Smokers cost society less in total health care costs


Niflmir
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#1
These are actually some old findings, subtitled --. The basic idea being that, although the actual health related costs of smokers (and obese people) are higher, because non-smokers and the thin live longer, they run up higher costs in total health care expenditure during years when they are retired.

The basic idea being that people are productive until about the age they retire, and during that time are contributing. After that time they are basically draining what they already produced, since smokers produce just as much as non-smokers, but die earlier, they leave the world with the greatest contribution!
 
Cannuck
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

These are actually some old findings, subtitled --. The basic idea being that, although the actual health related costs of smokers (and obese people) are higher, because non-smokers and the thin live longer, they run up higher costs in total health care expenditure during years when they are retired.

The basic idea being that people are productive until about the age they retire, and during that time are contributing. After that time they are basically draining what they already produced, since smokers produce just as much as non-smokers, but die earlier, they leave the world with the greatest contribution!

Nothing new here. Sin taxes have always been a cash generator for governments.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
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+1
#3
Well the simple solution is to just shoot everybody at their retirement party. Problem solved.
 
Cannuck
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Well the simple solution is to just shoot everybody at their retirement party. Problem solved.


Works for me.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Works for me.

My party will be at an undisclosed location.
 
Tonington
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Well the simple solution is to just shoot everybody at their retirement party. Problem solved.

Turn them into food. Another problem solved.
 
petros
#7
Balongna already smells like old people. I won't go near the stuff.
 
Bar Sinister
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+1
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Balongna already smells like old people. I won't go near the stuff.

I resent that. I might be full of baloney, but I don't smell like it.

BTW regarding the post, any drug is dangerous if it it used on a large enough scale. Tobacco and alcohol currently cause the most problems in society simply because they are the most widely used. Increase marijuana use and it would probably result in more harmful incidents concerning the drug.
 
talloola
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+1
#9
the money spent on a patient who has been diagnosed with lung cancer must be overwhelming till his/her death,
and can include more than one surgery, and many months and years of drugs and effort to save the patient,
and I can imagine, could easily amount to 'more', than a healthy person living many many years longer.
 
Dexter Sinister
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Well the simple solution is to just shoot everybody at their retirement party. Problem solved.

Well, okay, as long as it's just everybody but me.
 
bobnoorduyn
Avatar
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

the money spent on a patient who has been diagnosed with lung cancer must be overwhelming till his/her death,
and can include more than one surgery, and many months and years of drugs and effort to save the patient,
and I can imagine, could easily amount to 'more', than a healthy person living many many years longer.

In my experience, the treatment period isn't really that long; friends and relatives who have succumed to the disease didn't last 3 years after diagnosis and treatment. For those wh survived, the treatment didn't last more than a few months. (I'm also lumping in folks with different types of cancer, many of whom didn't smoke and led relatively healthy lifestyles). My treatment and recovery had me off work for three months, one surgery, and yearly follow ups, 11 years and no reccurance, so I'm one of the lucky ones. Smoking causes other ailments, but smoking related cancer seems to either take you fairly quickly, or goes into remission quickly, (mine wasn't in the lung). There are many other lifestyle choices that lead to much more expensive and lengthy long term care.
 
Cannuck
Avatar
#12
Short of dying from case of lead injection or dropping dead from a heart attack, the largest amount of health care dollars will be spent on an individual in the last year of their life. Shooting people at 65 is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
 
mentalfloss
#13
Break coming up soon.

I will do my part and be fiscally responsible.
 
JLM
Avatar
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

These are actually some old findings, subtitled --. The basic idea being that, although the actual health related costs of smokers (and obese people) are higher, because non-smokers and the thin live longer, they run up higher costs in total health care expenditure during years when they are retired.

The basic idea being that people are productive until about the age they retire, and during that time are contributing. After that time they are basically draining what they already produced, since smokers produce just as much as non-smokers, but die earlier, they leave the world with the greatest contribution!

Did you factor in the cost of heart by passes?

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Short of dying from case of lead injection or dropping dead from a heart attack, the largest amount of health care dollars will be spent on an individual in the last year of their life. Shooting people at 65 is the fiscally responsible thing to do.

Shooting SOME people in their 40s might not be a bad idea either, especially ones who are obnoxious posters.
 
CDNBear
#15
Advocating murder, is a troubling descent into idiocy.
 
JLM
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Advocating murder, is a troubling descent into idiocy.

Well maybe just the knee caps.
 
Kreskin
Avatar
+1
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

These are actually some old findings, subtitled --. The basic idea being that, although the actual health related costs of smokers (and obese people) are higher, because non-smokers and the thin live longer, they run up higher costs in total health care expenditure during years when they are retired.

The basic idea being that people are productive until about the age they retire, and during that time are contributing. After that time they are basically draining what they already produced, since smokers produce just as much as non-smokers, but die earlier, they leave the world with the greatest contribution!

I've been saying this for years. It's an easy tax grab.

Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

the money spent on a patient who has been diagnosed with lung cancer must be overwhelming till his/her death,
and can include more than one surgery, and many months and years of drugs and effort to save the patient,
and I can imagine, could easily amount to 'more', than a healthy person living many many years longer.

A healthy person has to get sick and die sooner or later. That cost won't change, but the "healthier" live longer collecting social benefits longer on top of the end of life care etc.
 
JLM
Avatar
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by KreskinView Post

I've been saying this for years. It's an easy tax grab.


