88% agree with Harper on niqab

[Toro]

Of course he's correct.

It's not a great hardship for people who want to be Canadians to show themselves when they want to be, you know, Canadians.

 

[darkbeaver]

Well if you want to Canadian you might want to hide, because you must be stupid.

 

[nimrod]

The poll indicated that 88 per cent of Canadians strongly or somewhat support the “requirement that people show their faces during Canadian citizenship ceremonies.”

At the same time, 72 per cent of respondents said they strongly or somewhat agree with Harper’s comment about the niqabs and burkas being symbols of oppression.


Most Canadians say faces shouldn’t be covered at citizenship ceremonies: poll - National | Globalnews.ca

No wonder urban legends need not be true-like gossip they morph so much and folks swallow things whole that a few moments of logical thinking would show to be illogical and dubious.
We seem to jump to wrong conclusions based on half formed prejudices and bias-that confirm what we are against.
When this niqab nonsense started i read about our citizenship oath and ceremony.The facts are that everyone has to show their face privately but can wear a niqab during the public ceremony.Like ID's,driver's license and other identity issues common sense says we need to be sure of an individual's identity.Harper got Kenney to amend the law but the courts said the law was fine as it was.They ruled that once again the Tories were wrong and Harper said they would appeal it.This will never actually be appealed because Tories once again have wasted our time & money trying to make laws that violate our charter.Their "long game' is wedge politics vote getting .Period-The public will get the facts messed up and Harper gets a few votes from true believers and people to busy or uninterested to mine the truth.
Harper has just sold $15 billion in war weapons to Saudi Arabia in a shady deal that was slipped by the rules against bad human rights abusers.Do you really believe he is worried about a handful of immigrants with a scrap of cloth over their face in just the public ceremony?
Here is another instanceeople blogging that Mulcair is going to revive the long gun registry. ‘I banged my head on the table’: NDP won’t bring back long-gun registry, MP Angus says - National | Globalnews.ca

No wonder Charlie was banging his head-anybody with decent reading comprehension can read the story and know that what the NDP proposed was about assault type weapons with mass killing power.I am a man who hunts deer with a crossbow and own a number of hunting weapons.I have no problem with their proposed legislation and i hunt a lot.Anybody needs an assault weapon to kill wild game should not be considered competent to hunt.
The only sane comment Harper made for a long time was about the use for shotguns in the country.He's cagey and had one eye on uninformed,biased voters again-it was no off the cuff remark.
Of course he went to town shortly after and said the opposite-but hey its been working for over ten years.

 

[Sal]

Harper did not go far enough. We need to ban them and be done with this non-sense.

 

[B00Mer]

If their not happy why the £uck don't they go back to where they came from?

I wish they would..

Well if you want to Canadian you might want to hide, because you must be stupid.

...or in your case because you just butt ugly.

The hospital sent your Birth Certificate to your parents, and it was an apology letter.

 

[Zipperfish]

I like Trudeau's line: "it is a cruel joke to claim you are liberating people from oppression by dictating in lawwhat they can and cannot choose to wear."

 

[#juan]

quote:It's pretty obvious Harper has his pulse on the interests of Canadians.unquote.

Did you mean to say Harper has his finger on the pulse of Canadian interests? Who knows what you wanted to say....?

 

[Sal]

I like Trudeau's line: "it is a cruel joke to claim you are liberating people from oppression by dictating in lawwhat they can and cannot choose to wear."

sorry, that is a completely bogus argument...speak to some actual muslims ... they understand this issue...most will NOT support the black tent because it represents the raping and torture and loss of freedom for their women

Trudeau is wrong on this

 

[Zipperfish]

sorry, that is a completely bogus argument...speak to some actual muslims ... they understand this issue...most will NOT support the black tent because it represents the raping and torture and loss of freedom for their women

Trudeau is wrong on this

For "their" women. That's a telling statemnet.

We'll see I suppose.

 

[Durry]

Yep, and this is what Tarek Fatah, a devote Muslim has to say about it;

-------------
And what is the rationale behind the obsession with the niqab among the world’s Islamists?

