black hawks will never forget sam gagne for the rest of their careers, 4 goals, 4 assists against them last night.
An outstanding achievement!
when he states that the teams are left to police themselves, he is completely wrong.
The instigator rule prevents teams from having enforcers (goons) to skate around like bodyguards, just to fight when they see their own certain players being bodychecked.
I also don't believe that the game is left unprotected, I see lots of improvement over the last few years, and with shanahan it has taken another step forward to initiate severe suspensions for severe infractions.
Concussions are being addressed
I don't believe players milk anything, they want to be on the ice, they want to play, because they know that if they are out of the lineup too long, someone else will take their place.
Colin Campbell is a player from the past, not the present, shanahan is a player from the present, and in my opinion we all should stay in the present and not dwell on what happened to players long ago that is gone nothing anyone can do about that now, but we can concentrate on what is happening now, and I see progress.
As far as the fighting goes, that is a separate issue concerning violence, (apart from head shots when body checking etc.)
I am real tired of constantly reading about what people 'away' from the game 'who dislike and disagree with how the game is played, and don't go to games, seem to have all of the sarcastic answers, and make statements of how hockey people and fans
think, but in reality they know next to nothing about the game and the players.
I have stated before that I hate the planned fights, they should get rid of those.
As far as the spontaneous fights, I will just leave that to the players, players association, and the NHL, as they are the ones involved, and they have to figure it out.
I still don't see the concussions coming from fights, of course that can happen
but on the whole the concussions come from illegal bodychecing. I see the concussions coming from head shots during the game, as illegal bodychecks.
The players accept and deal with fighting very easily
they seem to use fighting for different outcomes. They settle built up emotions with a fight, when things have risen to the frenzy state, and all of a sudden a fight breaks out, and all of a sudden it is over, and all of a sudden, everything settles down.
A player will start up a fight when his team has not risen to the occasion to match the intensity of the other team, a fight seems to wake them up, get them going, and they have stated as much on occasion.
A fight will energize the team, they feed off of it, they appreciate their player who puts himself on the line, and drops his gloves and squares off with another player.
As much as many outside the game hate the fighting, when one would look inside the game, and watch the men who actually play the game, including the coaches and managers, they seem to enjoy the intensity and the energy of a fight.
I do understand the outsider feeling of the goons of the past, they really could not blend with the rest of the team on an equal basis, they weren't equal, and they would know they were only there for their goon play, and to create havoc by fighting. Those players are not in the game any longer, the tough players who also fight can also play, so they do feel equal, they are equal, they can play, they can feel like a contributor to the game, so that aspect is 'gone' from the game.
Players who are goons are few and far between now, so that is improvement too, the goons couldn't play the game, but they would fight, be institgators etc.
I would like to hear the people who play the game, shanahan, who is in charge of diciplinary decisions,and others talk about fighting, and hear their input,
but if fighting was eliminated, very few people would stay home, there isn't enough fighting in the game to cause people to pay the money they do, to come to games.
I really am not interested in reading a book that deals with the past, I am concentrating on the 'now' and watching and seeing progress. A player who writes a book, who was a goon player, obviously has some issues, well that is the past, it is gone, lets deal with the here and the now.
Hockey is a tough mans game
even the so called gentlemen players are tough guys, no one could play this game who aren't mentally and physically tough, and is certainly not for those who hate to see body checking and players being hit and falling and bouncing off the boards, it is a rough game, a fast game, a game on skates which makes it rather dangerous, they carry sticks which cause some high sticking, but I see the high sticking as 'accidental' in the game now, long ago there was stick swinging incidents and intentional high sticking, don't see that any more.
I notice much improvement and progress since the change in the diciplinary process, and also much attention is being payed to the information about concussions, and that is also being addressed by the league, and that is an ongoing process.
I also see very clearly how much faster and bigger the players are now compared to years ago, and can also see how that creates a much bigger impact when they hit each other, the speed creates all of that, hence more injuries.
It is very easy to figure out why many of the critics can't see what I see, as they don't watch the games, they just bitch about them without keeping up with the times.
Those who write about the game as 'all' violent and say it should stop, must stipulate exactly what parts of the game they are opposed to, so those areas can be discussed separate, and not just put everything together as though the whole game is violent.
One aspect of the game that needs a big improvement is the 'officiating', the game is so fast now, that they miss lots of infractions, not anything horrible, but enough to see how teams suffer under poor officiating, too many calls are missed,and too many are called wrong.
He doesn't state that the teams police themselves, talloola. He states that the players are left to police themselves as is evidenced by by the fact that there are still players in the NHL, call them what you like, who are the designated 'fighters' on the team and who are given the job of 'taking care' of certain opponents.
