It can always do with more study, I agree. So far that's about all the gov'ts have been doing. And because fish farming is lucrative, they don't want to do something to annoy fish farmers. So in the meantime, the louse infestation and its followup pesticide pollution, escapes, interference with the food chain of indigent species, etc. continues.
Atlantic salmon escape their farm
- Thread starter AnnaG
- Start date
There's about 15,000 free ranging bison in NorthAm, the last I herd
I really hope that everything won't be domesticated. Some things can't be and if what you think actually comes to pass, then biodiversity is gone and life will eventually cease to exist on Earth.
Transplanting foreign species is the stupidest thing (besides processing petroleum) that humans have ever done.
I somewhat agree.
However fish farms have not as yet adapted farmed salmon to a vegetable based feed.
As a result fishing fleets are strip-mining the southern oceans of herring and anchovy type species.
These small fish are processed into a ground feed source for the fish farms.
On a by-weight basis it takes roughly 4 times the volume of the feed fish to raise a salmon.
On top of that the anchovy and herring species are more appropriate (from a health perspective) as a human food source than the salmon.
This is because heavy metals and carcinogenics tend to increase and become more concentrated as you move up the food chain.
Thus those smaller fish would actually be a better food source.
Also that Slice stuff they use to treat the sea lice is really toxic and nasty.
Also they add a carotene like dye to the salmon feed. If they didn't the farmed salmon tend to have a visually unappealing grey flesh.
I refuse to eat farmed salmon myself.
To each his own
Trex
That's the human way. As much, as fast, as possible. Just think of Chile. They doubled the total production of finfish twice between 1995 and 2007. Then they got hit with disease, Salmon Rickettsial Septicemia, Infectious Pancreatic Necrosis, and Infectious Salmon Anemia. Nasty stuff. They also have the Caligus louse down there.
Funny enough, Marine Harvest has a big stake in Chilean Atlantic Salmon production. A Norwegian company with deep pockets.
Canada has better management, but that's all relative, considering the problems that still exist.
Amoebas can do that...... Bump. "hhmmm Is it food?" Bump, taste. "Nope. Not food. On to the next item that looks like food".
Toad plague in Oz. Instead of putting a few toads in plexiglass boxes with pesky beetles and observing the interaction, they just let loose toads into the environment. That takes real genius. As it sits, the toads ignore the beetles they were supposed to get rid of and end up killing anything animalian they brush up against.
Cane toads are poisonous.
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Every year the diet formulations are getting better. I attended a seminar with a nutritionist working in Norway last year, and the company he works for has a goal of zero marine protein and fatty acid. They've already completed phase one, and are partway through phase two. Phase three will bring it to zero.
This is partly out of necessity, and partly due to marketing. The aim for their company is a salmon that still has a good mix of EHA and DPA fatty acids, with less of the bioaccumulated toxins. A double whammy for health benefits.
The bait fish landed hasn't increased at all over the years that aquaculture has grown. They were being strip mined before, for human nutritional supplements, for pharmaceuticals, for animal feeds, for fishing bait...it's insane.
And for wild salmon, it is about 15 kg needed to produce 1 kg of Oncorhynchus salmonids. Alot is made of that number, but as I've said, every year it gets smaller and smaller. It has to out of necessity. The capture fishery for fish meal is stagnant, and the demand grows every year.
As I said, that is becoming less of an issue all the time. The pcb's in a serving of farmed salmon are lower than in a glass of milk, for some context, and lower than those in Chinook salmon ;-)
To be realistic, salmon isn't in the same category as herring or anchovies.
Yeah, that's what the 68 day withdrawal period is for. This will also be a problem of the past shortly. Turns out that sea lice resistant is a highly heritable trait (anything with a heirtability score above 0.3 is highly heritable). Breeding programs are now utilizing this.
The topic of my fourth year project last year! It reduces the severity and duration of the stress response in rainbow trout. Astaxanthin is a naturally occurring pigment.
Pretty much.
I've never had wild salmon before, except for smoked. We don't get fresh wild salmon out here...:-(
Tonington,I am still wondering if we are agreeing with one and another in principle or not ?
