#1Nov 14th, 2010
Love these parodies.
Brian Burke
#2
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 14th, 2010
Ahhhhh! Where would the Leafs be if not for Brian Burke?
No doubt higher in the standings...
No doubt higher in the standings...
#3
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 14th, 2010
I think he's done reasonable well with what he has to work with. It's almost an impossible position when you have ownership that doesn't care about winning.... look at Chicago until old man Wirtz died
#4
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 14th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
Yeah, but we're stuck with the current ownership for a very, very long time...I think he's done reasonable well with what he has to work with. It's almost an impossible position when you have ownership that doesn't care about winning.... look at Chicago until old man Wirtz died
#5
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 14th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshiv
WE're stuck? GOOD GAWD MAN!!!! Don't tell me you're a Leaves fan. I may have to reconsider adding you to my friends list.Yeah, but we're stuck with the current ownership for a very, very long time...
#6
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 14th, 2010
Don't make excuses for Burke.
Burke acquisition looks good.
Burke acquisition looks good.
YouTube - Tia Carrere - Toronto Maple Leafs
#7
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010
Wilson's time is getting short and Burke knows it.
Given the personal issues Burke has had lately it's a wonder he hasn't had a heart attack or something similar-he is One Tough Cookie.
Given the personal issues Burke has had lately it's a wonder he hasn't had a heart attack or something similar-he is One Tough Cookie.
#8
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010
[QUOTE=bill barilko;1348624]Wilson's time is getting short and Burke knows it.
he has left himself without a first round draft pick for 2 years, poor managing.
he hired a misersble sarcastic coach, who is allready past his shelf life, and the players
obviously can't stand him.
again poor managing, in just two short years.
he admitted in an interview the other day, he shouldn't get a passing grade for what he has
done since he arrived in toronto, what else could he say, at least he didn't blame anyone else,
but then, who is there other than him.
the first thing gillis did when he became canuck g.m., is put a stop to trading away draft picks,
or trading away top prospects, he has done that, he is moving in the right direction.
he has left himself without a first round draft pick for 2 years, poor managing.
he hired a misersble sarcastic coach, who is allready past his shelf life, and the players
obviously can't stand him.
again poor managing, in just two short years.
he admitted in an interview the other day, he shouldn't get a passing grade for what he has
done since he arrived in toronto, what else could he say, at least he didn't blame anyone else,
but then, who is there other than him.
the first thing gillis did when he became canuck g.m., is put a stop to trading away draft picks,
or trading away top prospects, he has done that, he is moving in the right direction.
#9
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010
OK, I hate the Maple Laughs but trying to be objective, I don't think Burke has done all that bad, considering the mess they were in when he got there.
The Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf deals give him some superstar talent to guild a team around, which considering Toronto's draft history, isn't a bad trade off for no 1st rounders for the next couple years. I do agree that generally speaking, you have to build through the draft more than trades and free agency but these were deals for YOUNG & proven commodities.That the Leafs haven't been able to build more shows what a sorry state of affairs things were in and how bare the cupboards were before Burke got there.
As for Ron Wilson, I think he can be successful with a decent team of older guys who know whats going on but he doesn't seem the right temperment to teach a bunch of young kids, which is what Toronto will have to do if they ever want to climb out of the cellar.
The Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf deals give him some superstar talent to guild a team around, which considering Toronto's draft history, isn't a bad trade off for no 1st rounders for the next couple years. I do agree that generally speaking, you have to build through the draft more than trades and free agency but these were deals for YOUNG & proven commodities.That the Leafs haven't been able to build more shows what a sorry state of affairs things were in and how bare the cupboards were before Burke got there.
As for Ron Wilson, I think he can be successful with a decent team of older guys who know whats going on but he doesn't seem the right temperment to teach a bunch of young kids, which is what Toronto will have to do if they ever want to climb out of the cellar.
#10
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68
And that's worked out well so far.The Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf deals give him some superstar talent to guild a team around, .
