1170 Inmates freed from Kandahar Prison

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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what a gigantic pointless waste of time, if this doesn't prove we've set out to do the impossible, nothing will, the notion that we or anyone else can mould that region into what we want is laughable.

The supreme Irony of the compromised facility being a "showcase of our efforts" would be downright hilarious if people could see it for what it represents- hell the entire fiasco could be summed up with this one incident

Things will be more or less the same there no matter what we do.

When will some folks be able to see how stupid and pointless "our Afghan mission" truly is I wonder?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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The prison, it turns out, was being developed with Canadian help into a showcase.........with a library, Mosque, education facilties, more humane detention.....all with lots of Canadian help and assistance.

Show us the pictures and documentation, we all know the crap you believe don't expect us to accept your word without some proof. A showcase of western humanity. Christ Colpy is there no rubbish from the empire that you won't swallow? The very fact that the president of Afghanistan and his family are not in the prison is proof enough of the scam of western intentions.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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The prison, it turns out, was being developed with Canadian help into a showcase.........with a library, Mosque, education facilties, more humane detention.....all with lots of Canadian help and assistance.

That's all very nice. But in hindsite, concrete pillars to prevent truck bombs from getting too close should have been a renovation priority. I imagine it will be now...
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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I found several articles regarding prison conditions. Doesn't sound like a nice place. One article notes a lack of heavy security. The Taliban appear to have noticed the same thing.

Return to Kandahar prison
Prisoners’ stories give glimpse behind the scenes of insurgency
By SCOTT TAYLOR Special
Mon. Jun 9 - 4:31 AM


A prisoner sits shackled in Kandahar prison.(Scott TayloR)
....



KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — Last May, at the height of the controversy surrounding the handling of Afghan detainees, I visited the notorious detention centre that was at the centre of the debate. There had been a number of published accounts alleging serious abuse and torture at the hands of Afghan security officials after prisoners captured by Canadian soldiers were released into the custody of Afghanistan’s National Directorate of Security....

...on a guided tour of the new cells I saw that instead of bare concrete floors, there are now carpets in the hallway and general population areas. Inside the individual cells, each of the 15 inmates had a copy of the Qur’an, a pillow, a blanket and a bottle of water or pop. The bathroom area was primitive, but new and spotlessly clean.
Mohammad noted that the prisoners all received two to three hours each day to exercise in the outdoor garden area. This small patch of packed earth is not much of a garden, but Mohammad advised me that improvements will soon be made, as the Canadian military has requested that this outdoor area be enhanced.
Of the 15 detainees, three gave their consent to be interviewed. One by one they were brought to an interrogation room, where they explained through an interpreter why they were incarcerated. The first was a 25-year-old police officer named Baqidat. He explained that he and his partner left their checkpoint to go swimming in a nearby canal. As they swam, Taliban insurgents arrived and confiscated their uniforms and weapons. They then executed Baqidat’s comrade before fleeing the scene. When a naked Baqidat showed up at the hospital carrying his friend’s body, he was arrested for dereliction of duty.
The case of the second prisoner, Abdul Razzaq, was a little more sinister. Razzaq was also a policeman who had been on duty at a checkpoint that was overrun by Taliban. Some 50 insurgent fighters killed all 11 of Razzaq’s fellow police officers in their sleep, while he miraculously managed to escape into the village. It was widely suspected that Razzaq had conspired with the Taliban, and he was arrested immediately upon his return to duty.
The third and final detainee was a lanky 19-year-old named Atikula. The border police picked up this young man when they discovered he was bringing into Afghanistan an envelope full of "night letters" — threatening notices that Taliban supporters deliver at night to villagers suspected of co-operating with NATO forces. Atikula’s defence was that, like 70 per cent of Kandahar residents, he is illiterate and therefore did not know what exactly he was carrying into the country.
Two policemen who either failed in their duty or deliberately sold out their comrades and an illiterate teenager are not the backbone of the Taliban, but their tales certainly shed some interesting light on a complex and challenging insurgency.
As I prepared to leave the detention centre, I received word that a NATO offensive had scored a major success against the Taliban just west of Kandahar.

http://www.thechronicleherald.ca/Opinion/1060963.html

...
To get to the detention centre we were met by a plainclothes escort at the governor's guesthouse and driven to an unmarked prison just a few blocks away.

