Brian Burke

shadowshiv

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May 29, 2007
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Ahhhhh! Where would the Leafs be if not for Brian Burke?

No doubt higher in the standings...
 

Cannuck

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I think he's done reasonable well with what he has to work with. It's almost an impossible position when you have ownership that doesn't care about winning.... look at Chicago until old man Wirtz died
 

shadowshiv

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May 29, 2007
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I think he's done reasonable well with what he has to work with. It's almost an impossible position when you have ownership that doesn't care about winning.... look at Chicago until old man Wirtz died

Yeah, but we're stuck with the current ownership for a very, very long time...
 

bill barilko

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Mar 4, 2009
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Wilson's time is getting short and Burke knows it.

Given the personal issues Burke has had lately it's a wonder he hasn't had a heart attack or something similar-he is One Tough Cookie.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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Wilson's time is getting short and Burke knows it.



he has left himself without a first round draft pick for 2 years, poor managing.

he hired a misersble sarcastic coach, who is allready past his shelf life, and the players
obviously can't stand him.

again poor managing, in just two short years.

he admitted in an interview the other day, he shouldn't get a passing grade for what he has
done since he arrived in toronto, what else could he say, at least he didn't blame anyone else,
but then, who is there other than him.

the first thing gillis did when he became canuck g.m., is put a stop to trading away draft picks,
or trading away top prospects, he has done that, he is moving in the right direction.
 

wulfie68

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Mar 29, 2009
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OK, I hate the Maple Laughs but trying to be objective, I don't think Burke has done all that bad, considering the mess they were in when he got there.

The Phil Kessel and Dion Phaneuf deals give him some superstar talent to guild a team around, which considering Toronto's draft history, isn't a bad trade off for no 1st rounders for the next couple years. I do agree that generally speaking, you have to build through the draft more than trades and free agency but these were deals for YOUNG & proven commodities.That the Leafs haven't been able to build more shows what a sorry state of affairs things were in and how bare the cupboards were before Burke got there.

As for Ron Wilson, I think he can be successful with a decent team of older guys who know whats going on but he doesn't seem the right temperment to teach a bunch of young kids, which is what Toronto will have to do if they ever want to climb out of the cellar.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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I don't consider pheneuf a super star, or kessel for that matter, they are just a little
better than many of their other players.

phaneuf started his career in calgary like a house on fire, but the fire went out, and
phaneuf wasn't a stand out on the team any more, he is pretty good offensively, skates well,
but as a defenceman isn't any better than any other middle of the road player.

kessel can put the puck in the net, if he is in the area, but not a complete player, and seems
hot and cold.
 

wulfie68

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I don't consider pheneuf a super star, or kessel for that matter, they are just a little
better than many of their other players.

Do you consider the Sedin's to be stars?

Lets compare some numbers...

Daniel's first seasons in the NHL

2000-01 75 games played 20 goals 14 assists for 34 pts
2001-02 79 games played 9 goals 23 assists for 32 pts
2002-03 79 games played 14 goals 17 assists for 31 pts
2003-04 82 games played 18 goals 36 assists for 54 pts


Henrik

2000-01 82 games played 9 goals 20 assists for 29 pts
2001-02 82 games played 16 goals 20assists for 36 pts
2002-03 78 games played 8 goals 31 assists for 39 pts
2003-04 76 games played 11goals 31 assists for 42 pts

Phil Kessel

2006-07 70 games played 11 goals 18 assists for 29 pts
2007-08 82 games played 19 goals 18 assists for 37 pts
2008-09 70 games played 36 goals 24 assists for 60 pts
2009-10 70 games played 30 goals 25 assists for 55 pts


When you compare their first 4 years as an NHLer, I'd take 23 yr old Kessel. He's got a lot better touch around the net and producing more on arguably poorer teams. And anyone who can pot 30 goals in back to back seasons is a star, not just a touch above average. Phaneuf did lose his shine in Calgary but last year, was his worst production at 32 pts as a defenseman. That may not be quite superstar but at over a point every 2 games in his career, coupled with his physical play and speed, he's definately a top 2 or 3 D-man on most teams in the league.