#11
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010
I don't consider pheneuf a super star, or kessel for that matter, they are just a little
better than many of their other players.
phaneuf started his career in calgary like a house on fire, but the fire went out, and
phaneuf wasn't a stand out on the team any more, he is pretty good offensively, skates well,
but as a defenceman isn't any better than any other middle of the road player.
kessel can put the puck in the net, if he is in the area, but not a complete player, and seems
hot and cold.
better than many of their other players.
phaneuf started his career in calgary like a house on fire, but the fire went out, and
phaneuf wasn't a stand out on the team any more, he is pretty good offensively, skates well,
but as a defenceman isn't any better than any other middle of the road player.
kessel can put the puck in the net, if he is in the area, but not a complete player, and seems
hot and cold.
#12
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
Do you consider the Sedin's to be stars?I don't consider pheneuf a super star, or kessel for that matter, they are just a little
better than many of their other players.
Lets compare some numbers...
Daniel's first seasons in the NHL
2000-01 75 games played 20 goals 14 assists for 34 pts
2001-02 79 games played 9 goals 23 assists for 32 pts
2002-03 79 games played 14 goals 17 assists for 31 pts
2003-04 82 games played 18 goals 36 assists for 54 pts
Henrik
2000-01 82 games played 9 goals 20 assists for 29 pts
2001-02 82 games played 16 goals 20assists for 36 pts
2002-03 78 games played 8 goals 31 assists for 39 pts
2003-04 76 games played 11goals 31 assists for 42 pts
Phil Kessel
2006-07 70 games played 11 goals 18 assists for 29 pts
2007-08 82 games played 19 goals 18 assists for 37 pts
2008-09 70 games played 36 goals 24 assists for 60 pts
2009-10 70 games played 30 goals 25 assists for 55 pts
When you compare their first 4 years as an NHLer, I'd take 23 yr old Kessel. He's got a lot better touch around the net and producing more on arguably poorer teams. And anyone who can pot 30 goals in back to back seasons is a star, not just a touch above average. Phaneuf did lose his shine in Calgary but last year, was his worst production at 32 pts as a defenseman. That may not be quite superstar but at over a point every 2 games in his career, coupled with his physical play and speed, he's definately a top 2 or 3 D-man on most teams in the league.
Now Burke hasn't done much else thus far to build the Burnt Leafs but those two players are the real deal, no matter how Mickey Mouse the organization they suit up for.
Last edited by wulfie68; Nov 15th, 2010 at 01:58 PM..Reason: formating
#13
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68
Everybody loses their shine in Calgary. If you were to write a list of players that dropped off when arriving in Calgary or took off after leaving Calgary, you might have to stop half way through and refill yer ink cartridge. Amonte, Bouwmeester, Hull, Jokinen, Leeman, Drury, Savard, St Louis.....Phaneuf did lose his shine in Calgary but ...
#14
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010
[QUOTE=wulfie68;1348745]Do you consider the Sedin's to be stars?
history of stats means nothing to me, what has been done in past couple
of years is meaningful.
gee, wonder what they all did in bantom.
history of stats means nothing to me, what has been done in past couple
of years is meaningful.
gee, wonder what they all did in bantom.
#15
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
So I guess using your logic then, the Sedin sisters are both better than Gretzky because, after all, history of stats means nothing to you.
history of stats means nothing to me, what has been done in past couple
of years is meaningful.
.
Last edited by Cannuck; Nov 15th, 2010 at 06:06 PM..
#16
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
players must be responsible for their own success or demise, and not blame others. coaches shouldn'tEverybody loses their shine in Calgary. If you were to write a list of players that dropped off when arriving in Calgary or took off after leaving Calgary, you might have to stop half way through and refill yer ink cartridge. Amonte, Bouwmeester, Hull, Jokinen, Leeman, Drury, Savard, St Louis.....
have to motivate players, they didn't get to the NHL because someone else had to motivate them, it's
a hard long road to make the NHL, most don't make it, and those who do, earned it, then they have to
make sure they stay there, as there are lots of players just itching to take their places, and many
do.
Boumeester for one played in the south east, weak division for a long time, now he has to deal with
the faster conference, and he must adjust and get better, if not he is proving that he just wasn't
good enough, for the west.
some of those players who mention was years and years ago, much different team then, much better team
then. I'm not a jokinen fan at all, he is kind of streaky. Couldn't understand why they wanted him back,
another player from the south west division.
St. Louis left calgary when he was very very young, how could they have hurt his game, the mistake they
made was not keeping him.
You generalize so much, and give inaccurate info, stats that do not apply to 'this season' or even recent.
#17
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
Spoken like somebody who has never played the game (let alone at a high level)players must be responsible for their own success or demise, and not blame others. coaches shouldn't
have to motivate players, they didn't get to the NHL because someone else had to motivate them, it's
a hard long road to make the NHL, most don't make it, and those who do, earned it, then they have to
make sure they stay there, as there are lots of players just itching to take their places, and many
do.
#18
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010
[QUOTE=talloola;1348798]
The point I was making is that, statistically, Kessel is playing at a higher level at this point in his much younger career than either of the Sedins. In the past couple years he has outscored them, as Henrik, has never broke 30 goals in the NHL. And further to that, when you compare his production to the crapshoot that is drafting 18 yr olds and trying to project who they will become, acquiring Kessel looks that much better.
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68
Do you consider the Sedin's to be stars?
history of stats means nothing to me, what has been done in past couple
of years is meaningful.
gee, wonder what they all did in bantom.
The point I was making is that, statistically, Kessel is playing at a higher level at this point in his much younger career than either of the Sedins. In the past couple years he has outscored them, as Henrik, has never broke 30 goals in the NHL. And further to that, when you compare his production to the crapshoot that is drafting 18 yr olds and trying to project who they will become, acquiring Kessel looks that much better.
#19
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010
henrik sedin 2009-10
goals - 29
assists- 83
points - 112
plus/minus 35
games played - 82
daniel sedin 2009-10
goals - 29
assists - 56
points - 85
plus/minus 36
games played - 63
a player is evaluated by his complete game not just goals
when the sedins arrived from sweden, it took them a few seasons to catch up to
the north american game, but they did.
they were not great skaters at a young age, but worked their butts off and
improved that aspect of their game.
they are great players at both ends of the ice, which vineault demands, and any
player who doesn't play a two way game, won't be playing, period, hence, ballard
at the moment, who seems to be out of condition, and won't play till he brings
that part of his game up to standards.
goals - 29
assists- 83
points - 112
plus/minus 35
games played - 82
daniel sedin 2009-10
goals - 29
assists - 56
points - 85
plus/minus 36
games played - 63
a player is evaluated by his complete game not just goals
when the sedins arrived from sweden, it took them a few seasons to catch up to
the north american game, but they did.
they were not great skaters at a young age, but worked their butts off and
improved that aspect of their game.
they are great players at both ends of the ice, which vineault demands, and any
player who doesn't play a two way game, won't be playing, period, hence, ballard
at the moment, who seems to be out of condition, and won't play till he brings
that part of his game up to standards.
Last edited by talloola; Nov 15th, 2010 at 11:17 PM..
#20
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 15th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68
If you look at Phil, Henry and Danny over their first 300 NHL games, Kessel is the better player. If you expand that and look at their playoff production, there really is no contest as Kessel out-performed both when it matters. Point production aside, he is a much more complete player than either of the Sedins
The point I was making is that, statistically, Kessel is playing at a higher level at this point in his much younger career than either of the Sedins. In the past couple years he has outscored them, as Henrik, has never broke 30 goals in the NHL. And further to that, when you compare his production to the crapshoot that is drafting 18 yr olds and trying to project who they will become, acquiring Kessel looks that much better.