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It may prevent players from having 'body guards' as such but you and I both know players whose only job is to cause as much trouble as they can and they get away with it time after time with barely a slap on the wrist. I am sure you could quickly name a few of them.
I agree, talloola. It is not the game left unprotected, rather it is the players. At this time, the penalties and punishments handed out by both referees, who are just as befuddled as the players, and the league are so unevenly distributed as to leave both parties in a quandary. As former referee Kerry Fraser states: “The officials are so confused, they don't know what is or isn't' a penalty. That's just the reality of it."
They are tallola but what about the reasons behind them. Why do players get concussions? Is there anything that can be done to prevent them from happening?
I completely agree, talloola.
Last month Dion Phaneuf was voted the "most over-rated" player in a similar poll... these guys sure don't like the Leafs
'These guys' being the NHL players, so you have to think there's some validity to it.
I heard that Nash was willing to move too, but he's also the type of guy that it is going to be very costly to get. I just hope he doesn't end up with the Rangers (where careers die) or Montreal (where non-francophone careers die). I hear some murmurs out of Cannucknuckleheadville about a Luongo for Nash swap but I can't see that being enough for Nash, at this point: Mason is already a decent goaltender but the rest of the team in front of him has gaping holes).
I also laughed when I heard about the new Sports Illustrated NHL player poll, talking about the all star players that are the easiest to get off their game/intimidate. --
1. Phil Kessel
2. The Sedins
3 Alexander Semin
4. Patrick Kane
5. Ilya Kovalchuk
The top goaltenders to get rattled were Luongo and Mike Smith. This is all pretty subjective (and a lot of BS in some cases) but I thought it was interesting. Last month Dion Phaneuf was voted the "most over-rated" player in a similar poll... these guys sure don't like the Leafs
Looks like the Rangers and Red Wings are good for the final; both are hot and solid.
He doesn't state that the teams police themselves, talloola. He states that the players are left to police themselves as is evidenced by by the fact that there are still players in the NHL, call them what you like, who are the designated 'fighters' on the team and who are given the job of 'taking care' of certain opponents.
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It may prevent players from having 'body guards' as such but you and I both know players whose only job is to cause as much trouble as they can and they get away with it time after time with barely a slap on the wrist. I am sure you could quickly name a few of them.
I agree, talloola. It is not the game left unprotected, rather it is the players. At this time, the penalties and punishments handed out by both referees, who are just as befuddled as the players, and the league are so unevenly distributed as to leave both parties in a quandary. As former referee Kerry Fraser states: “The officials are so confused, they don't know what is or isn't' a penalty. That's just the reality of it."
They are tallola but what about the reasons behind them. Why do players get concussions? Is there anything that can be done to prevent them from happening?
I completely agree, talloola.
There has been progress, talloola and I don’t advocate ‘dwelling’ on the past either. However, there are times that the past catches up with us and we are forced to look back as will happen this...
yeah, that poll is dumb, and being anonymous makes it null and void, and it isn't accurate anyway.
I can speak for the sedins quite accurately, nothing intimidates them, and they are afraid of nothing.
Pretty much right on schedule, and exactly what I was expecting.
You can speak for the Sedins?
Wow. That explains everything - you're their official spokesperson.
I did not speak 'for' the sedin's, I spoke my opinion about them, as hockey players.
I just have to add, that when mat cooke was doing mean things to other players,several times, (mark sevard had to retire because of concussion), I notice mario lemieux did nothing to him, or said nothing about him, as his owner, and he only stopped playing later, when he was finally suspended after new rulings were introduced, but lemieux did come out and complain about 'other' instances with 'other' teams.
A couple of the penguin players openly criticized cooke at the time.
I agree that Mario should have done something about Cooke much earlier, talloola. For the blind-side hit on Marc Savard, Cooke was neither given a penalty nor was there any follow-up suspension - something that might have prevented him from going on to make the knee-to-knee hit on Ovechkin and the check from behind that sent Fedor Tyutin into the boards headfirst during the 2010/11 season. The fact that both hits did not result in serious injury was pure happenstance. Cooke didn't receive any penalty for the Ovechkin hit but he was suspended for 4 games after the Tyutin hit but that wasn't enough to get the message across as he later came from center ice during a game with the NY Rangers to deliver an elbow to the head of Ryan McDonagh. The latter hit happened shortly after the GM's and Bettman had met to discuss plans for addressing the problem of concussions. During that meeting, Mario suggested that fines be levied for teams that employed 'dangerous players' but it wasn't until the public outcry against Cooke's behavior that he finally stood by his earlier words and applauded the NHL after they suspended Cooke for the remaining 10 games of the regular 2010/11 season and the first round of play-offs. Since then, Mario has been outspoken about the need to address dangerous plays and players, and for that I heartily applaud him.