The fact is, the niqab and, I would argue, the hijab, are today not just medieval symbols of female servitude; they also serve as flags of Islamism, dictated by the Muslim Brotherhood in the Arab world and its equivalent in South Asia, the Jamat-e-Islami.
-----------

See my earleir post.

 

[Sal]

For "their" women. That's a telling statemnet.

We'll see I suppose.

you so don't get it on this...I call my boyfriend "my guy" for god sake, not everything is about misogynism

I would suggest you read about what happens to women when the taliban arrive in their villages...female doctors can no longer practice, women can't go to a male doctor, teachers can't teach and the list just goes on from there

and guess what they all have to wear?

there is no place in our society for these chains...no place

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

you so don't get it on this...I call my boyfriend "my guy" for god sake, not everything is about misogynism

I would suggest you read about what happens to women when the taliban arrive in their villages...female doctors can no longer practice, women can't go to a male doctor, teachers can't teach and the list just goes on from there

and guess what they all have to wear?

there is no place in our society for these chains...no place

Are the Taliban in your society?

 

[B00Mer]

Are the Taliban in your society?

They are in downtown Toronto right now.. look at all that snow..

 

[Sal]

Are the Taliban in your society?

that is not the point and you know it

here's the real question for you: is there abuse in your society?

these women are living with men who want them covered, when it becomes a choice then bring it back if you want...even the hijab which I am not keen on but can accept better ONLy because I know a women who did not wear the hijab and then "found Allah" and she has chosen to wear it out of modesty and dedication to Allah...her husband couldn 't care less.

only radicals wear a burqua

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

that is not the point and you know it

here's the real question for you: is there abuse in your society?

these women are living with men who want them covered, when it becomes a choice then bring it back if you want...even the hijab which I am not keen on but can accept better ONLy because I know a women who did not wear the hijab and then "found Allah" and she has chosen to wear it out of modesty and dedication to Allah...her husband couldn 't care less.

only radicals wear a burqua

Funny part is, whenever you talk about niqab, the "ban it!" people automatically shift the discussion to the burqa.

In Algeria, many women voluntarily go for niqab in a society that doesn't require it, either legally or generally customarily.

There's also the whole aspect of if you "save" these oppressed women by government action, do you really think their men will behave any differently, or that, having had their niqab, hijab, burqa, whatever banned by law will suddenly make them leave their abusive families, get jobs, wear jeans, and sing "I Am Woman?"

 

[DaSleeper]

The perfect example of a progressive, willing to bend over for muslim customs and foreign customs in general, but think nothing of condemning Christians at every turn......at least true atheists are consistent, they condemn all religion

 

[Sal]

Funny part is, whenever you talk about niqab, the "ban it!" people automatically shift the discussion to the burqa.

In Algeria, many women voluntarily go for niqab in a society that doesn't require it, either legally or generally customarily.

There's also the whole aspect of if you "save" these oppressed women by government action, do you really think their men will behave any differently, or that, having had their niqab, hijab, burqa, whatever banned by law will suddenly make them leave their abusive families, get jobs, wear jeans, and sing "I Am Woman?"

I shift to the burqua because I only have direct experience with women and burqas or hijabs...I don't know about the niqab and I have not had an opportunity to speak directly to Muslims about it...until I do, my opinion is uninformed, merely my opinion, and thus I have no agenda or thoughts about it one way or another...with the burqua I do

I don't really care much what peoples' opinions are that are based on their feelings on this issue or what they perceive to be right...I do care about informed opinions...if a whole bunch of burqua wearing women speak to me about why they want it, tell me buddy isn't forcing them and they know they aren't going to hell if they don't, then have at it...so far...zero and I do mean ZERO muslim women I have spoken to endorse the wearing of it..here in my area I have never seen anyone wear a niqub in public ever

I have tried on a burqua....I think any man who endorses his partner wear one should have to wear it too...bastards

as for laws banning it...lets see how many radicals who endorse it immigrate here when we tell them it's illegal, "she will NOT be wearing it...and if you kill her for it, like your ilk is want to do, we won't kill you, but we will send you home with a target on your back".

