Arts Funding........Interview with Margie Gillis

[Tonington]

I wonder if anyone has looked at what kind of economic activity is generated by the investment by government? As an example, Kansas recently cut their arts funding completely, $575,000. But the arts generate $153.5 million in economic activity in the state, and $15 million in revenue for the state through tax receipts. Not only that, but there are ancillary benefits; art as part of an education curriculum produces higher test scores. A rich learning environment has many benefits over the basics.

But those are debates that never seem to be had.

I should add a caveat, I first learned of the situation in Kansas from a piece on tax payer funded CBC radio.

 

[petros]

Rap came along just shortly after music in schools was axed, slashed and burned.

You get what you pay for Niggas and Bitches.

 

[YukonJack]

Rap came along just shortly after music in schools was axed, slashed and burned.

You get what you pay for Niggas and Bitches.

And similarly, child obesity became a problem when games of tag, dodge ball and regular phys ed classes in schools were discontinued.

 

[petros]

And similarly, child obesity became a problem when games of tag, dodge ball and regular phys ed classes in schools were discontinued.

Exactly. When I was a kid we spent every recess and lunch hour playing football or hockey.

To us an X-Box was an ex-box that was one day a fire station or the next a submarine or something to slide down the slightest of snow covered grades.

We never got bored.

 

[Tonington]

And similarly, child obesity became a problem when games of tag, dodge ball and regular phys ed classes in schools were discontinued.

Also, most families don't live on farms where kids were expected to lend a hand.

Exactly. When I was a kid we spent every recess and lunch hour playing football or hockey.

For us it was baseball, soccer, hockey and basketball, at different times of the year. Later on in school I spent my recess and lunch hours on a sort of track team, chasing the girls

 

[petros]

Also, most families don't live on farms where kids were expected to lend a hand.

it's still like that today. Kid's aren't expected to show up for school during harvest. You won't see a farm kid over sixteen in class during that time. There are no qualms over it either.

For us it was baseball, soccer, hockey and basketball, at different times of the year. Later on in school I spent my recess and lunch hours on a sort of track team, chasing the girls

We didn't have to chase the girls. The puck bunnies chased us.

 

[Tonington]

it's still like that today. Kid's aren't expected to show up for school during harvest.

Just for the kids who live on farms, which are dwarfed by the number of kids in urban/sub-urban areas

We didn't have to chase the girls. The puck bunnies chased us.

Living petri dishes of nasty cell culture, that's what the puck bunnies were in my town.

Also, the chase is half the fun.

 

[Machjo]

Simple solution. People who feel deeply about the arts, should fund it from their pockets. Not the public purse.

Agreed. My point was it doesn't give a Sun News interviewer to treat an artist with disrespect just because she is receiving public funding. She did not decide how much the government should give her.

People who feel deeply about the arts, who are inclined toward the arts, are not necessarily aware of it, and wouldn't necessarily ever be nurtured in it, without first learning a bit about it. That's the tricky part. Without art teachers, you have no way of encouraging a troubled youth to try picking up a pencil. There is a basic level of art funding needed to keep its educational component alive.

trips overseas to dance? yeah, not so much. But basic education level funding, if it were to disappear, would be a huge disservice to numerous programs that currently exist. Art therapy and art outreach are ones for example, that I have seen work wonders to bridge cultural gaps between white and native students, and native students and their teachers. When you find that talent in a kid that the educational system had written off, and suddenly can make school worth his while, that's HUGE. And it's important for our society.

I'm all for increased funding for arts education in universal public education via provincial ministries of education in public schools. Not otherwise.

I wonder if anyone has looked at what kind of economic activity is generated by the investment by government? As an example, Kansas recently cut their arts funding completely, $575,000. But the arts generate $153.5 million in economic activity in the state, and $15 million in revenue for the state through tax receipts. Not only that, but there are ancillary benefits; art as part of an education curriculum produces higher test scores. A rich learning environment has many benefits over the basics.