Although there is a series of road barricades to negotiate before the main vehicle gate, the detention centre is surprisingly void of heavy security. There are no guard towers or bunkers, just a walled compound topped with razor wire, not unlike any other government building in Afghanistan.

While discreet in appearance, the detention centre's location is certainly no secret. The families of suspected Taliban detainees are allowed to visit prisoners and bring them food once a week and a number of these visitors were at the compound when we arrived.

Centre officials said they can hold suspects for 72 hours. If they believe a case warrants further investigation, the suspect can remain at the facility for 15 days. Any incarceration beyond that point requires a court-ordered extension.

"If we (directorate) have made the arrest, the processing procedure is usually quite quick as we make sure we have sufficient evidence prior to apprehending them," said Karzai.

"The delays occur when we receive prisoners from other agencies such as NATO troops, and we have to begin an investigation with very little information."

The tour began in the basement cells where eight shackled men sat or reclined on their dirty bedding. This was the "general population" area and while it was evident the facility had been recently cleaned, there was no lingering odour of human excrement or filth, which would have been difficult to mask for the benefit of our tour. Some prisoners seemed amused at the intrusion while others stared blankly at us as we filmed them.

On the other side of the basement were the solitary cells. Narrow enough for each occupant to barely lie down on his grubby mat, all inmates in this section were shackled at the feet and kept behind locked doors.

All the doors were opened for us to inspect conditions and examine the state of the prisoners.

In all cells the prisoner had reading material - usually a copy of the Koran - water bottles and a few personal items.

While some of the solitary cells were kept darkened, we were allowed to light these in order to view them and photograph them.

Nowhere in the entire complex was there any sign of the cages in which detainees were allegedly confined.

Following the prisoner inspection we were shown the guards' quarters on the second floor. Here the security force lives eight to a room, sleeping in bunks lined with bedding equally filthy to that of the prisoners.

The interrogation room was a spartan office with a couple of desks, like any police station interview room, only with more battered furniture.

While the security directorate denied they beat or tortured suspects to extract confessions and intelligence, they did not divulge what they did to coerce prisoners.

The prisoner in the interrogation room during our visit was a suspect in a kidnapping.

As the night watchman at a school where the kidnap victim was held, the prisoner was believed to be implicated in the crime. Through an interpreter he told us his family was aware of his situation and had visited him in the prison.

Not evident were any of the alleged ceiling chains from which prisoners claim to have been suspended during interrogations.

In fact, the cracked plaster ceiling looked barely capable of supporting the weight of the flimsy light fixture, never mind the weight of a man.

Every office, cupboard and toilet facility was opened for our inspection, including a visit to the roof and the dining facility.

Huge chunks of a freshly slaughtered sheep were being boiled in an immense cauldron over an open fire.

"The prisoners receive the same food as the guards and prison staff," said Karzai.

"They receive bread and tea for breakfast, meat and rice for lunch and dinner."

The yogurt for prisoner consumption was heavily watered down in a large pot. Admittedly, the food appeared to be unappetizingly thin fare, but the prisoners' family and friends supplement the daily ration.

At the conclusion of the tour Karzai again pointed out the importance of maintaining good relations with Canadians.

He said he would also be willing to negotiate a new arrangement wherebythe Canadian military could routinely access the facility to monitor the prisoners they hand over.

"The detention centre is not a nice place to be," said a senior security directorate official.

