Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "YES"

[Ariadne]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Perhaps the notion that the child - male or female- sacrifices little when dropping out to enter the workplace resides in the belief that schooling is merely training in skills necessary to slip seamlessly into the ambient culture. That notion ignores a more nurturing role of education.

This role empowers the individual to engage in a lifetime of active learning, to question his world critically, and to assume responsibility to effect change in himself and in his society when appropriate.

We do not want smiling idiots who accept unflinching what they are told on the job, by government, or by institutions. Without their activism, democracy is but an empty word.

So true. Many times I've had the debate about intelligent people with, and without, formal post-secondary training. Those without the education claim that they are as capable as those with the education. This is true ... ability is the same. The difference is in skills acquired through post-secondary education for problem solving, interpreting information, expressing information, formulating theories and opinions, gathering relevant information, verifying information, developing logical cohesive viewpoints or arguments, and so on ... that is where those without education have a significantly different approach and result than those with formal education.

 

[petros]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

It has nothing to do with school. Character and habits are formed long before walking through a school door.

 

[Ariadne]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

It has nothing to do with school. Character and habits are formed long before walking through a school door.

Character is primarily formed in the first 6 years of life, when most children are left with strangers earning $9 an hour to keep children caged while parents are at work. Habits can be re-established at any age.

 

[petros]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Character is primarily formed in the first 6 years of life, when most children are left with strangers earning $9 an hour to keep children caged while parents are at work. Habits can be re-established at any age.

Parents get paid $9 an hour? Less than minimum wage. Where is my cheque?

You can never break a habit, you only resist it through will which is character.

 

[Praxius]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

So true. Many times I've had the debate about intelligent people with, and without, formal post-secondary training. Those without the education claim that they are as capable as those with the education. This is true ... ability is the same. The difference is in skills acquired through post-secondary education for problem solving, interpreting information, expressing information, formulating theories and opinions, gathering relevant information, verifying information, developing logical cohesive viewpoints or arguments, and so on ... that is where those without education have a significantly different approach and result than those with formal education.

And yet every single job I have worked for or applied to in my field of training has told me and taught me that everything they teach you in college is so basic and rudimentary that they don't actually apply to real hands on experience when you get into the work field..... and after a few years of being in the work force and learning as I go, I've learned that they were right...... besides learning how to use the very..... very basic elements of the programs and tools I use, when you get into the work force for what I do, you learn that what you were taught is completely useless in real life and that while something you designed or created may look good on screen, it's impossible to actually create/manufacture.... simply because you were taught how to make it look good, not how to make it actually work.

In fact, I already knew how to make things look good before I went to college.... all they did was give us an assignment related to what we were taught, gave us the parameters and limits for that assignment and then left to our own abilities to make it work...... something I've been doing since I was 4 years old when I first picked up a pencil to draw my first rocket ship with spoke-wheels and fins.

When I presented my work, not to toot my own horn, everybody found it funny if it was supposed to be, or stylish if it was supposed to be and zero suggestions from the class since most in my class couldn't do half the crap I was doing....... College and School didn't develop my imagination and my interest in doing what I am doing, my friends and my parents did, via encouragement...... if you're interested in something in life and want to learn more about it..... then do it, because chances are, with a little practice and time to work on it, you will do great with it..... or at least learn if you like it or not.

Nobody needs 12-13 years of school to learn that..... and nobody needs to be continually bombarded with various assignments, tests and exams from 5 or 6 different educational classes per day for 5 days a week...... and then bombarded with 4 hours of homework after school from these various classes to learn this.

What are they really learning from this?

That you can't really absorb the information or take interest in any of it if you have all your time taken up trying to continually meet school deadlines for crap that should have been taught during class time.

Life is deadlines?

Sure in some cases, but in most cases you work 8 hours of the day and then that's it..... once the work day is over, you get to go home, relax, eat, spend time with friends and family, pay bills, focus on your own personal interests, etc...... not have to go home and spend another 4+ hours of unpaid time to do more work from the job you just left.

I call BS on that crap and would never work in a job that made me do that...... I'm not on this planet just to work for someone else all hours of the day, every day of my life.... I'm here to experience the world around me and everything within it..... and it was the sole reason why when I was in school that I either never did my homework or I spent 10 minutes filling out crap to make it look like I worked on it and then went off to do something else.

