Are you looking for proof that God exists?

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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If one reads the Bible in context, it doesn't allow for wildly various interpretations. I know i will undoubtedly get plastered by that statement, but it is true. When you read Treasure Island or Jeckyl & Hyde are there various interpretations for plot, setting, character, foreshadowing, conflict, resolution, etc, etc. No, you read the book and everyone agrees what the book was about. If not, you would get an F on the essay you had to write.

I'm not going to "plaster you" for your statement, because for you it is the truth. However, in my view, by stating that "if one reads the Bible" you are, in effect, speaking for everyone. I think it would be a more accurate statement, and thus more truthful, for you to state "if I read the Bible in context, it doesn't allow for wildly various interpretations." Now you might not be able to understand or see how anyone can read the same thing and come to a different conclusion, but that is just the way it is.

This is of course without even touching on the notion that the 'context' of the Bible first has to be determined (and yes I also think that is for each individual to determine) whether it is literal or symbolic, or some variation therein.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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I'm not going to "plaster you" for your statement, because for you it is the truth. However, in my view, by stating that "if one reads the Bible" you are, in effect, speaking for everyone. I think it would be a more accurate statement, and thus more truthful, for you to state "if I read the Bible in context, it doesn't allow for wildly various interpretations." Now you might not be able to understand or see how anyone can read the same thing and come to a different conclusion, but that is just the way it is.

This is of course without even touching on the notion that the 'context' of the Bible first has to be determined (and yes I also think that is for each individual to determine) whether it is literal or symbolic, or some variation therein.
I see you are a perspicpacious penguin.

But, keep in mind.

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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ABRAHAM



UR reveals a grand list of shining names. It was in itself the greatest and most likely the original word for fire. The Egyptians, wishing to name it the fire, added the divine article, the, which in their language was the hieroglyph for the letter P. This addition made it p-ur, pur, the Greek word for fire to this day. From this comes pure, purge, purgatory, as also pyre, pyrotechnic and empyrean, the Greek U changing to Y in English, as in hundreds of words. Ur (a variant of aur, or) was the name of that state of the primordial spiritual "fire" from which the first divine ray, Ab-ra-ham, proceeded as first father of spiritual Israel (not the historical Hebrews). In the same category it was the name of the universal Egyptian symbol of creative fire, the uraeus, "a serpent of fire," which was sevenfold as typifying the seven archangels that created the universe. It is therefore another representation of the dragon or beast with seven heads. Is it strange that our modern discovery of the creative fire of the universe in the atom has brought into prominence as the most fiery of the elements those two whose names incorporate both the title of the Sun-god and the Uraeus, RAdium and URanium? The German language has some hundreds of words prefixing UR, as Ursprung, Urquelle, Ursache, all meaning original source-spring of being.


All life came out of UR, the primordial fount of cosmic fire. A verse in the Chaldean Oracles says that "all things are the product of one primordial fire, every way resplendent." How resplendent it is our modern nuclear physics is now revealing! The Hebrew word for father being ab, Ab-ra-m is "Father Ra," as clearly as Hebrew can say it. Ram would be this creative fire immersed in water, matter.


The list so far traced becomes more than doubled through the prefixing onto these root-forms the Hebrew article, the, which is just the letter H. The addition of the H has the force of divinizing the word, as has been seen. So from HAL there is hallow, hale, hallel (Hebrew to praise), halleluiah, hail and more. From HEL can be traced heal, health, heil (German hail), hell (German, bright, clear), and most significantly, the Greek helios, the sun! The spiral, or helix, was a figure tracing the spiraling course of the sun, or its planets around it. The feminine names Helen, Helena (with the H intensified into S becoming the name of the moon, Selene), are assumed to derive from it also. The Greeks adopted unto themselves the divine name Hellenes, signifying "bright and shining ones," dubbing the rest of humanity "barbarians." (They did this
18​
in the same fashion and with the same motive as the Jews adopted for themselves the divine name Israelites, dubbing the rest of mankind "Gentiles.")
THE
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
3
36
London, Ontario
I see you are a perspicpacious penguin.

It's all that Antarctic living. The cold keeps the mind sharp.

But, keep in mind.

