Genius
Posts: 953 
Location: Calgary, AB
Location: Calgary, AB
March 30th, 2006, 01:54 AM
Quoting
you can find a decent 1 bed for less that 700......when you couple that with the wages which are much higher and the abundace of work whereever you happen to live in the city....there should be no problem???? you do worK?
I'm on the other side of this. I'll be one of the few people moving from Alberta to Saskatchewan. Seeing as how the cost of living has skyrocketed with the wages around here, its next to impossible to go to school and have enough money to eat and pay rent. Especially here in Calgary.
Genius
Posts: 953
Location: Calgary, AB
Location: Calgary, AB
March 30th, 2006, 01:59 AM
anywho, northern ontario will never become a province....the last thing we need is another heavy welfare province. If anything was to happen it would see N Ont join with Manitoba, there are some prospects there, but I wouldent hold my breath.
Quoting
Doesn't Manitoba receive transfer payments from the feds?
I'm pro west too, in the Alberta sense of it. We do need to change this little arrangement we have set up, that's a big reason why I vote conservative.
Ontario should annex Manitoba...face it, you would be happier.
yes my friend, Manitoba is a welfare province.....Saskatchewan is far more respectable Doesn't Manitoba receive transfer payments from the feds?
I'm pro west too, in the Alberta sense of it. We do need to change this little arrangement we have set up, that's a big reason why I vote conservative.
Ontario should annex Manitoba...face it, you would be happier.
anywho, northern ontario will never become a province....the last thing we need is another heavy welfare province. If anything was to happen it would see N Ont join with Manitoba, there are some prospects there, but I wouldent hold my breath.
Genius
Posts: 953
Location: Calgary, AB
Location: Calgary, AB
March 30th, 2006, 02:12 AM
Quoting
Ontario is wine sipping yuppies, who call their cabins "cottages", and refer'd to Paul Martin as "mighty Paul".....Alberta is rednecks
Quoting
There are huge differences between Ontario and Alberta but you are right, we probably wouldn't agree what those things are. But that's healthy.
Interesting.
There is a huge diffrence between the two, but I doubt we agree on what that is!
There is a huge diffrence between the two, but I doubt we agree on what that is!
Electoral Member
Posts: 598
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Location: Calgary, Alberta
March 30th, 2006, 02:19 AM
And yes, both my girlfriend and I work. About 25 hours a week each plus school.
Quoting
No problem if all you need is a place to sleep. But then there's gas, insurance (which is still way too high), food, etc. Plus, wages are not that much higher unless you work in a trade or in the oil sands. You might see an extra dollar or two an hour but thats not much when you are still looking at sub $15/h. Quoting
you can find a decent 1 bed for less that 700......when you couple that with the wages which are much higher and the abundace of work whereever you happen to live in the city....there should be no problem???? you do worK?
I'm on the other side of this. I'll be one of the few people moving from Alberta to Saskatchewan. Seeing as how the cost of living has skyrocketed with the wages around here, its next to impossible to go to school and have enough money to eat and pay rent. Especially here in Calgary.
And yes, both my girlfriend and I work. About 25 hours a week each plus school.
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366 
March 30th, 2006, 07:07 AM
I'll bet all those people in N. Ontario who want to either join Manitoba or separate, vote NDP.
Quoting
And you can tell Manitoba to quit eyeing up parts of our province or we will run them over and they won't know what hit them.
If anything was to happen it would see N Ont join with Manitoba, there are some prospects there, but I wouldent hold my breath.
I'll bet all those people in N. Ontario who want to either join Manitoba or separate, vote NDP.