Back then I knew this wasn't how the work force was like...... so why toss kids into this and sap their childhood away with school, followed with hours of homework they can't usually finish before bedtime, thus having no life?

No wonder why people are dropping school...... if my schooling was like what it is today, I would have dropped out too.

And how about this:

Mental illness rises on campus: studies
CBC News - Health - Mental illness rises on campus: studies

Poll finds many U.S. college students stressed, depressed
Poll finds many U.S. college students stressed, depressed : Macleans OnCampus

The report I saw on TV a couple of weeks ago had a number of students interviewed, claiming such things as continually trying to attend school meetings, classes, organizations, sports, student loans, socializing, and everything else that comes with college, with the higher demands of higher grades and the pressure to be the best have led many to needing help dealing with depression, anti-social behavior, suicidal thoughts and many other troubling concerns.

All for a piece of paper they're soon going to learn, doesn't mean much without any decent work experience...... and then the student loans will come hounding for their payments.

----------------------
And in relation to my comments about Homework:

Homework hell
Homework hell | Life | Toronto Sun

Homework hell will soon be over - at least for a few months.

“I can’t wait! My 12-year-old daughter has been overloaded with mindless busy work that punishes the entire family,” says frustrated mom of two Joan Johnson. “School should not be running our home life. The tension and conflict is unbearable at times.”

Homework overload sucks the joy out of childhood, say parents and one homework critic. Kids should be kids - exploring, imagining, creating, vegging, reading - after school hours. Instead they’re under pressure, and so too parents.

“Grade 7 homework is insane,” says another fed-up mom Laurie Enns. “Most weekends we run our social life around my daughter’s homework schedule and actually we have to cancel weekend functions, and even family evenings out too so she can get it all done!”

More and more parents are asking for less homework – and less time being the big bad homework cop.

Homework gets a failing grade with Dr. Alfie Kohn. “It’s all pain and no gain.” Yet homework wars rage on many home fronts, leaving families frazzled, frustrated and exhausted.

Kids are working a “second shift” that oppresses families, overburdens kids and “is the single greatest extinguisher of children’s curiosity and their interest in learning,” says Kohn, educator and author of The Homework Myth (Da Capo Press).

Homework is a waste of time with dire consequences for children - “it’s damaging to learning and development,” says the Boston-based education watchdog, who adds that studies report no positive effects on academic achievement from homework before high school, yet the time spent on homework continues to increase – it’s actually doubled for six to eight year olds.........

All I can say is when I have kids of my own, I'll be god damned if I'll help force them to do homework beyond 15 minutes a day, if at all.

They will learn what they need to learn in school and after school, they will be encouraged to explore things in their life they personally find interesting, to do things they want to do..... to expand their abilities in the things they may dream about doing someday.... not answering stupid friggin questions like when such and such a bus leaves this terminal at such and such a speed compared to another bus.

Who gives a damn? That's what bus schedules are for ffs!

 

[Ariadne]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Parents get paid $9 an hour? Less than minimum wage. Where is my cheque?

You can never break a habit, you only resist it through will which is character.

That pretty clearly isn't what I said ... strangers ... is what I said ... referring to daycare workers.

And yet every single job I have worked for or applied to in my field of training has told me and taught me that everything they teach you in college is so basic and rudimentary that they don't actually apply to real hands on experience when you get into the work field..... and after a few years of being in the work force and learning as I go, I've learned that they were right...... besides learning how to use the very..... very basic elements of the programs and tools I use, when you get into the work force for what I do, you learn that what you were taught is completely useless in real life and that while something you designed or created may look good on screen, it's impossible to actually create/manufacture.... simply because you were taught how to make it look good, not how to make it actually work.

Long sentence! Some professions require training. For example, an architectural technologist enters the workforce with knowledge of the building code. They are expected to know this before work, not to acquire the skills at work ... no one has time to teach and work at the same time. That's one example, but there are numerous others. There are certainly positions where learning on the job is what is expected ... guess it depends on the job.

All I can say is when I have kids of my own, I'll be god damned if I'll help force them to do homework beyond 15 minutes a day, if at all.

They will learn what they need to learn in school and after school, they will be encouraged to explore things in their life they personally find interesting, to do things they want to do..... to expand their abilities in the things they may dream about doing someday.... not answering stupid friggin questions like when such and such a bus leaves this terminal at such and such a speed compared to another bus.