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Well the thoughts and attitudes of my heart involve kindness and acceptance of others, trying to the best of my ability to give others the courtesy and respect that I'd want for myself. To not partake in anything that would cause someone harm. I can only imagine that I would be judged in a favourable light.

I think the world is richer place for having differing views and perspectives.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
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Good God I have better things to do than sit around wondering if God exists or not.
Its the same with prayer, If God is there he knows what I would need so why would
I have to pray? So I can beg God? That ain't gonna happen
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
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It's all that Antarctic living. The cold keeps the mind sharp.

Well the thoughts and attitudes of my heart involve kindness and acceptance of others, trying to the best of my ability to give others the courtesy and respect that I'd want for myself. To not partake in anything that would cause someone harm. I can only imagine that I would be judged in a favourable light.

I think the world is richer place for having differing views and perspectives.
For me, God expects that we should be kind to our neighbor. Why would he judge us on that? Are we going to go before him and say, "Hey I treated my neighbor well." His response might be, "Good for you, you imbecile, is that not the least you should be doing." Clearly, I have taken liberties with the dialogue.

You got to ask yourself, Penguin, Who is going to be the one doing the judging? What are they judging?
Is there a God? Yes or No
Is there a heaven and/or hell? Yes or No
If there is a God, Who is he, What does he want, if anything?
How do I find out about Him?

Here is where religions go every which way. Being that this a forum to discuss issues related to Christianity, I posted the thread & highlighted the following: “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” What does that mean?
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Good God I have better things to do than sit around wondering if God exists or not.
Its the same with prayer, If God is there he knows what I would need so why would
I have to pray? So I can beg God? That ain't gonna happen
for me prayer isn't about asking for anything most of the time, rather it's about connecting at a different level by becoming quiet, most times we have too much noise in our lives, prayer alters that
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
0
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Good God I have better things to do than sit around wondering if God exists or not.
Its the same with prayer, If God is there he knows what I would need so why would
I have to pray? So I can beg God? That ain't gonna happen
Grumpy, You amuse me to no end. Lot's of wisdom in your post.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
3
36
London, Ontario
For me, God expects that we should be kind to our neighbor.

For you. Good.

Why would he judge us on that? Are we going to go before him and say, "Hey I treated my neighbor well." His response might be, "Good for you, you imbecile, is that not the least you should be doing." Clearly, I have taken liberties with the dialogue.
Actually I don't think we will be judged, at least not by God. The only ones I've seen doing any judging of people, is other people.

Virtue is it's own reward.

You got to ask yourself, Penguin, Who is going to be the one doing the judging? What are they judging?
Is there a God? Yes or No
Is there a heaven and/or hell? Yes or No
If there is a God, Who is he, What does he want, if anything?
How do I find out about Him?
But I don't have to ask myself that, not at all. I can ask whatever questions I want, pursue whatever avenues of thought I think are relevant. If I was created then I was created as I am. It may be relevant for someone else to ask those questions, but it's not necessarily for me. If that is your journey, that's fine, but it's not mine.

Here is where religions go every which way. Being that this a forum to discuss issues related to Christianity, I posted the thread & highlighted the following: “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’” What does that mean?
Actually it's not a forum to discuss issues related to Christianity, the forum and the membership are made up of many threads on a very wide variety of topics. There are subforums within the forum to discuss some specific topics, one of which is Christianity. This subforum is on Spirituality and Philosophy. However, since the membership is, once again, made up of a wide variety of members you won't necessarily find only Christians posting there. Essentially what I'm saying is regardless of where you post you will encounter a variety and diversity of views, and this is not a bad thing.

This thread was posted and a question was asked. I answered the question and stated my reasons why. The answer I gave is not wrong, it is simply my answer.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
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For you. Good.

Actually I don't think we will be judged, at least not by God. The only ones I've seen doing any judging of people, is other people.

Virtue is it's own reward.

But I don't have to ask myself that, not at all. I can ask whatever questions I want, pursue whatever avenues of thought I think are relevant. If I was created then I was created as I am. It may be relevant for someone else to ask those questions, but it's not necessarily for me. If that is your journey, that's fine, but it's not mine.