Now Burke hasn't done much else thus far to build the Burnt Leafs but those two players are the real deal, no matter how Mickey Mouse the organization they suit up for.
 
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Cannuck

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Phaneuf did lose his shine in Calgary but ...
Everybody loses their shine in Calgary. If you were to write a list of players that dropped off when arriving in Calgary or took off after leaving Calgary, you might have to stop half way through and refill yer ink cartridge. Amonte, Bouwmeester, Hull, Jokinen, Leeman, Drury, Savard, St Louis.....
 

Cannuck

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history of stats means nothing to me, what has been done in past couple
of years is meaningful.

.

So I guess using your logic then, the Sedin sisters are both better than Gretzky because, after all, history of stats means nothing to you.
 
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talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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Everybody loses their shine in Calgary. If you were to write a list of players that dropped off when arriving in Calgary or took off after leaving Calgary, you might have to stop half way through and refill yer ink cartridge. Amonte, Bouwmeester, Hull, Jokinen, Leeman, Drury, Savard, St Louis.....

players must be responsible for their own success or demise, and not blame others. coaches shouldn't
have to motivate players, they didn't get to the NHL because someone else had to motivate them, it's
a hard long road to make the NHL, most don't make it, and those who do, earned it, then they have to
make sure they stay there, as there are lots of players just itching to take their places, and many
do.

Boumeester for one played in the south east, weak division for a long time, now he has to deal with
the faster conference, and he must adjust and get better, if not he is proving that he just wasn't
good enough, for the west.

some of those players who mention was years and years ago, much different team then, much better team
then. I'm not a jokinen fan at all, he is kind of streaky. Couldn't understand why they wanted him back,
another player from the south west division.
St. Louis left calgary when he was very very young, how could they have hurt his game, the mistake they
made was not keeping him.
You generalize so much, and give inaccurate info, stats that do not apply to 'this season' or even recent.
 

Cannuck

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players must be responsible for their own success or demise, and not blame others. coaches shouldn't
have to motivate players, they didn't get to the NHL because someone else had to motivate them, it's
a hard long road to make the NHL, most don't make it, and those who do, earned it, then they have to
make sure they stay there, as there are lots of players just itching to take their places, and many
do.

Spoken like somebody who has never played the game (let alone at a high level)
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
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Do you consider the Sedin's to be stars?

history of stats means nothing to me, what has been done in past couple
of years is meaningful.

gee, wonder what they all did in bantom.


The point I was making is that, statistically, Kessel is playing at a higher level at this point in his much younger career than either of the Sedins. In the past couple years he has outscored them, as Henrik, has never broke 30 goals in the NHL. And further to that, when you compare his production to the crapshoot that is drafting 18 yr olds and trying to project who they will become, acquiring Kessel looks that much better.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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henrik sedin 2009-10
goals - 29
assists- 83
points - 112
plus/minus 35
games played - 82

daniel sedin 2009-10
goals - 29
assists - 56
points - 85
plus/minus 36
games played - 63

a player is evaluated by his complete game not just goals

when the sedins arrived from sweden, it took them a few seasons to catch up to
the north american game, but they did.
they were not great skaters at a young age, but worked their butts off and
improved that aspect of their game.
they are great players at both ends of the ice, which vineault demands, and any
player who doesn't play a two way game, won't be playing, period, hence, ballard
at the moment, who seems to be out of condition, and won't play till he brings
that part of his game up to standards.
 
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Cannuck

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The point I was making is that, statistically, Kessel is playing at a higher level at this point in his much younger career than either of the Sedins. In the past couple years he has outscored them, as Henrik, has never broke 30 goals in the NHL. And further to that, when you compare his production to the crapshoot that is drafting 18 yr olds and trying to project who they will become, acquiring Kessel looks that much better.

If you look at Phil, Henry and Danny over their first 300 NHL games, Kessel is the better player. If you expand that and look at their playoff production, there really is no contest as Kessel out-performed both when it matters. Point production aside, he is a much more complete player than either of the Sedins