Newbie
Posts: 32
Location: Saskatchewan
Location: Saskatchewan
March 30th, 2006, 10:33 AM
And yes Manitoba has eyed getting at least part of Northern Ontario in the past. In fact, the region around the Lake of the Woods and Kenora was once supposed to be part of Manitoba but some ill-intentioned politics placed them with Ontario. The fact of the matter is that for Northern Ontario, Winnipeg is the major city everyone goes to. The people of Northern Ontario have much more in common with Manitobans. And about the welfare state nonsense--both Northern Ontario and Maniotba both have the infrastructure to take care of themselves. However, both get milked considerably by Southeast Ontario. (Just like Western Canada gets milked by Eastern Canada). Decisions made my the federal government, which were not supported by anyone out west, have caused decades of unfair resource revenues and such. It's why Western alienation exists. And Northern Ontario, just like Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC and Yukon, also suffers all the brunt of it too.
I was beyond happy when Harper won. If he hadn't I would've definitly became a Western seperatist. I don't like the fact that Harper is pro-American but at least he is a Westerner who is fully aware of the flaws in the democratic system and the power inequalities which exist between the regions. Unfortunatly, as part of a minority government, he isn't able to institute too many changes but it is a start to reparing national unity. I hope national unity is worth repairing.
Quoting
I'll bet all those people in N. Ontario who want to either join Manitoba or separate, vote NDP.
Are you talking provincially or federally? I draw a swift line between both. The federal NDP party is nothing like the provincial NDP parties. Quoting
And you can tell Manitoba to quit eyeing up parts of our province or we will run them over and they won't know what hit them.
If anything was to happen it would see N Ont join with Manitoba, there are some prospects there, but I wouldent hold my breath.
I'll bet all those people in N. Ontario who want to either join Manitoba or separate, vote NDP.
And yes Manitoba has eyed getting at least part of Northern Ontario in the past. In fact, the region around the Lake of the Woods and Kenora was once supposed to be part of Manitoba but some ill-intentioned politics placed them with Ontario. The fact of the matter is that for Northern Ontario, Winnipeg is the major city everyone goes to. The people of Northern Ontario have much more in common with Manitobans. And about the welfare state nonsense--both Northern Ontario and Maniotba both have the infrastructure to take care of themselves. However, both get milked considerably by Southeast Ontario. (Just like Western Canada gets milked by Eastern Canada). Decisions made my the federal government, which were not supported by anyone out west, have caused decades of unfair resource revenues and such. It's why Western alienation exists. And Northern Ontario, just like Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, BC and Yukon, also suffers all the brunt of it too.
I was beyond happy when Harper won. If he hadn't I would've definitly became a Western seperatist. I don't like the fact that Harper is pro-American but at least he is a Westerner who is fully aware of the flaws in the democratic system and the power inequalities which exist between the regions. Unfortunatly, as part of a minority government, he isn't able to institute too many changes but it is a start to reparing national unity. I hope national unity is worth repairing.
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
March 30th, 2006, 10:38 AM
I mean provincially.
The people in Northern Ontario have every right to move, live and work in any of the provinces in Canada. They have the right to move to the south of the province if they wish, but there is no fun in that....they would rather bitch and whine about how they have no voice when they receive plenty of money and infrastructure they couldn't afford on their own. If Manitoba took them we would just have to increase the transfer payments to Manitoba. Why bother?
I mean provincially.
The people in Northern Ontario have every right to move, live and work in any of the provinces in Canada. They have the right to move to the south of the province if they wish, but there is no fun in that....they would rather bitch and whine about how they have no voice when they receive plenty of money and infrastructure they couldn't afford on their own. If Manitoba took them we would just have to increase the transfer payments to Manitoba. Why bother?
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
March 30th, 2006, 12:11 PM
Banks manufacture money.
The tax money we send north outweighs what is sent south. It is the south’s money and the north knows it. They even do property taxes differently up there because of this fact….the municipalities don’t collect it the province does. (From my understanding)
If they left we would still be sending them money and I’m willing to bet they would still be bitching.
Perhaps we could send the north more money if we didn't have to fund the rest of the welfare state in Canada....namely the other provinces.
Banks manufacture money.