Actually it's not a forum to discuss issues related to Christianity, the forum and the membership are made up of many threads on a very wide variety of topics. There are subforums within the forum to discuss some specific topics, one of which is Christianity. This subforum is on Spirituality and Philosophy. However, since the membership is, once again, made up of a wide variety of members you won't necessarily find only Christians posting there. Essentially what I'm saying is regardless of where you post you will encounter a variety and diversity of views, and this is not a bad thing.

This thread was posted and a question was asked. I answered the question and stated my reasons why. The answer I gave is not wrong, it is simply my answer.
Hey, what did you do with the penguin?
I did not mean to give you the impression that I thought you gave a "wrong" answer. Indeed, I expect varied opinion and views. I am just really wondering about the status of that penguin.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Hey, what did you do with the penguin?
I did not mean to give you the impression that I thought you gave a "wrong" answer. Indeed, I expect varied opinion and views. I am just really wondering about the status of that penguin.
the penguin blossomed into a rose...
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
3
36
London, Ontario
Hey, what did you do with the penguin?

Lol, I like to change my "outfit" often.

I did not mean to give you the impression that I thought you gave a "wrong" answer. Indeed, I expect varied opinion and views.
I misunderstood 'you have to ask yourself' then. See I don't venture into philosophical and/or religious threads often, not that I don't have any interest in the topic but a lot of times I find people's views fairly rigid and it can be difficult to have a real dialogue that way. (Politics can be the same, go figure.) So how about this, help me to understand how you got to where you are. What interests me about many topics, but especially on issues of belief and faith, is hearing in people's own words what led them down the paths that they've gone down. Doesn't mean I'll necessarily agree but I do think if we understand each other better (if people do) then we understand ourselves better too.


I am just really wondering about the status of that penguin.
The penguin is fine, I promise. She has many penguin friends to play with in my avatar closet.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Cliffy, I understand the universal opinion. It is not something I agree with, but as you say, who gives a rip what I think? In contrast to your opinion, I think the Bible is the WORD of God - For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.


Then why is there so many inconsistencies? Why does the OT allow so many things that we KNOW are wrong? Slavery, beating, dietary laws that no one follows, etc. Even Christ took to task Mosaic law by stating that the allowance of divorce was NOT God's law but a law made by man.

So, the Bible is NOT the word of God, at the least it is a twisted version of God's words, and at the most it is man's words only.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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Then why is there so many inconsistencies? Why does the OT allow so many things that we KNOW are wrong? Slavery, beating, dietary laws that no one follows, etc. Even Christ took to task Mosaic law by stating that the allowance of divorce was NOT God's law but a law made by man.

So, the Bible is NOT the word of God, at the least it is a twisted version of God's words, and at the most it is man's words only.
gerry: I think Motar would be better able to answer this question. I'll give it a try though. During the time the Old Testament was written, there was slavery, beatings, murder. It is not that the Old Testament "allowed" these things to happen. They happened through the course of history - even today there are such things. All the dietary laws, restrictions, holy days, animal sacrifices etc. were in place to teach Israel that God is Holy and man is sinful. All are guilty before His Law and in order to atone for sins, these laws were in place. Animal sacrifices were a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice.

The Old Testament is the word of God. You are noticing the contrast of law and gospel. That's the way it is supposed to work. We look at all those laws in the Old testament and think that is a weighty burden. Then Jesus comes and says, you are not saved by obeying the law and instead he saves us through his atoning sacrifice. You can go all the way back to genesis and read 3:15
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.

This is also a foreshadowing of Christ's atoning sacrifice. The woman's (Eve) offspring (generational) is Jesus. He, Jesus will crush (destroy) satan. Satan will strike Jesus' heel. (crucifixion) The entire Old testament points to Christ.

I know you don't like Paul, but if you can brace yourself to get through reading all of Romans, you will see that his writings are in agreement with both the Old & New testaments & most certainly in agreement with Jesus' teachings.
 

taxslave

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Yours is a mean spirited and vengeful god. About polar opposite of what your bible teaches people should be. Many other religions have far more understanding gods.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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gerry: I think Motar would be better able to answer this question. I'll give it a try though. During the time the Old Testament was written, there was slavery, beatings, murder. It is not that the Old Testament "allowed" these things to happen. They happened through the course of history - even today there are such things. All the dietary laws, restrictions, holy days, animal sacrifices etc. were in place to teach Israel that God is Holy and man is sinful. All are guilty before His Law and in order to atone for sins, these laws were in place. Animal sacrifices were a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice.