"It's not supposed to be. But we do not do those things which (Canadian) media have accused us of having done."

http://www.espritdecorps.ca/Visit to Kandahar prison/Visit to Kandahar prison.htm
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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Have you lost your mind?
No, Colpy, I haven't!! It was instant joy without any thinking beforehand! That's the way I am... I don't support bullies!
Really, sometimes you are just out of it.
Thank you for being so civil to me!:smile:
Many of these prisoners were common criminals.
Colpy, the REAL criminals in Afghanistan are free and keep corrupting the country. Karzai was just pledged another 21 billion, along with a request to do something to stop the corruption!!
The rest were Taliban.........who would have you whipped, beaten, imprisoned or stoned to death for any number of things you regularly do here in Canada, like be seen in public without either your father, brother or husband to escort you (don't have any male relatives? Good. Starve to death inside), be seen without your face and body completely covered, and on and on.
But Colpy, we, the West, are not in Afghanistan for that!!! Or is that now the new and improved official reason for fighting there for the past seven years? I thought we Canadians are fighting there for the Americans to secure the oil and gas pipe-lines, and help secure a solid strategic foothold for the US in the region.
To say nothing of which these people harboured the folks that murdered 24 Canadians on 9-11, and over 2500 of our allies.
THAT I doubt profoundly!! IF the official 9/11 story is to be believed, then why not go after Saudi Arabia where the high-jackers came from? And to invade a country that is ruled by Islamic Fundamentalists who are by way of the dictionary linked to the fundamentalists that flew into the American towers and accidentally killed 24 Canadians who so happened to be there at the time, is like pulling teeth from a hen for having bitten a fox!!!
Not to mention the 85 soldiers we have lost in Afghanistan.
They knew they were risking their lives, there was no order they had to enroll. They were brainwashed like the rest of the Canadians. Talks about honor, doing the right thing to save us from those stone-aged maniacs, the poor Afghan women get no education, Canadian tradition to help secure peace in the world etc., plus the benefits of good pay, learning some skills.... those are the lures being used to get recruits. Many of our boys come from poor situations, unemployed, dropouts, deadend road. I read how the military specifically targeted the poorer Maritime Provinces for their recruiting tactics. I feel very sorry for the fallen 85, to have unknowingly given their lives for a shady cause. Canada has no legitimate reason to fight in Afghanistan!!
Pull your head out of the sand and look around. Being against the war in Afghanistan is a valid political opinion. Support for the enemy borders on sedition.
We have no enemy we have to fight off right now, dear Colpy! Maybe your head is in the sand???:smile: Look around, where do you see an enemy threatening us? I see none!
Guess who will have to hunt these guys down again?
You perceive them as animals? I don't! They are human beings who have no obligation to answer to us! WE are at fault!! By what right are we in Afghanistan killing and incarcerating people who have done absolutely nothing to us, not even threatening us? You should think about that, once you manage to get the facts straight!
I'm trying REALLY hard to be polite here.
And I REALLY appreciate that from you, a gentleman!! I see no reason why you should not treat me politely,... because we have different opinions? Colpy, that would be so immature and childish.
 
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missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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Our presence there is nothing but an exercise in futility:-( this event only proves to me that anytime the taliban wants to do it,they will wipe out our troops. Bring our boys home before many more of them will die for next to nothing.
 

talloola

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Nov 14, 2006
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Our presence there is nothing but an exercise in futility:-( this event only proves to me that anytime the taliban wants to do it,they will wipe out our troops. Bring our boys home before many more of them will die for next to nothing.

So then tell me, why haven't the taliban done it by now, if we are so feeble, what are they waiting for.
 
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missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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Every invading army found out the hard way that Afgh. can't be conquored. Read your history books! Does anybody seriously think our army is better than the russians?:-?
 

mabudon

Metal King
Mar 15, 2006
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it's not that- look up how many troops Russia threw at the situation for how long before they totally gave up, should prove enlightening


Why haven't the "enemy" wiped us out?? cos they don't HAVE to. I expect that's partly why the futility continues. Some folks make money off of supplying arms for the good guys, some for the bad, and endless revenue stream paid for by citizens of various countries. It all works in the grand scheme. Also as to the "why not wipe them out" (and a little closer to what I believe is the easiest explanation, the aforementioned merely is part of the overall deal) Think of "The Great Escape"- if captured (replace this with "occupied") you are to force the enemy to waste as much resources as you can manage in your detention. They don't have to beat us, they only have to survive us and make things REAL hard for us

We can't "win" lol but it's quaint to see folks cling to some fantasy of "victory"
 
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CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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it's not that- look up how many troops Russia threw at the situation for how long before they totally gave up, should prove enlightening
Then look at what Russia attempted to do to Afghan society. They made the same errors as the British.

Yes, we are intruding, no we shouldn't be forcing a form of governance on a people, that it is as foreign to, as we are. But, we are not the Russians and we are not the British. And other then the military force, you really can not compare the three in the same light.
 

mabudon

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Mar 15, 2006
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Seriously, I would LOVE to believe that we are engaged in that region for altruistic reasons but I just can't, I deep down believe that our intentions are identical to the intentions of thos you mentioned


Also deep down I have a powerful notion that most of the folks in Afghanistan don't really like "the coalition" being there in the first place- I would go so far as to suggest that at LEAST part of this prison break was from the inside- and I don't mean the prisoners

I mean, sure, they're the enemy etc but I can't see how anyone could say that a decent number of "man on the street" in Afghanistan types can be blamed for outright hating the current military forces occupying (and bombing the hell out of "selectively") their country

CDNBear, if YOUR country were overrun, you'd fight the invaders wouldn't you??
 

dancing-loon

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Oct 8, 2007
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it's not that- look up how many troops Russia threw at the situation for how long before they totally gave up, should prove enlightening
Don't forget, Mabudon, the Russians were actually fighting the Americans!!! It was the Americans who operated in the background and supplied the necessary weapons to the Mujehadin and bin Laden with his Taliban.
The Russian invasion in December 79 was the signal for U.S. support to the Afghan rebels to increase dramatically. Three weeks after Soviet tanks rolled into Kabul, Carter's secretary of defense, Harold Brown, was in Beijing arranging for a weapons transfer from the Chinese to the ClA-backed Afghani troops mustered in Pakistan. The Chinese, who were generously compensated for the deal, agreed and even consented to send military advisers. Brown worked out a similar arrangement with Egypt to buy $15 million worth of weapons. "The U.S. contacted me," [then-Egyptian president] Anwar Sadat recalled shortly before his assassination [in 1981]. "They told me, 'Please open your stores for us so that we can give the Afghans the armaments they need to fight.' And I gave them the armaments. The transport of arms to the Afghans started from Cairo on U.S. planes."

By February 1980, the Washington Post reported that the mujahideen was receiving arms coming from the U.S. government.
 

gopher

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Jun 26, 2005
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The only thing that helps Taliban recruiting is continued foreign occupation. While I certainly wouldn't want to live under a system such as theirs, like it or not, it's what many Afghans want. And it is their right to determine for themselves what type of government will rule them.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Seriously, I would LOVE to believe that we are engaged in that region for altruistic reasons but I just can't, I deep down believe that our intentions are identical to the intentions of thos you mentioned
I wish I could argue that, but I can't because I believe virtually the same thing.


Also deep down I have a powerful notion that most of the folks in Afghanistan don't really like "the coalition" being there in the first place- I would go so far as to suggest that at LEAST part of this prison break was from the inside- and I don't mean the prisoners
Seems plausible.

I mean, sure, they're the enemy etc but I can't see how anyone could say that a decent number of "man on the street" in Afghanistan types can be blamed for outright hating the current military forces occupying (and bombing the hell out of "selectively") their country
The same could have been, and was said by the Dutch about the Allies. They despised us. But hey, they love us now...go figure. Freedom beats tyranny hands down every time.

CDNBear, if YOUR country were overrun, you'd fight the invaders wouldn't you??
If they came to vanquish the dirty Liberal regime, I'ld fight along side them...lol...j/k...I understand what you're getting at. But I would have to agree that the value Taliban or their Canadian equivalent, was worth keeping the train schedules on time, to find any hate against someone that would rid the country of them.

Don't forget, Mabudon, the Russians were actually fighting the Americans!!! It was the Americans who operated in the background and supplied the necessary weapons to the Mujehadin and bin Laden with his Taliban.
Actually no Loonie...