But those are debates that never seem to be had.

I should add a caveat, I first learned of the situation in Kansas from a piece on tax payer funded CBC radio.

So teach them art in school so as to give them the tools to produce it in the private sector.

 

[Colpy]

I used to do interpretive dance.

Seriously.

I had a piece inspired by Charlie Chaplin's Modern Times. It was called "The Industrial Revolution"

Seriously.

It used to leave my kids rolling in the aisles.

Really.

I'll be lining up for my 100 grand a year..........

 

[Tonington]

So teach them art in school so as to give them the tools to produce it in the private sector.

You think that's all that is required? Art classes in school? Exhibitions, and touring theater groups need money before they make money, and support for artists turns into economic benefit.

I went looking for the answers to my own question. An economic analysis of The Kansas Art Commission found that the art activities it was involved with annually produced $20 million worth of economic activity, which generated $2.1 million in local and state tax revenue.

When the state funding disappears, then any federal funds and local funds which were tied to the state funds disappear. That's an economic loss.
www.ipsr.ku.edu/resrep/pdf/m257a.pdf

 

[Colpy]

You think that's all that is required? Art classes in school? Exhibitions, and touring theater groups need money before they make money, and support for artists turns into economic benefit.

I went looking for the answers to my own question. An economic analysis of The Kansas Art Commission found that the art activities it was involved with annually produced $20 million worth of economic activity, which generated $2.1 million in local and state tax revenue.

When the state funding disappears, then any federal funds and local funds which were tied to the state funds disappear. That's an economic loss.
www.ipsr.ku.edu/resrep/pdf/m257a.pdf

I have no problem with the state funding museums and hosting shows that are of benefit to the community. In fact, I love museums.......I was thrilled to be able to go see the terracotta warriors of China at the ROM last summer.......

But interpretive dance is simply idiotic.

As is much of the "art" supported by gov't.

The woman in Manitoba that took pictures of rotting rabbit carcasses.

The painting......9 feet tall, it consisted of three stripes, and cost big money.

The guy with the inflatable banana in Texas.......that complained Canada did not fund him well enough!!!!

Ridiculous.

Especially when the state is awash in debt......to hand off cash to some sweet, polite, lovely ditz to jump around and look silly in front of large groups of other idiots so stupid as to believe there is some significance in the act...........well, it is simply not on..........

 

[Tonington]

Especially when the state is awash in debt......to hand off cash to some sweet, polite, lovely ditz to jump around and look silly in front of large groups of other idiots so stupid as to believe there is some significance in the act...........well, it is simply not on..........

Yes, well the case I already linked to should give them pause. Being awash in debt doesn't mean you cut everything in sight, and certainly not because someone happens to think it's idiotic.

If the money going out is less than the money coming in, then why cut it? Yes, let's say no to revenue, because we're in debt... THAT would be idiotic.

I guess it's better to not gather evidence and continue to rant about something. Ignorance works as a defense for politicians 99 times out of 98.

I mean heck, let's get rid of government grants and guaranteed loans to businesses that aren't involved in art which produce economic activity too. We have debt! :lol:

 

[petros]

I have no problem with the state funding museums and hosting shows that are
of benefit to the community. In fact, I love museums.......I was thrilled to be
able to go see the terracotta warriors of China at the ROM last summer.......

I've seen that exhibit too. It was truly amazing but never came close to the Khan one.

 

[Colpy]

Yes, well the case I already linked to should give them pause. Being awash in debt doesn't mean you cut everything in sight, and certainly not because someone happens to think it's idiotic.

If the money going out is less than the money coming in, then why cut it? Yes, let's say no to revenue, because we're in debt... THAT would be idiotic.

I guess it's better to not gather evidence and continue to rant about something. Ignorance works as a defense for politicians 99 times out of 98.

I mean heck, let's get rid of government grants and guaranteed loans to businesses that aren't involved in art which produce economic activity too. We have debt! :lol:

Now, I am FAR from an economist..........

