd then have the money to buy his own.

This discussion aside I think there is a good chance she could be a bit of bitch alright. Pretty self serving, I think.

 

[Machjo]

This discussion aside I think there is a good chance she could be a bit of bitch alright. Pretty self serving, I think.

Oh without a doubt. From the bit I have read of Ayn Rand, she does seem to be pretty petty and heartless. That's a separate unrelated matter though.

 

[JLM]

Oh without a doubt. From the bit I have read of Ayn Rand, she does seem to be pretty petty and heartless. That's a separate unrelated matter though.

Yep.

Oh without a doubt. From the bit I have read of Ayn Rand, she does seem to be pretty petty and heartless. That's a separate unrelated matter though.

Could that be attributed to her region of origin? :lol:

 

[Machjo]

Yep.



Could that be attributed to her region of origin? :lol:

Soviet Russia?

Hard to say. That country was extremely authoritarian and oppressive of religion. I'd been reading recently though that apparently it wasn't as bad as we'd portrayed it in the west, but still oppressive of religion none-the-less. That could possibly explain her extreme atheism that I'd read about.

As for her extreme capitalism, well, who knows, maybe that was a reaction to the authoritarianism she'd experienced in the USSR? Who knows, just pure speculation on my part.

 

[Bar Sinister]

Atlas Shrugged. Perhaps he was trying to say who gives a dam about all this right wing garbage.

 

[damngrumpy]

Again I hear people simply calling one system down and advocating for another. Either Socialism
or Capitalism. The Truth is, no system can work as a stand alone entity today. I say that because
we on this planet are part of an interlocking societies. Some Conservative, some Liberal and others
are Socialist. We have to work within all these systems, it is how the world works. There are many
good ideas that come from the left such as medicare for example. The problem is not the coverage
it is great, everyone that wants to be or needs to be can be covered by some means.
The problem is with the exception of Saskatchewan, the other Provinces and the Federal Government
never planned the future costs of the program. In other words, we put the program together and then
implemented it without providing for adequate financing over the future decades.
The problem is not medicare, its the cost that was not accounted for when the program was instituted.
On the other hand we have more free enterprise governments that buy submarines and knowing they
don't work we buy them anyway and the public pays for them even though the original cost was not
provided for on a long term basis.
Programs and purchases are not the problem it is the incompetent people administering the program or
purchase that is the problem.

 

[TenPenny]

"Judge not lest ye be judged".

But that is distinctly against her own stated beliefs. Therefore, it should not apply in this situation. If, as you suggest, one's strongest held beliefs, which one preaches to be absolute truths, can be tossed aside the moment they become inconvenient, they can hardly be touted as absolute truths to which the world must adhere.

In her death, she made a mockery of all that she held holy during her life, which, to me, highlights the silliness of that belief system. And makes a person question the need to continue to tout her beliefs as something special, as many do.

 

[JLM]

Again I hear people simply calling one system down and advocating for another. Either Socialism
or Capitalism. The Truth is, no system can work as a stand alone entity today. I say that because
we on this planet are part of an interlocking societies. Some Conservative, some Liberal and others
are Socialist. We have to work within all these systems, it is how the world works. There are many
good ideas that come from the left such as medicare for example. The problem is not the coverage
it is great, everyone that wants to be or needs to be can be covered by some means.
The problem is with the exception of Saskatchewan, the other Provinces and the Federal Government
never planned the future costs of the program. In other words, we put the program together and then
implemented it without providing for adequate financing over the future decades.
The problem is not medicare, its the cost that was not accounted for when the program was instituted.
On the other hand we have more free enterprise governments that buy submarines and knowing they
don't work we buy them anyway and the public pays for them even though the original cost was not
provided for on a long term basis.
Programs and purchases are not the problem it is the incompetent people administering the program or
purchase that is the problem.

You got that right. The main problem with Medicare is people are not prepared to fund it, they have a hard time equating that Gov't. funding means each of us as individuals and think of it as "free medical". Medical coverage in Canada costs on average about $108 a month for a family- I'll bet if that was raised to $150 a month, Medicare would no longer be a problem. People just don't value their health enough. It's the most important asset we have (for those of us who have it)

But that is distinctly against her own stated beliefs. Therefore, it should not apply in this situation. If, as you suggest, one's strongest held beliefs, which one preaches to be absolute truths, can be tossed aside the moment they become inconvenient, they can hardly be touted as absolute truths to which the world must adhere.

In her death, she made a mockery of all that she held holy during her life, which, to me, highlights the silliness of that belief system. And makes a person question the need to continue to tout her beliefs as something special, as many do.

No doubt she was a bitch, I was just trying to differentiate between what she considered good as a system from her own personal practices. :smile:

 

[TenPenny]

No doubt she was a bitch, I was just trying to differentiate between what she considered good as a system from her own personal practices.

Yes, that's a distinction that she didn't believe in, until it was convenient for her.

 

[JLM]

Yes, that's a distinction that she didn't believe in, until it was convenient for her.

Yeah, I'd say she had a bit of an attitude. :lol:

 

[captain morgan]

You got that right. The main problem with Medicare is people are not prepared to fund it, they have a hard time equating that Gov't. funding means each of us as individuals and think of it as "free medical". Medical coverage in Canada costs on average about $108 a month for a family- I'll bet if that was raised to $150 a month, Medicare would no longer be a problem. People just don't value their health enough. It's the most important asset we have (for those of us who have it)

Kudos

 

[Unforgiven]

No surprises there, most right wing people are hypocrites.

 

[JLM]

No surprises there, most right wing people are hypocrites.

Absolutely, coincidentally about the exact percentage as left wing hypocrites. :smile: