105 US children died from flu this season, 90% were unvaccinated

[Tonington]

CDC - Seasonal Influenza (Flu) - CDC Reports About 90 Percent of Children Who Died From Flu This Season Not Vaccinated

I wonder what the moronic anti-vaccine spin will be this year. Preventable deaths, such a waste.

 

[karrie]

I'm not going to argue the value of vaccines.

But what I will argue is the implication that parents need to at all times, be on top of all the ways they can prevent the deaths of their children.

I didn't vaccinate my asthmatic son this year. We vaccinated him during the H1N1 outbreak, but other than that we haven't stressed too much about it. He crosses the road every day. He rides a bike. We drive down the highway. We do what we can to minimize risks where they're at the forefront, but man, if something slips past our notice, we forget something, and I lose my kid, the last thing I'd want to see is someone going on to me about how preventable it was.

Parents can only spend so much time trying to make sure every base is covered. I'm willing to bet the large majority of those unvaccinated kids were unvaccinated just due to oversight, not because their parents were 'anti-vaccine'.

Needless (sorry, you said preventable) deaths, yes, (almost) anytime a child dies it is.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

CDC - Seasonal Influenza (Flu) - CDC Reports About 90 Percent of Children Who Died From Flu This Season Not Vaccinated

I wonder what the moronic anti-vaccine spin will be this year. Preventable deaths, such a waste.

Probably "Gol-dang gummint takin' away mah rahts!" A perennial favourite.

Or perhaps the other perennial favourite "Evil corporate America doing unnatural things to kids!"

Or both. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[talloola]

I'm not going to argue the value of vaccines.

But what I will argue is the implication that parents need to at all times, be on top of all the ways they can prevent the deaths of their children.

I didn't vaccinate my asthmatic son this year. We vaccinated him during the H1N1 outbreak, but other than that we haven't stressed too much about it. He crosses the road every day. He rides a bike. We drive down the highway. We do what we can to minimize risks where they're at the forefront, but man, if something slips past our notice, we forget something, and I lose my kid, the last thing I'd want to see is someone going on to me about how preventable it was.

Parents can only spend so much time trying to make sure every base is covered. I'm willing to bet the large majority of those unvaccinated kids were unvaccinated just due to oversight, not because their parents were 'anti-vaccine'.

Needless (sorry, you said preventable) deaths, yes, (almost) anytime a child dies it is.

yes karrie, your points are well taken, we can't keep our kids 100% safe from something happening to them,

having said that, the more people who receve the flu shot, the more people will 'not get the flu, as

we who get the shot, protect others, who don't.

None of my daughters get the flu shot, two think it is harmful, the others just don't bother.

Each to his own, I don't tell them what they should or should not do, they are good parents, and do

what they think is best for their families.

 

[darkbeaver]

(NaturalNews) The USA is in an official flu pandemic panic right now, with Boston declaring a public health emergency and hospitals setting up flu treatment tents as if cities were war zones. The CDC says it's the worst flu pandemic in a decade, and it's of course urging everybody to get injected with flu vaccines.

But here's the dirty little secret the vaccine industry doesn't want you to know: Most people getting the flu right now are the same people who were vaccinated with the flu shot.

The CDC refuses to release any statistics on this, of course, because then the total hoax of the flu shot would be exposed. But I've been making phone calls to a large network of friends and professional contacts, and they're all telling me the same thing: Of the people they know who are getting sick, about two-thirds routinely get flu shots!

Learn more: Flu epidemic strikes millions of Americans already vaccinated against the flu
​

CDC - Seasonal Influenza (Flu) - CDC Reports About 90 Percent of Children Who Died From Flu This Season Not Vaccinated

I wonder what the moronic anti-vaccine spin will be this year. Preventable deaths, such a waste.

I'm not sure what criteria you use to judge the scientific and medical PHDs who condemn the vaccine industry and the practice but I can see that you are a poor , at best' judge of morons.

 

[Tonington]

Karrie, I'm not implying that the parents of those kids were anti-vaccine. I am implying that the group I did mention-such as our resident rodent above- will spin these details. If their goals were realized, the figures would be far higher. Not only from influenza, but from a host of pathogens. In fact the figures from this year are about average.

Tangentially, is it a matter of time until impacts on things like herd immunity are treated the same as second hand smoke? There's definitely evidence to support that.

I bring these things up in a discussion forum, not to chastise parents for the decisions they make. I'd never tell parents that the death of their child was probably preventable.

 

[Niflmir]

yes karrie, your points are well taken, we can't keep our kids 100% safe from something happening to them,

having said that, the more people who receve the flu shot, the more people will 'not get the flu, as

we who get the shot, protect others, who don't.

None of my daughters get the flu shot, two think it is harmful, the others just don't bother.

Each to his own, I don't tell them what they should or should not do, they are good parents, and do

what they think is best for their families.

I don't have children, but for me personally, I am too lazy to take a few hours off work and too stingy to go pay for something that will possibly prevent my illness and or death.

If it were free or mandated... that might change things for me.

 

[karrie]

I don't have children, but for me personally, I am too lazy to take a few hours off work and too stingy to go pay for something that will possibly prevent my illness and or death.

If it were free or mandated... that might change things for me.

Many people are also too busy to remember, especially when it comes to something that they've gone through and not died, so many times.

Karrie, I'm not implying that the parents of those kids were anti-vaccine. I am implying that the group I did mention-such as our resident rodent above- will spin these details. If their goals were realized, the figures would be far higher. Not only from influenza, but from a host of pathogens. In fact the figures from this year are about average.

Tangentially, is it a matter of time until impacts on things like herd immunity are treated the same as second hand smoke? There's definitely evidence to support that.

I bring these things up in a discussion forum, not to chastise parents for the decisions they make. I'd never tell parents that the death of their child was probably preventable.

Okay, fair enough.

I think if they want a broader usage of the flu vaccine, they need to start bringing it into the schools the way they do the rest of them. The results are pretty provable.

 

[darkbeaver]

Dr. Jefferson has observed strong biases in the selection of trial participants throughout vaccine industry-conducted trials. His conclusions state that “evidence from systematic reviews show that inactivated [influenza] vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured.” He has discovered that there is “gross overestimation of the impact of influenza, unrealistic expectations of the performance of vaccines, and spurious certainty of our ability to predict viral circulation and impact. The consequences,’ Dr. Jefferson states, “are seen in the impractical advice given by public bodies on thresholds of the incidence of influenza-like illness at which influenza specific interventions (antivirals) should be used.”[3] When it comes to identifying the infecting virus for any case displaying flu-like systems, only PCR is very reliable, and there can be anywhere from 152-200 different infections contributing to flu-like symptoms. This reinforces an opinion by Dr. Anthony Morris, a former Chief Vaccine Officer at the FDA, “The producers of these [influenza] vaccines know they are worthless, but they go on selling them anyway.” We would add from a review of the CDC’s statistics on influenza threats, they are intentionally misleading and medically worthless.Are Vaccines Safe? | Global Research

 

[shadowshiv]

My dad got sick every time he took the flu shot (and the rest of us, who didn't get the shot, didn't get sick). Something in it made him get sick, so he stopped taking it. He has gotten sick less times now. I'm not saying people shouldn't get the shots, but it doesn't work for everybody.

And the following is a legitimate question(I don't belong to the flu shots are evil school of thought). Does the prevalence of flu shots create new antibiotic-resistant bugs (the "superbugs") or are they caused by other factors?

 

[talloola]

a vaccine just puts a little of the flu viruses into your system (dead virus), and your body will do the
rest by building resistance, just as though you had the flu and recovered, which also leaves resistant
anti bodies in your system, quite a natural process

its not like an anti biotic, which attacks the disease itself, then the disease will mutate to be
stronger the next time against that disease, 'unless' the disease is totally killed off, which is why
one must take the complete prescription and not 'stop' before medicine is gone.

anyway, that is the way I understand the process.

i've never had any side effects from the flu shot, after years and years of receiving it, and i've
also not had the flu in all those years, I know they don't know 'exactly' what flus wil arrive each
year, but the studies they do each 'off' season to decide just what to use are very accurate, not
foolproof.

I watched a documentary some time ago showing how they sit in their laboratories for weeks and weeks
studying and deciding just how the flu moves around the world, then make their decision how to mix
the diffrent strains for the 'next' flu shots, very dedicated people.

 

[Niflmir]

My dad got sick every time he took the flu shot (and the rest of us, who didn't get the shot, didn't get sick). Something in it made him get sick, so he stopped taking it. He has gotten sick less times now. I'm not saying people shouldn't get the shots, but it doesn't work for everybody.

And the following is a legitimate question(I don't belong to the flu shots are evil school of thought). Does the prevalence of flu shots create new antibiotic-resistant bugs (the "superbugs") or are they caused by other factors?

Some people have allergic reactions from the ingredients. I believe there is a movement of people that try to get them to stop using polyethylene glycol, for instance. Other people suffer the nocebo effect.

Consider that some people faint the minute they receive a needle: there are some clear psychological components for some people.

 

[Walter]

What we can't know is how many of the unvaccinated would have died had they taken the vaccine. 105 deaths in such a large country would be a statistical 0 in a stats class, so obviously the American health system is terrible.