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You said that you spoke 'for' the Sedins.
That's what you said, don't blame me for what YOU said.
'I don't agree with the results of the poll, so therefore it's wrong.'
i've yet to read something accurate and positive and constructive from any of your posts,
you seem to live to jump all over anything, like a grumpy snagglepuss, who has disobeyed their
parent 'again', and is taking it out on somone else.
life is good, I feel it, give it a try.
yes, I agree, all of that is very accurate, and so much has improved since then, and lots of work to
be done for the future as well, but I think it is going in the right direction.
its called an opinion, my opinion is a result from watching the sedins and others for
many years.
i've yet to read something accurate and positive and constructive from any of your posts,
you seem to live to jump all over anything, like a grumpy snagglepuss, who has disobeyed their
parent 'again', and is taking it out on somone else.
life is good, I feel it, give it a try.
One more thought just occurred to me Talloola, "great minds think alike"
One more thought just occurred to me Talloola, "great minds think alike"
life is just too short to be that miserable jlm, some people just miss the brightness of the day.
good game tonight, the twins had a bit more jump, although they didn't get on the score board.
booth again flying around on those magic skates.
hodgson gave yanik a great pass for a very nice goal, and a nice empty netter for burrows.
luongo played great. and imagine canucks won in 'regulation' time, wow.
canucks 3 avalanche 1
toronto on saturday.
yes, I agree, all of that is very accurate, and so much has improved since then, and lots of work to
be done for the future as well, but I think it is going in the right direction.
Sounds like I missed a good one- I was needed on the bowling team!
I think things are definitely going in the right direction, talloola and the NHL directive over-turning the penalty on LaPierre is further proof of that. I have a feeling that when Bettman and the GMs get together this time we just might see some rulings with real meat in them - something the refs can call clearly and cleanly instead of the way things are right now where you see them calling a penalty on one guy while letting another go for the very same cause.
Ah! A Cialis night for one of your buds??? LOL! Sorry, JLM, that remark just reminded me so much of their commercials.
yeah, that poll is dumb, and being anonymous makes it null and void, and it isn't accurate anyway.
I can speak for the sedins quite accurately, nothing intimidates them, and they are afraid of nothing.
Don't know about kessel, but he is a great goal scorer,a quick thinker on the ice, and a gamer, and I would have him on my team any day.
Semin is lazy, I have noticed that.
Kane is just small, but very talented, so he has to play the game that many small players have to play, so he doesn't get squished on every shift.
I don't think any NHL player is scared or easily intimidated, just being in the NHL proves that to me, or they never would have made it that far to begin with,probably not even to major junior.
I just have to add, that when mat cooke was doing mean things to other players,several times, (mark sevard had to retire because of concussion), I notice mario lemieux did nothing to him, or said nothing about him, as his owner, and he only stopped playing later, when he was finally suspended after new rulings were introduced, but lemieux did come out and complain about 'other' instances with 'other' teams.
A couple of the penguin players openly criticized cooke at the time.
He belonged on this list when he was in Atlanta, but I don't think so in New Jersey: he has been a lot different player in the Swamp.
I don't think they are "easily" intimidated but some people always have more mental toughness than others and hockey players are no exception. Compared to the guy on the street, they may be above average, but this is a measuring among their peers.
That is false. Mario DID publicly complain about other teams (notably my Islanders after the one game here in Pittsburgh that was filled with fights and nastiness)but he also called out Cooke in the Pittsburgh media. I think Cooke was told "clean it up or you won't be back here" because the entire organization was fed up with his actions which hurt the team on the ice and reflected badly on the entire franchise. Mario's opinion carries a LOT of weight around here, as an ownership partner but also as the man who really gave an identity and respectability to the Penguins franchise, and the players are all well aware of this or they are gone.
That is false. Mario DID publicly complain about other teams (notably my Islanders after the one game here in Pittsburgh that was filled with fights and nastiness)but he also called out Cooke in the Pittsburgh media. I think Cooke was told "clean it up or you won't be back here" because the entire organization was fed up with his actions which hurt the team on the ice and reflected badly on the entire franchise. Mario's opinion carries a LOT of weight around here, as an ownership partner but also as the man who really gave an identity and respectability to the Penguins franchise, and the players are all well aware of this or they are gone.