The Russians were originally fighting a rag tag group of Afghans. They formed the Mujehadin and Bin Ladin became the US's bag man in Saudi Arabia. The Taliban formed in the power vacuum the sprouted after the Russian withdrawl. Formed by Pakistani secret police and Clerics.

Bi Ladin's hatred for the US was formulated by the US's installation of bases and their continued presence in Saudi Arabia. The holy center of Islam. Everything else is just fodder for the cause.

The only thing that helps Taliban recruiting is continued foreign occupation. While I certainly wouldn't want to live under a system such as theirs, like it or not, it's what many Afghans want. And it is their right to determine for themselves what type of government will rule them.
Gopher, I couldn't agree with you more.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Bin Laden's beefs with the west are clearly articulated by Bin Laden himself in this 1997 interview by Peter Arnett.

Transcript of Osama Bin Ladin interview by Peter Arnett

The first-ever television interview with Osama Bin Ladin was conducted by Peter Arnett in eastern Afghanistan in late March 1997. Questions were submitted in advance. Bin Ladin responded to almost all of the questions. CNN was not allowed to ask follow up questions. The interview lasted just over an hour.

ARNETT: Mr. Bin Ladin, could you give us your main criticism of the Saudi royal Family that is ruling Saudi Arabia today?


REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?

BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon).

Note:
OBL references this 1996 incident:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qana_Massacre
not this 2006 incident:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Qana_airstrike

This US government abandoned even humanitarian feelings by these hideous crimes. It transgressed all bounds and behaved in a way not witnessed before by any power or any imperialist power in the world. They should have been considerate that the qibla (Mecca) of the Muslims upheaves the emotion of the entire Muslim World. Due to its subordination to the Jews the arrogance and haughtiness of the US regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied the qibla of the Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion in the world today. For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US, because in our religion it is our duty to make jihad so that God's word is the one exalted to the heights and so that we drive the Americans away from all Muslim countries. As for what you asked whether jihad is directed against US soldiers, the civilians in the land of the Two Holy Places (Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina) or against the civilians in America, we have focused our declaration on striking at the soldiers in the country of The Two Holy Places. The country of the Two Holy Places has in our religion a peculiarity of its own over the other Muslim countries. In our religion, it is not permissible for any non-Muslim to stay in our country. Therefore, even though American civilians are not targeted in our plan, they must leave. We do not guarantee their safety, because we are in a society of more than a billion Muslims. A reaction might take place as a result of US government's hitting Muslim civilians and executing more than 600 thousand Muslim children in Iraq by preventing food and medicine from reaching them. So, the US is responsible for any reaction, because it extended its war against troops to civilians. This is what we say. As for what you asked regarding the American people, they are not exonerated from responsibility, because they chose this government and voted for it despite their knowledge of its crimes in Palestine, Lebanon, Iraq and in other places and its support of its agent regimes who filled our prisons with our best children and scholars. We ask that may God release them.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, will the end of the United States' presence in Saudi Arabia, their withdrawal, will that end your call for jihad against the United States and against the US ?

BIN LADIN: The cause of the reaction must be sought and the act that has triggered this reaction must be eliminated. The reaction came as a result of the US aggressive policy towards the entire Muslim world and not just towards the Arabian peninsula. So if the cause that has called for this act comes to an end, this act, in turn, will come to an end. So, the driving-away jihad against the US does not stop with its withdrawal from the Arabian peninsula, but rather it must desist from aggressive intervention against Muslims in the whole world.

REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, tell us about your experience during the Afghan war and what did you do during that jihad?

BIN LADIN:...

http://anusha.com/osamaint.htm
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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While it may be convenient or satisfy some hunger for revenge...performing an act of criminal violence against the people of America makes Bin Laden exactly what he finds so repugnant. It may well be that the cowboy mentality of America is the choice of communication techniques most easily undertaken but it resolves nothing. Bin Laden is another unfortunate un-evolved human being who believes that positive outcomes can proceed from negative actions. It's a page taken from the American manual on foreign policy that the end justifies the means.