funny thing about slavery and to me this is certainly slavery...some people were afraid to take off their chains too, they were debased and abused, and minimized...once they did remove those shackles, they didn't look back,

no I don't think it will suddenly enlighten the neanderthal mind set but it will certainly send a message that we here in Canada are completely and fully aware of what the burqua represents and we do not endorse it, in fact we have outlawed it, just like making others wear chains

we have to lose our fear of helping others and step out of our comfort zone by asking questions of other cultures that we are unfamiliar with...we have to dare to make mistakes, dare to offend, dare to err...and connect as human beings

 

[Zipperfish]

you so don't get it on this...I call my boyfriend "my guy" for god sake, not everything is about misogynism

I would suggest you read about what happens to women when the taliban arrive in their villages...female doctors can no longer practice, women can't go to a male doctor, teachers can't teach and the list just goes on from there

and guess what they all have to wear?

there is no place in our society for these chains...no place

I don't have to read about it. I've seen it. I was there for a year recently. I was at a forum on womens rights in Kabul. They considered it a great leap ahead that women were now being beat in the back of the head instead of on the face, where it would leave marks.


I'm no fan of religious fundies, least of all Muslim ones. We have all kinds of weird religious peccadillos in our society as well. Gential mutilation of baby boys. Women covering their breasts--which is exactly the same as all the other coverings mandated by other religions although less severe. Ask a woman why she won't cast aside her burqa and the answer would be similar to asking a western woman why she won't walk around topless: people would stare at me. I would be harassed. I'd be humiliated and embarrassed. it would invite unwanted advances from men.

Ultimately it should be a choice for the woman. Unless you're willing to walk around topless. :lol:

 

[Sal]

I don't have to read about it. I've seen it. I was there for a year recently.

I was at a forum on womens rights in Kabul. They considered it a great leap ahead that women were now being beat in the back of the head instead of on the face, where it would leave marks.

yes? so you should then understand unless change is pressed it won't happen,these women you were with can't walk down the street and show a flash of skin without being smashed on the ankles if the burqua isn't long enough...barbaric

I'm no fan of religious fundies, least of all Muslim ones.

contrary to what most would think or like to believe, the numbers are small and we need to speak out for them

We have all kinds of weird religious peccadillos in our society as well. Gential mutilation of baby boys.

yes sad but true, however that is irrelevant to the lives of these women

Women covering their breasts--which is exactly the same as all the other coverings mandated by other religions although less severe.

balogna...in Ontario we can go topless...beaches all over Europe they go naked...western society is prudish about their bodies but the way we dress isn't physically suffocating or dangerous and we have choice

Ask a woman why she won't cast aside her burqa and the answer would be similar to asking a western woman why she won't walk around topless: people would stare at me. I would be harassed. I'd be humiliated and embarrassed. it would invite unwanted advances from men.

which is why in Canada it should not be allowed...period

Ultimately it should be a choice for the woman. Unless you're willing to walk around topless. :lol:

that is balogna too, and after living over there you know it...you must have Muslim women that you interact with so you must know they oppose this...even some men that seem to have adopted Western values can be brutal when the door is closed if she removes her hijab in public or if it slips off

it isn't the womans choice which is precisely the point,

chains should be a choice? no

ownership should be a choice? no

not in this country

 

[Zipperfish]

yes sad but true, however that is irrelevant to the lives of these women

Not, however, irrelevant to me.

balogna...in Ontario we can go topless...beaches all over Europe they go
naked...western society is prudish about their bodies but the way we dress isn't
physically suffocating or dangerous and we have choice

I've worked in downtown Vancouver for many years. Not once have I seen a topless woman. It's perfectly legal in Vancouver. They have a choice. Just doesn't happen. Why?

Sorry unless those whining about it are going to show me their t!ts, they should just STFU.

that is balogna too, and after living over there you know it...you must have
Muslim women that you interact with so you must know they oppose this...even
some men that seem to have adopted Western values can be brutal when the door is
closed if she removes her hijab in public or if it slips off

You are making a lot of assumptions that someone who has never lived over there would make.

I have contempt for turbans and heeb caps and niqabs and all the other stupid crap people do. I would personally send this woman back to Pakistan, since she's not a citizen of this coutnry anyways and looks like she's just going to be a big loud-mouth pain-in-the-***. Muslims and feminists are similar in that respect. It's all "ME ME ME!"

However, I don't think we should legislate against what kind of clothes people should have to wear.