#21
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
we'll have to agree to disagree, point production can't be put aside.If you look at Phil, Henry and Danny over their first 300 NHL games, Kessel is the better player. If you expand that and look at their playoff production, there really is no contest as Kessel out-performed both when it matters. Point production aside, he is a much more complete player than either of the Sedins
#22
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
And this is where I think you are mistaken, just ask Mike Gartner. The Sedins, unless they play another 10 years and have phenomenal decades will never be Hall of Fame material, unless somehow Vancouver can actually find a way to win in the post season, with them being big factors. Kessel has the opportunity to develop into an HoF player, in the right circumstance, and has shown that potential at an earlier age than the Sedins. He may not do it unless he can find a centre to play with (he looked good with Savard in Boston but in Toronto he's got no one and may not have anyone for a while) and there are other things that could come into play but the possibility exists.point production can't be put aside.
#23
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68
yeah, without savard he took a dive, no different than many players over the years, who didAnd this is where I think you are mistaken, just ask Mike Gartner. The Sedins, unless they play another 10 years and have phenomenal decades will never be Hall of Fame material, unless somehow Vancouver can actually find a way to win in the post season, with them being big factors. Kessel has the opportunity to develop into an HoF player, in the right circumstance, and has shown that potential at an earlier age than the Sedins. He may not do it unless he can find a centre to play with (he looked good with Savard in Boston but in Toronto he's got no one and may not have anyone for a while) and there are other things that could come into play but the possibility exists.
so well with certain teamates, but needed them to make a difference.
henrk's strength last year for the choice of the art ross, was his ability to produce
without his brother for a long time, while danny was injured.
we all wondered how that would play out, and it was a pleasant surprise, not only to all of us
but probably to him as well, as he changed his game from the set up guy, to the scorer, and
set up guy for others.
the hall of fame is a bit of a joke anyway, lots of players there who shouldn't be,
and lots who should be, who aren't, I don't take it that serious, and as long as we
remember those who were deserving and aren't there, it really doesn't matter, I don't
guage much from those choices, far too mixed up and confusing, depends who's choosing at
particular times as well.
If one player doesn't get 50% of the vote on the first vote he is thrown out, then they
continue on with remainder of choices.
#24
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010
I had a feeling Burke and Wilson wouldn't work out... because they are both Americans (okay, officially with 'dual' citizenship).. but any Canadian who takes out American citizenship is really an American.. and will be cheering the U.S. team when the two meet (and in this case managing and coaching them as well). The next management team the Leafs take, should be all Canadian. Somehow its just how these things work out.
It's time we banned dual citizenship, anyway. No divided loyalties allowed.
It's time we banned dual citizenship, anyway. No divided loyalties allowed.
#25
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
It's in the supporters of the Sedin sisters benefit to put point production aside since it has been shown that Kessel has 40 -50 more points in his first 300 games than either of the twins. He is a better player without considering point production....take points into account and there really is no argument to be made for either over Kessel.we'll have to agree to disagree, point production can't be put aside.
#26
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
agree to disagree - again, want the last word ?- go for itIt's in the supporters of the Sedin sisters benefit to put point production aside since it has been shown that Kessel has 40 -50 more points in his first 300 games than either of the twins. He is a better player without considering point production....take points into account and there really is no argument to be made for either over Kessel.
#27
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by talloola
Wanting the last word would mean wanting the thread to end. I don't want that. If you aren't interested in discussion, go to another thread.agree to disagree - again, want the last word ?- go for it
#28
Re: Brian Burke
Nov 16th, 2010Quote: Originally Posted by Cannuck
my discussions will continue with whom I want, nothing to do with your suggestions, there are manyWanting the last word would mean wanting the thread to end. I don't want that. If you aren't interested in discussion, go to another thread.
good fans here to chat with about canucks or any other team, we wish to discuss.
when you are gone from this thread it will continue on for the duration of the hockey season, just as
it has come this far without you.
you are not particularly knowledgeable at all, just bossy.
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