I suspect we are.
I happen to oppose the way we treating our oceans.
I can live with some West coast fish farms but I tend to agree with annaG and think they should either be in a contained loop or further offshore.
The Norwegians have done a pretty fair job of offshoring their fish
farming industries to places like South America and Canada.
They have also done a pretty good job of protecting their local wild salmon runs.
It falls to us to do the same.
I suspect we are.
I happen to oppose the way we treating our oceans.
I can live with some West coast fish farms but I tend to agree with annaG and think they should either be in a contained loop or further offshore.
The Norwegians have done a pretty fair job of offshoring their fish
farming industries to places like South America and Canada.
They have also done a pretty good job of protecting their local wild salmon runs.
It falls to us to do the same.
Ther were originally stocked to control the lamprey problem and protect the lake trout in the great lakes...
Thats because the trout came from an inland pond with a mud bottom. Although fish farms such as this one where the atlantics escaped would definitely taste good, they also create disease. Fish farms are a bad idea.
A conspiracy would say it was intentional, whatever, it can't be undone.
So how could Hudson's Bay be farmed, profitably and for long term, since it is now basically barren, fisheries could design their own 'Sea"?
How much to buy both Bays? $60-70 bucks?
As I said, I have tried farmed Atlantics, they don't taste that great. I'd rather eat chum salmon. Sockeye pr even pink is to Atlantic salmon as lasagna is to Kraft Mac & Cheese.
Oh I'm sure we are. About the wild fish, I only mention that as an example of just how far the nutritionists have gone in developing more sustainable feeds. At my school, the monogastric nutritionist has been working with the Canola Council. We've had good results with replacing fish oil/fish meal with canola. Without too much of a hit to the heart healthy omega fatty acids.
I've read the literature from both sides on this topic, and my conclusion is that salmon farms need to be under harsher scrutiny when applying for leases. In the direct path of wild salmon runs is a major no-no, and it is helping to drive the wild runs into endangerment.
Here's a private message exchange that Ron and I had. He allowed me to post it here, and I think they are good questions that perhaps some others may find useful.
Atlantic salmon do not die when they spawn. They do spend about 2-4 years at sea before returning to their natal rivers. The Pacific salmons do die at or shortly after spawning, for the most part because their journey to the spawning grounds is such an ordeal. Atlantic salmon do not have the grade up the rivers to deal with, or the gauntlet of fishing grizz. So they can spawn multiple times throughout their life.
It's hard to say. But they also have different characteristic environmental cues for spawning than the Pacific salmon. Temperature and photoperiod preferences are different. So they would not likely be spawning at the same time, if they were even spawning in the same river.
It's my pleasure! Paul
It's important to consider the context here. These species are separated by thousands of years of adaptation to their environments, and as such have very different evolutionary histories.
The Pacific salmon appear to have jumped into adjacent rivers as the glaciers retreated, as have the Atlantic salmon. These populations are all genetically distinct now. Their preferences are not the same.
The problem that I see, is it would be very difficult to test hypotheses here, because it's not that easy to find the Atlantics once they escape. It's hard to know where they will go. If you wanted to track them, you would have to monitor the many different rivers, which is economically unfeasible, or worse, intentionally release them. Perhaps the best option, is for the Government in BC to force all farms to provide the genotypes of the farm stock they are using. If there is any genetic pollution, one could examine the Pacific smolts and look for the Atlantic salmon markers which are not present in the Oncorhynchus salmonids.
As for competition...I don't really think that is much of an issue. As I said above the environmental cues which trigger spawning migration are different. It's unclear if the Atlantics would even travel as far upriver as the Pacifics.
Anyways, lots of good questions. Someone needs to find answers to these questions, so that better management plans can be put in place. And really the question is, should the farms (Atlantic salmon) even be there in the first place. There are native stocks of Steel head which could be a valuable addition genetically. Washington State is home to Trout Lodge, who ship rainbow trout eggs all over the world. the only difference is that the rainbow eggs are from a stock of rainbow that do not naturally migrate to sea. Adding the anadromous genetics to that product would be a better plan.