The tax money we send north outweighs what is sent south. It is the south’s money and the north knows it. They even do property taxes differently up there because of this fact….the municipalities don’t collect it the province does. (From my understanding)
If they left we would still be sending them money and I’m willing to bet they would still be bitching.
Perhaps we could send the north more money if we didn't have to fund the rest of the welfare state in Canada....namely the other provinces.
Newbie
Posts: 32
Location: Saskatchewan
Location: Saskatchewan
March 30th, 2006, 12:17 PM
Why does Ontario have the money it does? The resources which make up the primary industry which results in a secondary industry which results in a tertiary industry. Without the resources from the rest of the country you'd be sunk.
Why is Ontario so eager to maintain national unity? None of the rest of the country feels that way. I have been at many supper tables where the topic was that we should kick out Ontario. We don't need you, but you need us. You're all just a bunch of Americans down there anyways.
Why does Ontario have the money it does? The resources which make up the primary industry which results in a secondary industry which results in a tertiary industry. Without the resources from the rest of the country you'd be sunk.
Why is Ontario so eager to maintain national unity? None of the rest of the country feels that way. I have been at many supper tables where the topic was that we should kick out Ontario. We don't need you, but you need us. You're all just a bunch of Americans down there anyways.
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
March 30th, 2006, 12:28 PM
Thats funny...you don't need us. I don't even know where to begin on that one, but what I will say is I'd be more than happy to stop those transfer payments we send out to the tune of 23 billion annually. Instead we have to grovel to a federal government that pretends it knows how to keep the country together with Ontario money (sorry Alberta too now).
We don't need the North either especially if there going to vote NDP and talk anti-corporation talk and side with Manitoba....gee wiz, I wonder why corporations won't even think of moving up there unless they have no choice.
Ontario is the engine of this country, the rest is car. If people don't want the engine that's too bad because the engine will still produce the power and the car will sit dead on the road.
Ontario
"Ut incepit Fidelis sic permanet"
And BTW we have more to Ontario than the north’s natural resources, we have farm land…..lots and lots of it.
Thats funny...you don't need us. I don't even know where to begin on that one, but what I will say is I'd be more than happy to stop those transfer payments we send out to the tune of 23 billion annually. Instead we have to grovel to a federal government that pretends it knows how to keep the country together with Ontario money (sorry Alberta too now).
We don't need the North either especially if there going to vote NDP and talk anti-corporation talk and side with Manitoba....gee wiz, I wonder why corporations won't even think of moving up there unless they have no choice.
Ontario is the engine of this country, the rest is car. If people don't want the engine that's too bad because the engine will still produce the power and the car will sit dead on the road.
Ontario
"Ut incepit Fidelis sic permanet"
And BTW we have more to Ontario than the north’s natural resources, we have farm land…..lots and lots of it.
Newbie
Posts: 32
Location: Saskatchewan
Location: Saskatchewan
March 30th, 2006, 12:39 PM
Who provides the oil for the engine? And the metal? You may have designed the dang thing and have the patent but who actually builds that engine?
And how much do the farmers benefit from their own land? This goes back to the rural verses urban debate.
Who provides the oil for the engine? And the metal? You may have designed the dang thing and have the patent but who actually builds that engine?
And how much do the farmers benefit from their own land? This goes back to the rural verses urban debate.
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
March 30th, 2006, 12:50 PM
We bring in oil from everywhere, but sure Alberta is a big source. Petrolia is in Southwestern Ontario though....
Steel we get from Algoma....a lot of that steel is shipped to America though. We need steel...we need trees, and them crazy northern Ontario people aren't going to take it away from us!
Farmers do well in Ontario....some not so well, but farmers seemly only believe in the free market when corn is selling high, they believe in socialism when corn sells low. Oh well, the ethanol age is coming upon us and corn will be very important and that should piss off the North!
The north has tourism too, because people like me get sick of sitting in this cornfield of dreams.
We bring in oil from everywhere, but sure Alberta is a big source. Petrolia is in Southwestern Ontario though....
Steel we get from Algoma....a lot of that steel is shipped to America though. We need steel...we need trees, and them crazy northern Ontario people aren't going to take it away from us!
Farmers do well in Ontario....some not so well, but farmers seemly only believe in the free market when corn is selling high, they believe in socialism when corn sells low. Oh well, the ethanol age is coming upon us and corn will be very important and that should piss off the North!
The north has tourism too, because people like me get sick of sitting in this cornfield of dreams.
Newbie
Posts: 32
Location: Saskatchewan
Location: Saskatchewan
March 30th, 2006, 01:13 PM
I guess farmers in Southern Ontario are doing well. Whenever I fly over there I notice all the swimming pools in all the farmyards.
As a daughter of a Saskatchewan farmer who loves the farming way of life and loves the land, it is so hard to see everything we work for be ruined by actions taken by both our provincial government and our federal government. The provincial NDP Party, as I stated earlier, is not anything like the CCF Party of Tommy Douglas. It is a completly different party. The NDP have left its rural roots and become a very urban-focussed party. Every one of the last few Saskatchewan elections the seats were split almost equally amongst rural and urban, with the urban seats consisting of NDP Party MLAs and the rural seats consisting of Sask Party MLAs. With the NDP, almost all their policies are meant to benefit the urban population, leaving the rural population literally and figurativly in the dust. And whatever measures rural Saskatchewan takes to make things better for ourselves, the NDP usually goes against it because it goes against their urban policies. That's why so many rural Saskatchewaners are leaving. It's a depressing situation. It feels like our own provincial government is trying to make us fail.
I am not altogether familiar with the provincial political situation in Ontario regarding support for farmers. Do you feel there is sufficient support for farmers in Ontario?
I guess farmers in Southern Ontario are doing well. Whenever I fly over there I notice all the swimming pools in all the farmyards.
As a daughter of a Saskatchewan farmer who loves the farming way of life and loves the land, it is so hard to see everything we work for be ruined by actions taken by both our provincial government and our federal government. The provincial NDP Party, as I stated earlier, is not anything like the CCF Party of Tommy Douglas. It is a completly different party. The NDP have left its rural roots and become a very urban-focussed party. Every one of the last few Saskatchewan elections the seats were split almost equally amongst rural and urban, with the urban seats consisting of NDP Party MLAs and the rural seats consisting of Sask Party MLAs. With the NDP, almost all their policies are meant to benefit the urban population, leaving the rural population literally and figurativly in the dust. And whatever measures rural Saskatchewan takes to make things better for ourselves, the NDP usually goes against it because it goes against their urban policies. That's why so many rural Saskatchewaners are leaving. It's a depressing situation. It feels like our own provincial government is trying to make us fail.
I am not altogether familiar with the provincial political situation in Ontario regarding support for farmers. Do you feel there is sufficient support for farmers in Ontario?
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
March 30th, 2006, 01:25 PM
I suppose it depends on what you mean by support.
Some farmers think they are getting the shaft and they like to block off the 401 highway over it. They would like to see more handouts I think.
Agriculturial markets are something I think needs to be protected in order to be able to produce a quility, ethical product. I do support not including these things in something like NAFTA.
Are you for or against the Wheat Board?
I suppose it depends on what you mean by support.
Some farmers think they are getting the shaft and they like to block off the 401 highway over it. They would like to see more handouts I think.
Agriculturial markets are something I think needs to be protected in order to be able to produce a quility, ethical product. I do support not including these things in something like NAFTA.
Are you for or against the Wheat Board?
Newbie
Posts: 32
Location: Saskatchewan
Location: Saskatchewan
March 30th, 2006, 11:50 PM
Against, my reason being that they no longer represent real farmers, all the decisions are made my corporate execs who likely haven't ever set foot on a farm and have no awareness of agriculture whatsoever. And there seems to be more of an effort to monopolize the market on the Prairies especailly. To be honest though, I have never really looked into the arguments against the Wheat Board so I don't have a leg to stand on in regards to the Wheat Board debate.