The Old Testament is the word of God. You are noticing the contrast of law and gospel. That's the way it is supposed to work. We look at all those laws in the Old testament and think that is a weighty burden. Then Jesus comes and says, you are not saved by obeying the law and instead he saves us through his atoning sacrifice. You can go all the way back to genesis and read 3:15
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.

This is also a foreshadowing of Christ's atoning sacrifice. The woman's (Eve) offspring (generational) is Jesus. He, Jesus will crush (destroy) satan. Satan will strike Jesus' heel. (crucifixion) The entire Old testament points to Christ.

I know you don't like Paul, but if you can brace yourself to get through reading all of Romans, you will see that his writings are in agreement with both the Old & New testaments & most certainly in agreement with Jesus' teachings.


You're ignoring. Leviticus is written as GOD'S Law.

Christ stated to the pharisees that asked about Moses's divorce law that it was NOT God's law. It was Moses's law. Man's law. Jesus pointed to the 10 commandments as God's Law.

The reason that GLBT's are looked down on so much is because of Leviticus and the idiot Paul. GLBT's have been persecuted by "Christians" for centuries because of Leviticus and Paul. There was no "love" as Christ preached. There was only condemnation and hatred. This is just one example of what the Bible has been responsible for because it is claimed to be the word of God.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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Yours is a mean spirited and vengeful god. About polar opposite of what your bible teaches people should be. Many other religions have far more understanding gods.
Taxslave: God is Holy. He does not tolerate sin. I am not speaking for other religions. Biblical Christianity isn't for the faint of heart. I attribute this current view of God to the deceptions of the twentieth century. People took all the love & grace they found in the Bible, but neglected to pay attention to God's judgement on mankind. "For God so loved the world, he gave his only Son to die for us" I think people take this verse and hear, "For God so loved the world because he knows we sometimes make mistakes, but he knows we aren't so bad". That is the theology of this day and age. We make mistakes, God loves us, we are going to heaven. The problem with that is that "theology" leaves someone haning on a cross. It throws Jesus right under the bus and denies scripture in its entirety.

God is gracious, merciful and compassionate, but he is also Holy and will not deny Christ.

You're ignoring. Leviticus is written as GOD'S Law.

Christ stated to the pharisees that asked about Moses's divorce law that it was NOT God's law. It was Moses's law. Man's law. Jesus pointed to the 10 commandments as God's Law.

The reason that GLBT's are looked down on so much is because of Leviticus and the idiot Paul. GLBT's have been persecuted by "Christians" for centuries because of Leviticus and Paul. There was no "love" as Christ preached. There was only condemnation and hatred. This is just one example of what the Bible has been responsible for because it is claimed to be the word of God.
Gerry: Please forget Leviticus. It would do you well to rip it right out of your Bible. :)
GLBT's are looked down on because people are sinful, smug, self righteous donkeys.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Gerry: Please forget Leviticus. It would do you well to rip it right out of your Bible. :)
GLBT's are looked down on because people are sinful, smug, self righteous donkeys.


So, you are telling me to ignore a portion of God's word. A section of the Bible where God laid down HIS laws. Is that right?
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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So, you are telling me to ignore a portion of God's word. A section of the Bible where God laid down HIS laws. Is that right?
For you gerry, yes. You are under too much law. You are obsessed with the law and you are not seeing God's mercy and grace in Jesus. The law condemns. Do you believe that Jesus died for your sins? If yes, then the following applies to you. And it is written by Paul.

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Gerry, of all the books in scripture I don't know why you want to rummage around in the book of Leviticus. :)
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
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Are you looking for proof that God exists?
Nope. Gave it up for Lent. lol
Belief doesn't come through the five senses. In Jesus' day, he performed many miracles before the eyes of many people. Even so, not every person that witnessed these miracles believed what Jesus taught. "Proof" doesn't give birth to faith. Evidence doesn't produce belief. This is in regards to spiritual matters. I am not speaking of chemistry, physics and sciences.
Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy. As SLM mentioned, it matters not who carried the message, it's the message that matters.
A miracle is simply a phenomenon that cannot yet be explained to the observer. It doesn't mean the event is mystical or magical.