Can we find out how many cannuck kids died of the flu?

 

[Niflmir]

What we can't know is how many of the unvaccinated would have died had they taken the vaccine. 105 deaths in such a large country would be a statistical 0 in a stats class, so obviously the American health system is terrible.

Can we find out how many cannuck kids died of the flu?

I'm wondering where you took your stats class... the error on a sample mean varies with one over the square root of the number of participants. With 400 million Americans being the total population, that makes for an incredibly small standard error on the sample mean of deaths amongst the unvaccinated. So as opposed to a large country making a statistical 0, the large country increases the accuracy of the number giving it higher significance.

The efficacy of the vaccine is a similarly measurable quantity. So, you are wrong. It is known how many of the unvaccinated would have died had they taken the vaccine: (1 - efficacy)*105=40.

Early Estimates of Seasonal Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness — United States, January 2013

 

[Tonington]

Does the prevalence of flu shots create new antibiotic-resistant bugs (the "superbugs") or are they caused by other factors?

Antibiotic resistance is caused by other factors, such as bacteria being exposed to sub-clinical doses of antibiotics, or constant long term exposure of the bacteria to the drug. The influenza vaccine is mostly killed or weakened live virus. No antibiotics in a vaccine. In fact vaccines reduce the selective pressure on bacteria to become resistant to drugs.

Can we find out how many cannuck kids died of the flu?

For this flu season, six. Amongst adults, there have been 265 deaths.
FluWatch report: March 10 to March 16, 2013 (Week 11) - Public Health Agency of Canada

 

[damngrumpy]

In BC kids flu shots are free as are at risk seniors and those in families with
seriously at risk people. There are some exceptions but most parents
should in fact have the kids get their shots.
Then there are those who believe the risk is too great to have the shot or there
is some great conspiracy and the flu shot is some evil plot.
This is the strangest generation of young people I have seen so far, they have
all the answers. My suggestion is get the damn flu shot

 

[gerryh]

My dad got sick every time he took the flu shot (and the rest of us, who didn't get the shot, didn't get sick). Something in it made him get sick, so he stopped taking it. He has gotten sick less times now. I'm not saying people shouldn't get the shots, but it doesn't work for everybody.

Same with my old man. He finally stopped getting the shot, stopped getting the flu so bad at the same time.

Then there are those who believe the risk is too great to have the shot or there
is some great conspiracy and the flu shot is some evil plot.
This is the strangest generation of young people I have seen so far, they have
all the answers.

Every generation since the beginning of time has had all the answers. This generation is no different than any other.

 

[damngrumpy]

Gerry you are right to a degree but this generation has some strange ideas.
They believe there is a conspiracy and the vaccine is some terrible thing that
will harm their child. There may well be exceptions where there is a reaction
however a worse reaction is death.
What I was referring to is this its not just youth either but smart meters will
cause illness, cell phones will get you, the seas are going to rise and swallow
up the country.
Everything has to be about drama

 

[Tonington]

My generation differs from those before us, in that the amount of information available is staggering. Yet that doesn't mean we are going to be any better off. More information isn't any better if it is interpreted out of context or incorrectly.

Consider the side effects of an influenza immunization. Some people say it makes them sick. Some even believe they get the flu from the vaccine. A vaccine with killed virus won't give you the flu. It can cause inflammation and fever and many other symptoms, but it won't give you the flu. The symptoms are indicating that the immune system is responding to the antigen in the vaccine. Sometimes it's worse if they are sensitive to the excipients/adjuvants used.

This plethora of information isn't obviously confined to vaccine knowledge. I have to shake my head some days when I read my facebook news feed. Hippies who use organic, who don't realize that just because it says organic doesn't mean it's free of pesticide. Girls who use cosmetic products like hair dyes and other cosmetic agents who rant about chemicals in our food.

I don't think my generation is any different, except that it's far easier to share information. Good and bad.

 

[darkbeaver]

My generation differs from those before us, in that the amount of information available is staggering. Yet that doesn't mean we are going to be any better off. More information isn't any better if it is interpreted out of context or incorrectly.

This plethora of information isn't obviously confined to vaccine knowledge. I have to shake my head some days when I read my facebook news feed. Hippies who use organic, who don't realize that just because it says organic doesn't mean it's free of pesticide. Girls who use cosmetic products like hair dyes and other cosmetic agents who rant about chemicals in our food.

I don't think my generation is any different, except that it's far easier to share information. Good and bad.

Yes the availability and accessibility of information and its rapid wide distribution has created, good or bad, an enormous cloak/fog/trees effect of intimidating choice. It's very hard to in many instances answer the questions we may have. So we need some rough gauges and permanent markers of human nature as navigation aids. Follow the money.