The problem in Saskatchewan is that the NDP is constantly giving contracts to big companies like Monsanto, United Grain Growers, Maple Leaf Pork and the like. These companies (particularily Monsanto) have been creating quite a bit of problems for independant farmers. There are several government committees set up consisting of corporate employees from these groups with no membership given at all to independant farmers.
There is a really good book written by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives called "Beyond Factory Farming: Corporate Hog Barns and the Threat to Public Health, the Environment and Rural Communities" and it explains a lot of the problems farmers face today and how government decisions, using the example of the pork industry, have hurt independant farmers and rural communities. I recommend reading it. It is actaully now available online at the following link:
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/doc...s/hogbarns.pdf
Against, my reason being that they no longer represent real farmers, all the decisions are made my corporate execs who likely haven't ever set foot on a farm and have no awareness of agriculture whatsoever. And there seems to be more of an effort to monopolize the market on the Prairies especailly. To be honest though, I have never really looked into the arguments against the Wheat Board so I don't have a leg to stand on in regards to the Wheat Board debate.
The problem in Saskatchewan is that the NDP is constantly giving contracts to big companies like Monsanto, United Grain Growers, Maple Leaf Pork and the like. These companies (particularily Monsanto) have been creating quite a bit of problems for independant farmers. There are several government committees set up consisting of corporate employees from these groups with no membership given at all to independant farmers.
There is a really good book written by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives called "Beyond Factory Farming: Corporate Hog Barns and the Threat to Public Health, the Environment and Rural Communities" and it explains a lot of the problems farmers face today and how government decisions, using the example of the pork industry, have hurt independant farmers and rural communities. I recommend reading it. It is actaully now available online at the following link:
http://www.policyalternatives.ca/doc...s/hogbarns.pdf
No sparks please
Posts: 379
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
April 6th, 2006, 11:33 PM
Factory Farming is an idea fueled by corporate type thinking. Do more with less. Unfortunately the age of the family farm is gone. Was it an inevitabilty? My relatives are from the Southeast corner of Manitoba. 20 years ago there were 21 small family farms in the area where today there are three "corporate type" farms. They could not survive the stagnation of grain and beef prices while their fuel and equipment costs skyrocketed. So it was "sell the land, keep 20 acres or so of the original homestead and move off to small manfacturing plants in Steinbach or other work in Winnipeg. Are they bitter? No, more like resigned to their fate. Kinda sad though to think about the family history of settling in the post war era, clearing land for years, never really prospering but doing well enough to not have to worry, and then when they're approaching retirement having to sell it all because the kids were all gone. It's a very different and quiet countryside now.
As for blaming one government over another....This happened regardless of who governed, NDP or Conservatives. Governments don't direct economic forces, we do, consumers. We also want more for less.
Factory Farming is an idea fueled by corporate type thinking. Do more with less. Unfortunately the age of the family farm is gone. Was it an inevitabilty? My relatives are from the Southeast corner of Manitoba. 20 years ago there were 21 small family farms in the area where today there are three "corporate type" farms. They could not survive the stagnation of grain and beef prices while their fuel and equipment costs skyrocketed. So it was "sell the land, keep 20 acres or so of the original homestead and move off to small manfacturing plants in Steinbach or other work in Winnipeg. Are they bitter? No, more like resigned to their fate. Kinda sad though to think about the family history of settling in the post war era, clearing land for years, never really prospering but doing well enough to not have to worry, and then when they're approaching retirement having to sell it all because the kids were all gone. It's a very different and quiet countryside now.
As for blaming one government over another....This happened regardless of who governed, NDP or Conservatives. Governments don't direct economic forces, we do, consumers. We also want more for less.