The issue is that the non-anadromous rainbow cannot osmoregulate as efficiently as the steel head version of the rainbow trout. They can go to sea, it's just that there is mortality when the trout are transferred from freshwater to sea water, unless they are diligently acclimated to sea water, which most hatcheries do not have the ability to do.
Well, I've rambled on enough now. See what you started Ron? LOL
Ron in Regina said:
Atlantic salmon do not die when they spawn. They do spend about 2-4 years at sea before returning to their natal rivers. The Pacific salmons do die at or shortly after spawning, for the most part because their journey to the spawning grounds is such an ordeal. Atlantic salmon do not have the grade up the rivers to deal with, or the gauntlet of fishing grizz. So they can spawn multiple times throughout their life.
The escapees were born in one of Marine Harvests hatcheries. I believe they have two, or possibly three hatcheries on Vancouver Island that produce the seed for the farms. So those escapees actually do not have home rivers. They would likely find a river that best conforms to the conditions in the hatchery, which could be getting the water directly from a river in the area.
It's hard to say. But they also have different characteristic environmental cues for spawning than the Pacific salmon. Temperature and photoperiod preferences are different. So they would not likely be spawning at the same time, if they were even spawning in the same river.
No. All salmon are anadromous fish. This means that they start their life in freshwater, migrate to sea to grow, and return to freshwater to spawn. It's unclear where the escapee Atlantics go. But it would have to be to some river or stream.
It's not possible for Atlantic salmon to make it back to the Atlantic. The migratory routes and timing of the migration would bring them through the Arctic, which is lethally cold to them at that time, or on some Southern route, which is lethally warm.
Not rambling at all. These are all good questions which are very relevant to the subject at hand. I think I will post them in case some others have the same thoughts.
It's my pleasure! Paul
It's important to consider the context here. These species are separated by thousands of years of adaptation to their environments, and as such have very different evolutionary histories.
The Pacific salmon appear to have jumped into adjacent rivers as the glaciers retreated, as have the Atlantic salmon. These populations are all genetically distinct now. Their preferences are not the same.
The problem that I see, is it would be very difficult to test hypotheses here, because it's not that easy to find the Atlantics once they escape. It's hard to know where they will go. If you wanted to track them, you would have to monitor the many different rivers, which is economically unfeasible, or worse, intentionally release them. Perhaps the best option, is for the Government in BC to force all farms to provide the genotypes of the farm stock they are using. If there is any genetic pollution, one could examine the Pacific smolts and look for the Atlantic salmon markers which are not present in the Oncorhynchus salmonids.
As for competition...I don't really think that is much of an issue. As I said above the environmental cues which trigger spawning migration are different. It's unclear if the Atlantics would even travel as far upriver as the Pacifics.
Anyways, lots of good questions. Someone needs to find answers to these questions, so that better management plans can be put in place. And really the question is, should the farms (Atlantic salmon) even be there in the first place. There are native stocks of Steel head which could be a valuable addition genetically. Washington State is home to Trout Lodge, who ship rainbow trout eggs all over the world. the only difference is that the rainbow eggs are from a stock of rainbow that do not naturally migrate to sea. Adding the anadromous genetics to that product would be a better plan.
The issue is that the non-anadromous rainbow cannot osmoregulate as efficiently as the steel head version of the rainbow trout. They can go to sea, it's just that there is mortality when the trout are transferred from freshwater to sea water, unless they are diligently acclimated to sea water, which most hatcheries do not have the ability to do.
Well, I've rambled on enough now. See what you started Ron? LOL
I have no idea what so ever why that happens with the quotes.
Yeah....cool. We don't get a whole lot of exposure to the Salmon's
life-cycle (East or West varieties) in the middle of the Prairie. I was
try'n to draw on a wild life program from back in the day when we
had three TV channels (& one of them was French). I guess they
where dealing with West coast Salmon. 8O :lol::lol::lol:
(Sad music & Lorne Green sort of thing)
Thank You.
Ron.