Alberta's Exploding Debt

B00Mer

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Sep 6, 2008
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captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Didn't take you long to find a second way about it.


It is what it is... Fact is, the prov is going about this in a smart and responsible way.

Debt becomes a huge problem when you run the risk of struggling to pay, this isn't the case in AB.

... And yes, the response to the next predictable question of; 'why not alter the rules and go back to deficit budgets'?.. Well, that's debt, right, you'd be right back to square one. So the real question is, does it make sense to act on the need for capital spending on infrastructure today and take advantage of the very low rates?

This makes sense and further, you'd be stupid not to borrow money for far less than what you can invest your discretionary/disposable income today.
 

Walter

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Jan 28, 2007
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ON's debt will be over $300,000,000,000.00 this fiscal year. AB's debt is 3% of ON's debt.
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
A debt in Alberta looks even more egregious when you consider it's supposed to be the source of this country's economic growth.
If the rest of the country was not drowning in debt the spending being done in Alberta would be a lot higher in some areas. In a depression (like North America is in now) if you have money you can buy a lot of things rather than just a few things. Say Alberta went on a big spending spree where they even (permanently) fixed all the pot-holes and the resit of the civilian infrastructure. At some point the oil in the ground is going to be sold to pay for that, other Provinces do not have a natural resource at the moment.
The east has the Great Lakes but how much fish farming is done there where harvest is done and the breed of the catch means the load is paid for by the company running that part of the co-op fish farm that sees 20 species released into the 'wild', or something along that line. (that's assuming fish can even survive in those waters today) That is one potential for the east that would allow a big debt be taken on because in the end it will pay for itself if. If the costs associated with feeding them and enriching the water with 02 can be brought down the profits go up. Being fish they can probably be trained to swim right into the processing factories along the shores if not caught in the open water.
If that isn't an option for the east to move into the next phase then looking north and south means moving goods and to do that you need a vibrant economy and if any spending means more debt (that can't be paid off) then the roads to take the fish harvest south and west and east would not be built even though the cost of food would tumble because there was now access to an over abundant supply as long as you liked fresh water fish. (going north could solve the salt water products and both have a consumer that will be around for a long time so 20 years building the business will mean it is still running 100 years down the road and should the international market stop the locals still survive the hardships that automatically comes with a reduction in free money, at least they are eating.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Mar 18, 2013
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It is what it is... Fact is, the prov is going about this in a smart and responsible way.

Debt becomes a huge problem when you run the risk of struggling to pay, this isn't the case in AB.

... And yes, the response to the next predictable question of; 'why not alter the rules and go back to deficit budgets'?.. Well, that's debt, right, you'd be right back to square one. So the real question is, does it make sense to act on the need for capital spending on infrastructure today and take advantage of the very low rates?

This makes sense and further, you'd be stupid not to borrow money for far less than what you can invest your discretionary/disposable income today.
Got a plan to pay for it?
 

MHz

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Mar 16, 2007
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Alberta economy is wild!!! Best in North America.
That isn't saying it isn't a trickle of what it once was. The boom of construction was the first one and the Gov paid the iol companies to build the roads to the most remote locations first and then the feeder roads could be build if the demand was there and at a cheap rate becuse they were all short distances. That kind of rate will never come back as servicing doesn't take a lot of people but it does involve a bit of work in many areas rather than a lot of work in a few areas.
Once the servicing is done the only task is removal and that is avoided if at all possible. If that goes from 100 people down to 10 people having jobs then the 90 that will lose theirs either has to be able to find another one even if that means moving or the money saved should support paying the people to not work and they need to find a hobby. (and have some funds to follow through on that)

....go back to deficit budgets'?..
If I have a farm and grow hay and cattle I can claim an increase in the value of the cattle based (partly) on the feed I give to them compared to if I sold it on the open market.
Investment in the infrastructure goes on the books as an increase in assets that belong to the people of Alberta (tax-payer), loans to have-nots that do not get repaid are not classified as assets. We should spend till our credit is no better than anybody else and sit back for 20 years until the pot-holes reappear.
How will the other Provinces be doing then, debt-free or looking for loans from others that will never be paid back?
 
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taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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Relative to GDP, AB comes in at $331.9 billion for 2013




No, at least not yet... Won't take long for the do-gooders to find a social program that is perfectly suited for a PST

No PST is a good indicator that the debt is not a problem. The best cure for social problems is high pay and high employment. Thr freeloaders need not apply.
 

MHz

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Good Debt: Infrastructure
Bad Debt: Social programs

Does Alberta have a Provincial sales tax yet?
We prefer to call them subsidies. The companies that 'paid' $M's to build a road to one well that was not even connected to any method that one truck every 3 weeks. Everybody made money, a bottle of aspirin was available at 3AM with one phone call, that it cost $500 wasn't even an issue. Hookers at the well-site when the super's wife comes for a visit is another story completely, lol. Completely paid for by the Provincial Govt (taxpayer lost revenue) and the cut Ottawa in at the same time.

Social programs should have an endgame that is factual down the road. The $5B spent on Syncrude to produce axle grease is a good investment as that is the main ingredient. Spending $500B more to get 3 gallons of low grade gas is stupid when you are burning off NG to get the gasoline, a lot of NG. What is burned off in flares to keep the pressure low in the lines would power a lot of engines, for free. That isn't a very good reason not to do it.
Social programs seems to include education. Rather than spend more on the current system where endless money has a population of university grads with nothing to do with those skills. Kids don't really pay attention until they are about 12 so start grade 1 at 12 years old and by 20 they have high school and 2 years advanced education or 2 years on the job training. Both paths lead to the same income if they both worked until 55 and then both retired. On the job means the cash comes faster at the start and slower at the end of that period of 'being useful'.
Below 12 send them all to the mall and lock the doors for the day. First-aid and such would make better educational classes for that age group and the staff would be the older workers that are unable to keep up with the faster paced segments of society (the ones in society needing first-aid the most). The very young and the very old will find their own balance.

The PST might even be a hidden tax. When the Social Credit got in by cancelling all private debt that load actually got transferred to the Govt books and was paid off by the taxpayer over the coming decades. Since Alberta is a consumer destination perhaps there is a different delivery charge to us than there is to places with PST. Wouldn't that make having a warehouse in AB that sells through a server in Alberta be the way to sell to Ontario and save them some money so they would order from AB rather than do it locally at a higher price. (assuming shipping doesn't suck that savings up, which it does)

Why couldn't I set up a company in Alberta where members would log onto their $3/mo membership and they could shop using the 'no PST' Alberta address for the purchase but the 'delivery' was to an address that just happened to also be in Ontario so the shipping was next to zero?

Unless it has changed I can order from Ontario but not pay PST because I am from AB.
 
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JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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No PST is a good indicator that the debt is not a problem. The best cure for social problems is high pay and high employment. Thr freeloaders need not apply.


No hope for that until we can export about 3 million "tree huggers".
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
41,030
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Red Deer AB
Thr freeloaders need not apply.
When we can find the money to pay ourselves to look after ourselves we get into a cycle that always ends badly. Staying on a ride longer that (you know) is going to crash is not a sign of 'coping better'. 'Out of control' is always easy to spot, that is the time to 'bail out'. That term alone should be a clue as to if something is in control or not.