But the idea that throwing money at artists with a very limited following generates revenue for government strikes me as exactly the same kind of VooDoo as "trickle down" economics, in which you make the rich richer and that somehow is to everyones' economic benefit....

In other words, I simply don't believe it.

As for Corporate Welfare Bums, yep, let's cut them off too.

 

[weaselwords]

Krista should be careful lobbing verbal grenades. How many free air flights did she did she take on the coattails of her ex (Lee Richardson MP Con). Maybe an interview with LR would appropo she could ask why his company received a $ 185,000 grant while he's an MP.
Yeah...yeah we all know the blind trust, arms length bit.

 

[Colpy]

Krista should be careful lobbing verbal grenades. How many free air flights did she did she take on the coattails of her ex (Lee Richardson MP Con). Maybe an interview with LR would appropo she could ask why his company received a $ 185,000 grant while he's an MP.
Yeah...yeah we all know the blind trust, arms length bit.

Oh absolutely! And didn't someone say she was a CBC employee??? Talk about stealing from the people........and how much federal cash has Quebecor gotten???

But that is the problem, isn't it?

The federal treasury is like a water bucket blasted with a load of birdshot......leaking cash everywhere.

 

[taxslave]

Oh absolutely! And didn't someone say she was a CBC employee??? Talk about stealing from the people........and how much federal cash has Quebecor gotten???

But that is the problem, isn't it?

The federal treasury is like a water bucket blasted with a load of birdshot......leaking cash everywhere.

Buying votes is an alternative to producing good policy.

 

[Tonington]

Now, I am FAR from an economist..........

But the idea that throwing money at artists with a very limited following generates revenue for government strikes me as exactly the same kind of VooDoo as "trickle down" economics, in which you make the rich richer and that somehow is to everyones' economic benefit....

In other words, I simply don't believe it.

It is more akin to stimulus sending than it is to trickle down. The company I work for gets credits from Ottawa for our R&D, every month I tally up the hours I've worked on various projects. PEI has also created a business environment which is very friendly to biotech, which has been hugely successful. The exports of our class of products has gone up 77% since PEI implemented their program.

Reality doesn't change because you don't believe it. I linked to a clear example. But like I said, people have to actually look at the numbers...the down side being that those who would call it voodoo would then have to accept the findings. If you can call evidence a downside...

 

[taxslave]

It is more akin to stimulus sending than it is to trickle down. The company I work for gets credits from Ottawa for our R&D, every month I tally up the hours I've worked on various projects. PEI has also created a business environment which is very friendly to biotech, which has been hugely successful. The exports of our class of products has gone up 77% since PEI implemented their program.

Reality doesn't change because you don't believe it. I linked to a clear example. But like I said, people have to actually look at the numbers...the down side being that those who would call it voodoo would then have to accept the findings. If you can call evidence a downside...

R&D should recieve some kind of government help whether it is tax credits or outright cash when they can prove there is a benefit or at least a potential one much like mining exploration gets credits. That is not the same as much of the money that is spent on "arts' where often money goes to individuals and groups that write the best proposals rather than what will provide the best economic benefit. There was an example of bad arts funding years ago in BC where a guy got a government grant to buy a sail boat and expense money to cruise the coast to write a book about his travels. I can't recall if he ever published the book or even if there was a requirement that he do so only that it made the news for a while on government waste.

 

[Tonington]

R&D should recieve some kind of government help whether it is tax credits or outright cash when they can prove there is a benefit or at least a potential one much like mining exploration gets credits. That is not the same as much of the money that is spent on "arts' where often money goes to individuals and groups that write the best proposals rather than what will provide the best economic benefit.

Much of the money? One example is a hard sell for "much of the money". I don't doubt that some proposals probably shouldn't be funded, I'm only saying that I think the numbers need to be looked at. In the absence of a full accounting of funds and tax receipts, the common sense conclusion that this costs tax payers money is not necessarily true. One of the many reasons I have a pet peeve with what people call common sense...