Who gives a damn? That's what bus schedules are for ffs!

No one needs to know what speed buses are traveling if they leave two different terminals and cross paths at a certain point, but the principals of mathematics learned in these high school assignments are foundational for the complex analyses applied in engineering.

 

[ironsides]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

Big question is:

Did you graduate from a accredited college, there are lots of them, some good (Harvard), some not so good (A.I.U. American InterContinental University). Major university graduates usually find jobs.

 

[TenPenny]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

They will learn what they need to learn in school and after school, they will be encouraged to explore things in their life they personally find interesting, to do things they want to do..... to expand their abilities in the things they may dream about doing someday.... not answering stupid friggin questions like when such and such a bus leaves this terminal at such and such a speed compared to another bus.

Who gives a damn? That's what bus schedules are for ffs!

If you cannot grasp the concept behind this question, there's not much hope for you. I gather that you don't believe kids should be taught basic mathematical concepts.

 

[Praxius]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

If you cannot grasp the concept behind this question, there's not much hope for you. I gather that you don't believe kids should be taught basic mathematical concepts.

And clearly you can't grasp what was already said in this thread..... I already said besides basic mathematical concepts, the math taught in school is useless for 95% of the general work out there for most people.

Anything beyond adding, subtracting, multiplication, division, measurements, fractions, etc., is useless and what is useful for the specific job you wish to work in can either be learned on your own, or through the college/university course you are taking which teaches you this stuff anyways..... which was done in my community college course...... which ironically, the math they were teaching us had absolutely nothing to do with the course I was taking, which was mechanical drafting...... all the math I needed to know for drafting, I already knew and was proven so due to my high marks in drafting and better CAD layouts I was creating over most others in the course...... but my point was that that useless math being taught in school isn't confined to just school, but is also taught in post secondary educational institutes..... when needed..... and in my case, when not needed.

 

[Ariadne]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

And clearly you can't grasp what was already said in this thread..... I already said besides basic mathematical concepts, the math taught in school is useless for 95% of the general work out there for most people.

Anything beyond adding, subtracting, multiplication, division, measurements, fractions, etc., is useless and what is useful for the specific job you wish to work in can either be learned on your own, or through the college/university course you are taking which teaches you this stuff anyways..... which was done in my community college course...... which ironically, the math they were teaching us had absolutely nothing to do with the course I was taking, which was mechanical drafting...... all the math I needed to know for drafting, I already knew and was proven so due to my high marks in drafting and better CAD layouts I was creating over most others in the course...... but my point was that that useless math being taught in school isn't confined to just school, but is also taught in post secondary educational institutes..... when needed..... and in my case, when not needed.

You would be amazed at how many people arrive at a Polytechnic for a drafting class that do not know the difference between radius and diameter, that do not understand the x and y axis (z is a mystery), and lack the terminology used in basic mathematics. The radial circle, which should be understood by grade 10, is a backwards forwards dyslexic upside down confusion (eg: -90 and 270). When it comes to area, perimeter, scaling, or calculating and constructing screw threads, students are hopeless. Introduce 3D drafting, and the mind-bogglement of spatial relations takes on new meaning. Tolerances, like it or not, require an understanding of math and a series of calcuations based on basic table interpretations. Basic math classes are mandatory for mechanical drafting to spare the drafting instructor the pains of wasting time explaining the definitions required to apply basic math concepts. One area that confuses nearly all is page layout ... paper size, template size, scaled viewports ... always a mess ... and then convert between imperial and metric. Even the brightest need to learn those skills.

 

[JLM]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

You would be amazed at how many people arrive at a Polytechnic for a drafting class that do not know the difference between radius and diameter, that do not understand the x and y axis (z is a mystery), and lack the terminology used in basic mathematics. QUOTE]

Something obviously went wrong on day one. Whatever trade or profession or other endeavour, someone is embarking on they first have to be completely cognizant of the terminology and then when they have that down pat, they have to be made fully cognizant of the use for and the operation of the tools. Until that happens I wouldn't let them touch a set square. :lol:

 

[critter171]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

there alot more reason why people drop out than what its saying that does not make men more stupid or ladies more or less stupid.

it just show that most men don't like school

 

[Spade]

Re: Are Men Really That Much More Stupid Than Women? High-School Dropout Rates Say "Y

YouTube - The Silent Epidemic: Perspectives of High School Dropouts