A healthy person has to get sick and die sooner or later. That cost won't change, but the "healthier" live longer collecting social benefits longer on top of the end of life care etc.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of seniors die in an uncomplicated fashion such as sudden heart attack or pneumonia.
 
Cannuck
Avatar
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

It would be interesting to know what percentage of seniors die in an uncomplicated fashion such as sudden heart attack or pneumonia.

Pneumonia or heart attacks are usually a complication from something else. People with healthy lungs don't usually die from pneumonia. Heart attacks by themselves, usually strike younger men
 
JLM
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Pneumonia or heart attacks are usually a complication from something else. People with healthy lungs don't usually die from pneumonia. Heart attacks by themselves, usually strike younger men

That didn't answer the phenomena I brought up.
 
Kreskin
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

It would be interesting to know what percentage of seniors die in an uncomplicated fashion such as sudden heart attack or pneumonia.

Probably less than the average smoker.
 
Cannuck
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#22
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

That didn't answer the phenomena I brought up.

Yes it did. Heart attacks and pneumonia are very, very rarely uncomplicated. They inevitably are tied to other things.
 
JLM
Avatar
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Yes it did. Heart attacks and pneumonia are very, very rarely uncomplicated. They inevitably are tied to other things.

I've known several people who lived to a ripe old age in good health and just suddenly died in their sleep or just keeled over doing things like working the garden. Pneumonia can come on quite suddenly and take a fast course, so as usual you are full of bullsh*t again.
 
Cannuck
Avatar
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

so as usual you are full of bullsh*t again.

--

What are the Risk Factors?

Underlying illnesses such as Alzheimer's disease, emphysema, cystic fibrosis, diseases of the immune system, smoking and alcoholism increase the risk of pneumonia. Hospitalization puts seniors at high risk for pneumonia elderly.
Other risk factors for pneumonia elderly:
  • Chronic heart, lung, spleen or kidney disease
  • Any medical condition that impairs the immune system
  • Diabetes
  • Alcoholism
  • History of smoking (damages the lining of the respiratory tract that helps to remove bacteria)
  • Swallowing difficulty due to muscle weakness from a stroke or Parkinson's disease
  • Difficulty initiating swallowing due to advanced dementia
  • Decreased ability to cough
  • Poor dental hygiene leading to higher amounts of potentially harmful bacteria in the mouth (which can then go into the lungs)
  • Previous history of pneumonia
  • Hospitalization


Bull****? That's a strange euphemism for wisdom.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
Avatar
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Short of dying from case of lead injection or dropping dead from a heart attack, the largest amount of health care dollars will be spent on an individual in the last year of their life. Shooting people at 65 is the fiscally responsible thing to do.

It would figure that you would take the comment without the sarcasm in which it was indended.
 
Cannuck
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

It would figure that you would take the comment without the sarcasm in which it was indended.

How do you know boobnoorduyn was being sarcastic?
 
JLM
Avatar
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

--

What are the Risk Factors?

Underlying illnesses such as Alzheimer's disease, emphysema, cystic fibrosis, diseases of the immune system, smoking and alcoholism increase the risk of pneumonia. Hospitalization puts seniors at high risk for pneumonia elderly.
Other risk factors for pneumonia elderly:

  • Chronic heart, lung, spleen or kidney disease
  • Any medical condition that impairs the immune system
  • Diabetes
  • Alcoholism
  • History of smoking (damages the lining of the respiratory tract that helps to remove bacteria)
  • Swallowing difficulty due to muscle weakness from a stroke or Parkinson's disease
  • Difficulty initiating swallowing due to advanced dementia
  • Decreased ability to cough
  • Poor dental hygiene leading to higher amounts of potentially harmful bacteria in the mouth (which can then go into the lungs)
  • Previous history of pneumonia
  • Hospitalization

Bull****? That's a strange euphemism for wisdom.

Sure those things can lead to pneumonia, but not ALL pneumonia, which is what I was referring to. My point is many seniors die very quickly without complications. THOSE are the ONLY ones I'm talking about, Einstein, and all I did was questioned how many died in such a fashion which you are unable to answer so it would have been prudent for you just to keep your trap zipped! Can I explain it any simpler, Genius!
 
Tonington
Avatar
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by KreskinView Post

,
A healthy person has to get sick and die sooner or later. That cost won't change, but the "healthier" live longer collecting social benefits longer on top of the end of life care etc.

The "healthier" will include people take prescription meds for all sorts of age-related illness and breakdowns of bodilly function. Hypertension, diabetes, and increasingly dementia is becoming a larger portion of the long-term costs.
 
BruSan
+2 / -2
#29  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Works for me.

Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Turn them into food. Another problem solved.

Oh boy, same suspects; another nasty thread!

Have fun children.
 
Niflmir
Avatar
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

the money spent on a patient who has been diagnosed with lung cancer must be overwhelming till his/her death,
and can include more than one surgery, and many months and years of drugs and effort to save the patient,
and I can imagine, could easily amount to 'more', than a healthy person living many many years longer.

It is indeed imaginable, which is why people (like myself) have thought for so long that getting people to quit smoking is better for society. But at some point, these authors asked the question, "Well, that is the theory, how does it work in the real world?" and what they found was the opposite. In the short term, the smokers cost much more than a healthy person, but the protracted costs of a long life amount to more in the end.

Then again, these are social cost arguments. There is little comfort in knowing that society will pay less when your family member just died of lung cancer.
 

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